Ron

I did 5 SL's I have put out MANY students that only took 5. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you would rather not let me win an argument that tell the truth. I tell ya....You had better be an advaced canopy pilot with that 1.5...Or we WILL be reading about you here as well. Now I think you take a good approach to canopy flight, but you had better have your shit together or you WILL get broken. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you are just going to blindly listen to him? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would have pounded in with the 113 if I didn't get speed built up...Same thing for my short lined 126. This has to do with the design of the canopy. I am glad you are happy with your canopy's.... I don't think you are in danger, but just because you are comfertable with them does not make them safe. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well if they are hard to land...Which BTW I had a 113 loaded at 1.59 I had no problem landing...Had to hook it, but no problem...Then maybe they are accurate? For the Specter..I don't know. I only have two jumps on the Specter...But it did dive harder than my Stiletto. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

John...we have been down this road before....you don't give a new pilot an F-16. To fly complex you need more training, and you need to PROVE you can handle it...Same thing here. If he were under a 1.2 WL I doubt he would have been as fucked up...if he was hurt at all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about you ask...I already have..Let me know what they say. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you have come to this based on 108 jumps? I think they are very reasonable. Can they be exceded? Yes. But I have found a Stiletto to start to loose performance right at 1.7...Right where PD says it will.... Funny huh? The people that make the canopies having a clue as to how they should be flown? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Now you and I have talked before...I don't think you are a crater looking for a spot to happen. But, you see how I can say that most people think they are advanced? You are going to a 1.5 here soon. I would venture to say that a 1.5 at 400 jumps is Advanced...Hell I have almost 3,000 jumps and Im at 1.68...which just happens to be the MAX listed for the Stiletto. Of course I got that size canopy at 700 jumps I think. Not a slam...just a statement based on observations...Which you seem to fit into. And thats not saying I expect to see you listed in Incidents...I don't...But there are plenty of people in that same position I do expect to see listed.. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never said that. I said Advanced....And most people who I know with 200 jumps consider themselves Advanced. You jump a SABRE 2 170 right? at a 1.4 I think right? PD has the Sabre 2 at Expert at 1.3 and MAX at 1.5. Am I wrong here? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh I agree. Expert is very subjective... MAX is not. But I doubt anyone would call 200 jumps even Advanced. (except people with 200 jumps) Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but 1.5 is within the limits for a Stiletto. 1.69 is listed as Max For a 135 1.2 is listed as Advanced. 1.5 is between Expert 1.4, and MAX 1.67. So 200 jumps is Expert? I don't see 200 jumps as Advanced. Do you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, but how do you tell who is an "Expert" or a "Novice"? They give listings but don't say what each level is. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually No. Mine was a test. The PRO rating to be exact. Others wanted to water it down to try to please people, which it didn't. I still stick by what I said...You want to jump outside that chart. PROVE you can handle the canopy at the wingload that the chart says you should be at, then you would be allowed to downsize one step. This is a perfect example of why just a class will not work. Ron BTW I like the sig line. "But is just a tinsy little paper thin wafer". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can I???? 200 jumps 1.5...this was fucking stupid. Everyone here knows my take on this...And this is why. When everyone bitched about regulation...And then others wanted to water it down so that people just had to take a class...This is why regulation SHOULD FUCKING HAPPEN! This kid had no buisness under a 1.5 at 200 jumps...No one does. He just came back from a class, and really fucked up.. It shows that only EXPERIENCE will teach...Classes can introduce knowledge...But you have to have the EXPERIENCE to know how to use it, and when. Im glad he is not dead. I hope he walks fine for the rest of hs life. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have seen great coaches without a SDU rating (I think I'm a good coach, and I don't have one)...And I have seen some crap coaches with a SDU rating (I know several guys with 150 jumps that have gotten them). While not always the case...It has happened. Just like there are good AFF guys and not so good AFF guys...Even though both went to the course some are better than others even with the SDU program. I would not let that alone be the factor that makes ne choose. I would go to the close one, and invest the 200 in more jumps or coaching jumps at that DZ. Or hell buy an alti or put it to your new jump suit. If the DZ is close, you will be more likley to go more, hang out longer...You can learn alot at the bar (maybe not how to pull or turn, but a lot of history and skydiving culture.) Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sparky, We have GOT to stop agreeing on things. I am getting all warm and fuzzy now. Damn! BTW its COMPLETELY (Maybe this will get us back to our relationship.) But I agree. 110 jumps you should still be thinking about not dying. When I made my 100th...I was told by a very good friend that the group now thinks I am gonna pull something before I die...It will not be the right thing, but at least I'll bounce with something pulled. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah....What do you think your reserve is? Really, A ripcord is not different that a throwout...You just try not to throw the ripcord. For the record my first parachute that opened with a ripcord was a reserve ride when I had 600 jumps... I learned static line to throwout. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Level 2 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about the amount of canopy time for the two? How about the number of exits for the two? Or how about the number of times they got geared up? Gear checks? Plane rides? Pack jobs? Just plain old time spent on the DZ watching and learning? As for freefall time lets see: AFF: 7 Levels 7 X 45= 315 seconds of freefall. SL: 5 SL = 0 1 5 second delay =5 2 10 second delays = 20 3 15 second delays = 45 3 20 second delays = 60 3 35 second delays = 105 3 45 second delays = 135 So SL = 370 seconds of Freefall. So by my math AFF =315 seconds SL= 370 seconds...On this side of the pond 370 is MORE than 315. And for the money they have more jumps, and more time under canopy, and more time at the DZ, and MORE FREEFALL TIME. AFF is faster to teach...but is faster better? Its faster...not better. There are different things that can go wrong...I would not say less. But you said AFF was SAFER....And that is not true. And I personally think that SL makes better all around students. I base this off of 10 years in the sport and seeing both SL and AFF students react in different situations....Case in point low emergency exits. And you still have yet to PROVE one point. Hell I just showed you AFF is not cheaper, and with SL you get more Freefall. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes and No. Yes: 1. I can wake up at 7:50 for an 8 AM show. 2. I can drink at the DZ bar and I don't have to drive. 3. We have DZ dinners that only the staff, and people who live on the DZ even really know about. 4. I live near a lot of my friends. 5. Cheap living (more money to jump) No: 1. I live in a trailer. 2. It is hard to cool in the summer and hard to heat in the winter. 3. I live 40 miles from work. 4. Only skydivers understand that it can be a cool thing...Try telling some wuffo that you are hitting on that you live in a trailer on a DZ in Zephyrhills. Yeah, you got a chance. So it can be good and bad.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't agree...I know people that flat pack stiletto's...John Hoover and Paul Raferty to name a few..And they both can pack faster than me. Flat packing is easy, and it builds confidence in gear to know how to pack it...I agree that most will learn to propack..But I am glad I know how to do both. As it is I Pro my sport rigs, and flat or stack my old demo gear. agree, and a lot of DZ's don't teach it any more...Here at Zhills we have rigs with throwout BOC's for students. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I live there "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I can give you contact #'s... But I have never been to an Airspeed camp, or NSL tunnel camp. I am one of the local coaches that use the tunnel. You can check out www.tunnelcamp.com www.skyleague.com For more info on the programs they have. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh good god no!!! Can't let this happen...must PW!!!! Sorry I spent my weekend at the DZ...I don't have a comuter there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334