Ron

What if...And know I know it does not seem possible, that a telescope other than NASA could do it....That was my point. The crazy's would ignore it anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK...any reason? Just too small? Has that happend? Just wondering....I love to hear people claim we never went, and I always thought that a nice pic would shut them up quick. I do not know enough to know why we could not, so just trying to understand the problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Won't work. Not a chance. Not everyone would go on strike, and even if they did most people would be moved to Tandems, PLUS the damage done to the DZ would be pretty bad. And then what? We pay the AFF "I's" a bit more and then we have to raise the cost of the AFF jumps even more. Most people when they find the cost of an instructional jump tend to think the price is already too high. We will lose even more students with an even higher price tag. That is one of the problems we as a sport are having. It costs so much that people quit, or do less. I don't think for the better. Strikes will not work well in such a low return business and if we raise prices we will just lose more people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree 100%. The USPA is more interested in DZO's than regular jumpers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Funny, I always thought I heard, "That's one small step for man....(Laughing) One....(more laughing) Giant leap for mankind (slight chuckle)." I thought it was due to him laughing about being on a soundstage in Hollywood Actually, I think we went to the moon.....But just a random question for the space nuts. If we did land on the moon, would the rover and the landers should be able to be seen with a really good telescope? (I mean REALLY good, like observatory style) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry, his reaction was to stop. His attitude about it is not the same as his action. Case in point....Years ago I had two big guys threaten to beat my ass if they saw me low pull again. I didn't low pull again, but I thought I knew what I was doing thay they were stupid. Now, I realize that they had my best interest at heart and would gladley buy them a few beers. I stopped, but that was different than admitting it was wrong. I agree the point is the events, and how he took the order to stop. The punishment I think might be harsh, but I am not involved enough to know how he reacted. I have been told that he did not admit he was wrong, but instead quit due to being pressured. I got this from a few good sources. And maybe the USPA over reacted....But since I don't know the whole story, I cannot be sure. Do you know if he got his AFF ticket pulled also? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If true, I would not agree to him getting his AFF rating pulled. Nor him getting kicked out of the USPA. While I *could* see him losing his Tandem rating. I would not agree to anything else. But, like I said, the level of "punishment" should be adjusted to how he reacted. I do not agree with his AFF ticket getting pulled if true. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Where the hell were you when I needed you? Nope, I got distracted by questions from the husband..."What color is the canopy? Where is the reserve? How many times have you done this?" It knocked me off my checklist. I just flat screwed up. No excuses from me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Depends on the severity of the crime. Some see playing with a tandem students life as quite severe. Oh, I do LIKE him, but that does not mean he automatically gets to do as he pleases anyway, anyhow, he wants. It is stupid to think that liking the guy has jackshit to do with me thinking he did something dumb. 1. I like the guy. 2. He did some dumb shit. Please reread what I asked And I said if he REALIZED he did something stupid and quit. Some have told me that he took the "I have mad skills and those posers don't know crap" angle. I don't know for sure that is how he acted, but I have had people tell me that is exactly how he acted and not one person has said he realized he was doing something stupid. Well if Jacko does start following the rules, I see no reason he cannot continue to do tandems. But you notice that the guy you mention "is in the process of getting his ratings back". So let Jacko get his ratings back. I am not exactly sure how, but I bet there is a process in place. If he, or the other guy starts pulling stupid tandem tricks again....Then yank their ratings for good. The guy that dropped a student....To be honest I am not sure I would let them get a Tandem rating again. But he would have to go through a course held by the manufacturer on how to properly adjust a harness. Jacko....Well his is not a lack of skill, so I would not make him go through retraining. I would simply reprimand him, and if I ever saw a stupid stunt like that again, yank his rating forever. His case was not lack of skill. You can teach people skills, it was lack of judgment. Not so easy to teach. And THAT IS WHY I KEEP SAYING HIS ATTITUDE IS A BIG FACTOR IN WHAT I WOULD DO. There are TONS of standards. Not one Tandem maker I know, nor the USPA, recommends the laterals to be loose, or to use the student as a pommel horse. Above education should be responsibility. You can teach people skills, and re-teach those that lack them. But if people choose to do stunts....Well you can only prevent them from being in that situation where they risk others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

BS. I think its wrong. Nope, you should get a ticket....Get enough of those and you WILL lose your license. Ah, the difference is the life you risk is only your own, not some students. Open lower and the DZO should ground you. BS, the difference is who's life you risk. I already told you that if you wanted to play student for Jacko, I wish you all the best. The difference is taking a student that pays for a safe jump and not pulling stunts. Really, you and Jacko wanna go crazy? Have a blast. Maybe finish the stunt with a tandem pond swoop. As long as it is two experienced jumpers I don't care what you do. I bet Judy would say the same. They must maintain currency requirements and attend an instructors refresher seminar...But then again this is not a case of a dangerous skydive due to an error or mistake. This is a case of a guy using a students jump to get his rocks off. It was never a question of skill, it was a question of judgment. And your "requirements" would not have prevented this anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See, now she calls me a stalker...Thats yet another attack. Is this the third grade? Feel free to have the last say on this, all you do is prove that is quite clear you can not talk without juvenile attacks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Works for me also...I have a card that pays me cash to use it. In six years they have paid me about 400 a year to use it and only once have I not paid it off every mth. (I had an expense report turned in late). For that mth I paid like 30 bucks. So I am WAY positive on the balance sheet. The Credit companies earn money from the vendors I use my cards at. Ever wonder why some DZ's charge more for credit? They pay to accept Credit cards. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See she can't *not* attack people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Save a small portion as an emergency fund. Say your car blows a tire and you need to buy one....So put about a grand aside 2. Use the rest to pay off your debt. Now here is where I diverge from many economic advisers. 3. Start a retirement plan. Most will tell you to pay off things like a car payment. Not a bad idea, but use compounding interest to help you and start putting some away for the future. The problem with waiting to start your savings until you are bad debt free is that life always happens and just when you think you are goingt o be debt free, you get into trouble or do something "money stupid" such as take a skydiving vacation, buy a new rig, or a new car or boat. So don't wait, start saving as soon as you are Credit Card debt free. Pay debts down in this order: 1. High interest CC to lower interest. Try to consolidate the debt if possible since it is much easier to pay ONE big payment than several smaller ones. 2. Car. 3. Student loans 4. House. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh it does not need to get moved...I can quit pointing out the attacks...If she can quit making them "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't agree we should hang him...Thats why several times I asked if he quit or what attitude he had about the whole issue. If he said, "Those posers don't know my mad skills, fuckem". Then I'd say pull his ratings. If he said, "I guess it was not a good idea, I'll stop". Then I would have no issue. But no one answered, all we got was folks like you defending his skills. That kinda led me to believe that you all thought it was a good idea. So now we needed the governing body to be brought in. I have no issue with Jacko if he stopped. My only issue is how some think this was a good idea and how they feel free to put a passenger into a higher risk situation and their is no way for the pass to know how much more risk is involved. Hell, we can't get the TI's to agree how much riskier it is. I would LOVE for the rig companies and the USPA to make an official stand. And that is my point...nothing against Jacko, but I want the USPA to take a stand, and then hold EVERYONE to that standard. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It took 20 years for a Tandem pass to fall out of a harness. That does not mean it could not have happend. And there are plenty more tandem jumps than tandem stunts. And I know him as well and know he is a nice guy with a ton of skill....But I don't agree he should be allowed to do those kind of stunts. Here is a neat idea....We do BOTH! If people jumped on the asses of those that ended up killing two passengers, then maybe we would have prevented those deaths. I never wanted his rating yanked...I wanted the act stopped. Which is why I asked several times if he stopped and how he took people asking him to stop. I like the guy, I don't think he should have his rating pulled...But he needs to stop doing stunts with passengers. If you want to play student for him, then you two can do whatever the hell you want. But don't do stunts with people who do not understand the added risks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If what you do is "balance" then maybe you use the same dictionary that Clinton did Before you do your standard, "You rePUBICans seem to sure hate a guy that can get a BJ...I get plenty, so thanks That goes both ways right? And just because YOU think you know something does not make it true, no matter how much you yell it, or make cool mispelled words that are really attacks on people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The one three posts up...Maybe 4 now My bad really....I should have said post, not thread. I guess I should expect to be so wrong being that my voting card says...Republican "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Never met the lady...But rumor has it that most men are...BTW read my other thread...added some Archway stuff to it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OOOHHH I forgot "chickenhawk"!!!!! Well....Uh *Micro*....You're just small man! OH, I see you jump at Archway....I did some jumps there myself. Doug Wolf and I had a CREW wrap there. Kinda funny story: The DZO asks Doug to put a Student out. The student asks what Doug and I are going to do....I respond with, "Ever see a CRW wrap?" Next thing ya know, Doug puts the student out and he and I get out on the next pass. Sure enough we build the really cool formation known as a "double half canopy spinning pinwheel". Right before I get ready to chop (I am the low guy) Doug looks at me and instead of telling me to chop asks, "Hey Ron, know any good jokes!" Well as I sit there looking stupid with eyes bigger than pie plates the canopies spin out of the wrap. We then build a two stack WAY low...Like 1200-1500 feet and then procede to hook turn the two stack. BTW, I had about 100 jumps and had no clue how dumb it was. Verner just looked at me like I was stupid when I landed smiling. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry, but those Tandem videos do not show a focus on safety. Maybe nothing has happend but that does not mean it was a good idea. Kinda like driving drunk. Sure you might get away with it, but it is still not wise. Again his JUDGEMENT was not as good as his performance. I have a few more than 500 jumps, and some would say I have a clue about skydiving instruction as well. YOU call it a misdemeanor...Others consider it a felony. The USPA, who is the governing body of the sport seems to think it was more than a misdemeanor as well. You don't need much more than that since it is clear what he was doing. Hell, I like Jacko. And if he stopped doing these "stunts" then I realy don't have an issue. But lets not pretend that just because nothing bad happend that it was a good idea. And lets not forget that all those that claimed Stong liked the stunts, Strong is quoted to the contrary. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You do exactly the same, but for the other side. Anyone that disagrees with you, you call a fascist, or NEOCON. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you think SC is crap, but BF is great? I think both have merit...And both have a place. For example you and I could not discuss my new AR15 here for very long. I think that more people should be in Safety and Training than anywhere else, but it just is not the case. And if DZ.com is supposed to represent a real world DZ...Political discussions DO take place on real DZ's....Maybe more than boobies are flashed. But the thing I find funny is that BF where people claim love, brothership, ect....They almost all seem to love to bash SC. I have learned a few things from SC...More than I have learned from BF. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't see ANY *hands*...... But I do find it interesting that people can claim that one non-skydiving related thread is great (BF), but another is crap (SC). Or that people can make claims that SC posters need to jump more, but will not make the same claim about BF. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334