Ron

Or, you could just punish the people that actually break the law as opposed to punishing EVERYONE. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But my ability to "hold a pop gun" and "win a shiny plaque" does give me MUCH more insight about firearms and firearm issues than a guy that has not... And last I checked this was a discussion about firearms and firearm issues. Everyone is allowed their own opinion... you are tying to have your own FACTS. This is a case of a guy that's never been in a plane trying to tell a 20 year 747 Captain how to do an instrument approach. Your insistence that a person with no experience or real knowledge of a subject is qualified to make policy would be the same as you supporting a whuffo making rules about freeflying. You would not want a person with zero knowledge of a subject to write aviation laws or skydiving rules.... Yet you seem to think that you are qualified on gun issues? My only mistake was to think you would ever admit you don't know something as well as someone else and to think that your ignorance of the subject would lead you to listen more than you talk. This would be like me debating shooting freefall video with you and claiming your experience means nothing. As for the subject at hand.... I see no issue with allowing guns in CHECKED baggage. I mean, hell it is allowed on airlines why not trains? For that matter, I would have no issue with a guy with a CHL/CWP to CARRY on a train. Unless there is screening as good as they have at airlines, why would you want to prevent legal citizens that have been through a background check from being armed, but not do anything to prevent a nutjob? Makes no sense..... But feel free to empower the whuffo to make freefly rules.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have an Rem 870 and a Moss 500. Both are good guns, I prefer the safety on the Moss. All you need is a plug. The gun *should* come with one. The one on the Rem was plastic, the Moss was just a dowel rod. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

BIG difference between a regulation and a BAN. Even though you are just being silly... Chemical weapons are not covered under the 2nd. But, some Chemical weapons are perfectly legal... think rat poison. Great question... why ban it? You are just being silly to be silly. It's because you don't have a logical bone to stand on. Simple fact is there are plenty of rules and laws already in place to prevent criminals from having guns.... And criminals don't pay any attention to them. The UK, which has sweeping bans on guns of all kinds, experienced 9974 gun related homicides in 2002 alone... that just goes to show criminals are not going to stop using weapons due to a ban. I guess we better ban parachutes since someone will use them to base jump "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Except that is not happening here... If you knew what you were talking about, you would understand that. What we have is some 100 jump wonder supporting another 100 jump wonder claiming to know more about skydiving than an AFF instructor. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nonsense. You want to claim that some that point out reverse discrimination are racists for pointing it out... Total BS. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I am pointing out how your point, and the logic you use to support it, is weak. The number of times a person stands up for what is right and truly fair does not make them a racist. Only racist actions make a person a racist... Pointing out discrimination in ALL its forms (to include reverse discrimination) is not racism. In fact not pointing out, or worse defending, reverse discrimination *IS* racism. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So, I guess people like MLK are to be discounted as well... I mean he 'cried in his beer about discrimination' a bunch. Number of attempts to point out the problem does not make someone a racist either. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Pointing out an inequality makes you a racist? I guess Rossie Parks was a racist according to you. Being allowed, or not being allowed to do/have/wear/say something based only on race *IS* racist. Pointing out when it happens is not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well the police/professor issue was not something he should have gotten into either.... But he did. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if you don't want a phone, or can't really afford it, he wants to make you pay a penalty for not having one. Except many people will lose their current coverage since their employers will drop the more expensive programs and just pay the lesser fee... So you don't get to keep it. The problem is it is neither cheep NOR free. Someone has to pay for it, and that someone is taxpayers. If you had an uncle that had all these great business ideas, but EVERY business he started failed.... Would you give him money to start another one? Because people like me are going to be forced to pay for ANOTHER failed program. Have you ever had govt paid for health care????? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Check that very post hero. "Ron, you're simply hysterical." "It's always Ron's winter of discontent" "I don't like to think anyone is dumb nor do I assume anyone is until proven otherwise. Sadly, some people I know prove it on an almost daily basis. " Play the ball, not the player. I expect better from *mods*. If that were anyone else but you, BillVon would already be all over them. Making lame insults is just another way of saying you are out of logical debate and you have to resort to childish antics. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Face it... you are unable to admit you are wrong. Between you claiming to know more than you really know, and your personal insults... I find this boring, and annoying. Still waiting on these answer BTW: How many MG do you own? How many MG were you issued? How many MG matches have you been to? How many medals at MG matches have you won? Answer them, or don't expect a reply. Please try to avoid more lame personal attacks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While that may be what you call it.... That does not make it true. Nope because it was 2008 Don't blame me for your inability to understand seasons. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You clearly missed something. What do you call January? Spring? January is between those dates right? So yeah... You missed something... Like a basic understanding of the seasons. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

All it proves is you have no idea what you are talking about. I won the MACHINE GUN shooting competition, without a belt fed weapon. I didn't use a belt fed to win either. The ATF does not agree with your definition either. Bet hey!!! Don't let facts keep you from thinking you know more than everyone else. You just can't accept that you are not an expert on everything can you? And you bring lame insults???? Mods should know better than that. Still waiting on your answers BTW: Now answer these questions if you will: How many MG do you own? How many MG were you issued? How many MG matches have you been to? How many medals at MG matches have you won? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sure you can. One is free, but not as good as the one you have to pay for. The Govt *IS* requiring you to get AT LEAST a Razor... Or they will fine you. Wrong... Social Security is not an Option, and it is run like crap. Me paying for Medicare and Medicaid is not an option either. Me paying for Amtrak is also not an option... All are run like crap. Name one Govt social program that was put into place, proven to not work, and was eliminated. History has shown that the Govt does not do a good job of running these programs... That taxpayers are always left on the hook to pay for these program, and even then the Govt just passes the debt along to the next generation. Go ahead, I see you have not answered any of my questions, so I will ask again: 1. Name a Govt program that works well. 2. Name a Govt program that stays within its budget. 3. Name any govt run healthcare program that does not have budget issues. 4. Let's say you had a company and you currently pay 5k a year to have each of your employees covered by your healthcare plan. The Govt imposes a "fine" if you don't cover your employees of 3k a year. Are you still going to provide healthcare? 5. Name one Govt social program that was put into place, proven to not work, and was eliminated. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you currently subscribe to a local paper? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you are saying you would rather have a Samsung cell phone that's free than an iPhone? Name a Govt program that works well. Name a Govt program that stays within its budget. Name any govt run healthcare program that does not have budget issues. Then there are other situations.... Let's say you had a company and you currently pay 5k a year to have each of your employees covered by your healthcare plan. The Govt imposes a "fine" if you don't cover your employees of 3k a year. Are you still going to provide healthcare? I know several company's that if a public option is passed plan on dropping the Company paid plans and just paying the smaller fine. that just makes good business sense. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I know people that continue to hang onto ignorance no matter what data you present to them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And quote the LAW, and shown a video of me and one of my machineguns, and having been in the Army.... All while you quote wikipedia. Now answer these questions if you will: How many MG do you own? How many MG were you issued? How many MG matches have you been to? How many medals at MG matches have you won? I am going to bet your answers to all of the above will be ZERO... Yet you claim to know terminology? In this case you are like the whuffo claiming to know more about skydiving than a guy with thousands of jumps. Go ahead, run that study and let me know what you get.... you are going to be surprised. Again, answer the questions... go ahead. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, first you have to remove any incidents that happened in places that DO NOT allow citizens to carry. Places like school buses and cities like Chicago, DC and NYC. Of course you will not actually follow logical data gathering since it does not support your already held notions. Not really... You statement implies that places where you have to go through a metal detector and have your bags screened are the only places where bans work. That's not a ban, that is a screening process that works. And there have been failures in those places as well, such as courtroom shootings. So your theory is proven to be false there as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can choose to be obtuse and avoid being intellectually honest. But, that does not change fact. Not until 1972 were passengers screened.... Yet no shootings before then either.... A swing and a miss! And yet countries that have banned them STILL have gun violence. Another swing and a miss! Wow.... In places they work, they work???? In places they don't, they don't???? You just trying to state the obvious? So, in places that require each and every person to pass through a magnetometer and all their baggage to be Xrayed a gun ban works.....Other places, not so much. You are using that example to show that bans work? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really... From your own post: How about the LAW of the land, the National Firearms Act... You know the law that actually says what is what? http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm Most people would not call them machine guns in common usage?!?!?!?!?! Really???? How many machineguns do you own? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopYDdRSDoA How many machinegun matches have you been to? How many machineguns were you issued at some point in your life? I referenced the law, you referenced Wikipedia. I OWN machineguns, you referenced Wikipedia. I don't think you are really qualified to state what is "common" terminology here. Like the whuffo claiming that it is called "skyjumping". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You avoided answering the question....Why at schools as opposed to Gunshows? I mean if people want to claim that more guns equals more crime... then why are there shooting sprees where guns are banned and not at a place where guns are everywhere? Have we EVER had a shooting spree on an airliner? We have had shooting sprees on trains: http://books.google.com/books?id=tLkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=train+shooting+sprees&source=bl&ots=AzebmUy6kU&sig=N-BWtReuG9xgH3ePTHMKsDvMtgM&hl=en&ei=t_a3SrfJDYiCtgf84JnsDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Yet we know that (1) guns are not allowed on them and (2) it is not legal to carry a pistol in NYC, AND that (3) it is already illegal to shoot at people. Because they are in the middle of a war. If gun bans work, why does CA have gang gun violence? Why does NYC? Why does DC? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334