freakydiver

Just because you can make it down a run at the local ski area doesn't mean I want you in the backcountry with me. Things get a lot more complicated when your time to decide how to save your ass diminishes. This isn't a soccer match or a class two rapid... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Yah unfortunately a shoulder does not at all like the boxman position. That is the weakest way to position the shoulder, arm out at a ninety just like box man about to pull. Add 120mph of wind on it and one is just asking for another pop. It WILL NOT GET BETTER EVER. You can do all of the PT you want, but once those ligaments are stretched to the point of allowing the shoulder to dislocate, they need to be surgically tightened up to prevent it from ever happennin again... I luv Brittany S. heh -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

You gunna close that point er what??? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Forget about all of the bullshit perception that comes with being either one or the other. ITS ALL FRIGGIN FREE FLYING. I've been doing all different types of "flying" in my eight years and will continue to do all different types. THEY ARE ALL FUN FOR DIFFERENT REASONS and not to mention can be combined. Don't be like that lame free flyer who will NEVER go on a belly to earth jump or vice versa. So much to learn and its fun to learn to! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Just talked to an old mentor of mine, he taught me the 30 second psycho trash pack. Bottom line is manage your lines and it will open, not necessarily straight, but as long as you manage your line sets, you won't get a lineover. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Just an idea, but would it be all that bad just to stop the jump and grab onto the handle of the almost about to offend pilot chute? I guess I'm wondering what would happen if one were to grab it on the way out, sort of a human controlled horseshoe? Would it depend on whether or not there is a camera man up above (i.e let it go at that point), grab it always?? Thoughts and suggestions?? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

200 - can't imagine not having it on my head anymore... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Just be careful, when my arm popped out it was extremely painful in freefall and I would/could imagine some people would really have to concentrate on keeping stable and doing the right things in such a situation. Mine popped out and there was no way it was getting back in while doin 120 towards the ground, the made my only option to pull silver. This could get expensive if you have to do this on a regular basis. Good luck and be safe! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

orthopedic surgeons rock. physical therapists rock too even though you hate them with a passion... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

that looks like they just exited, not really a head down attitude?? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Ron man, whats with the negativity here. Read my posts from: May 1, 2003, 10:43 AM and May 1, 2003, 10:33 AM "Include Who, What, When, Where, at What cost... Establish a regulatory agency..Where do they get funding.. The plan has to be able to be implemented NATIONWIDE..." I suggested probable ideas in both. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"You scream that your personal freedom is being steped on..." I honestly DO NOT believe anyone is "screaming" that their personal freedom's are being stepped on except for a very small percentage of responses to these types of threads. If you'd care to prove me wrong do so. I believe what people are "screaming" is, people are dying, lets put something in place quick to educate them even just a little bit more than they are being educated now to try to prevent this from growing into a really large problem. In all honesty, I could give two shi*s if anyone put in regulation because I already learned how to fly a canopy, but it won't stop anyone from hooking a freaking parachute into the ground if we don't show them how to manuver their canopies in all sorts of conditions and take the instructional level further than, "yah so here's the downwind leg and thats the target and then you flare. Just listen to the radio and you'll be fine" THAT WON'T CUT IT. (That was shouting btw). Its like any "extreme" sport out there. Dirt bike riding for instance, you think these big dirt jumpers are putting regulations in place so the kids coming up don't hurt themselves on the bikes? NO! They are teaching CLASSES for them. You think these skiers and snowboarders that are tossing themselves 50-100 feet in the air are putting regulations in place to keep people from getting hurt on too long of a board? They put on clinics and gladly answer questions and suggest progressions to safely advance. In both of these instances, I believe people began to see the need for some sort of safety net before anyone could run out and hop on a bike and huck themselves off of a huge kicker. The riding community realized that it better start happening rather quickly or insurance problems would quickly begin to arrise. Education is the key. Education, education, education. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

"I doubt that would work...Almost everyone thinks THEY are above the norm." They're students for crying out loud. They are adults that are in a learning environment. They obviously pick up on everything else that goes into an Instructional course that gets them to the point of being able to purchase the herein said high performance canopy. If it was presented to a student in this fashion, "Look, you will have a hundred jumps from now, right now that seems like alot to you, but really its not. When you get there, you will start to take notice of people landing their canopies at very high rates of descent. It looks badass, its alot of fun. HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT DIED LAST YEAR DIED TRYING IT AND HAD UNDER 500 JUMPS (a lie, but screw it, scare them). You will want to try these types of landings. GET INSTRUCTION FIRST AND TALK TO SO AND SO BEFORE EVER TRYING IT BECAUSE PEOPLE GET HURT AND PEOPLE DIE." Do you honestly think if we beat this into their heads that we wouldn't save JUST ONE life??? ONE, thats the goal here correct? Than two?? They are human freaking beings that can learn if we teach them. They seem to manage to follow reserve sequences even though those could seem pretty technical at first. I've seen jumpers with less than 20 jumps deal with having to cut away and dump their reserves. Why would teching them that going to fast too soon can kill more than anything else in the sport not sink into their brains??? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I believe I was out of the sport for a total of 14 months. It was a seven hour surgery with rotator cuff and the (forgetting names right now) tighten the ligaments up horizontally surgery (i.e. get it back tight into the socket). When you get out of surgery you wont be able to rotate your arm at all beyond its sitting position whcih is across your stomach at a 90 (like it were laying across your lap). The rehab people pull it every day to get the ligaments back to normal stretch. It hurt. Thank god for vicodin. I've broken many bones and nothing came close to the pain this surgery caused afterwrds. But, I can now throw, play football, play basketball (never could've attempted to hoop while arm was in bad shape, it would've popped right out), and skydive with one hundred percent confidence. It doesn't even ever come close to feeling weird. Never. If you start to dislocate it alot, it will only get worse, so either get excersising on it or get surgery. There is actually another thread based on downsizing the reserve and I brought up this point. I'm sincerely glad I didn't have a dinky reserve because the winds were up that day and we were spotted quite off the main landing area. I had a swift plus 143 and had no issues really sinking it into a tgith landing area with varable winds with only one arm. Good luck... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Mine popped out in freefall at pulltime after screwing it up snowboarding a year prior. I had to go for my reserve because it was my right arm. I got surgery and it has never happened since. I've heard more than one story about people just dealing with it when it happens in freefall, but at 2500 feet, I felt as though I should perhaps stop jumping and get the thing repaired before putting myself in that position ever again. Good luck! TAKE YOUR TIME WITH THIS or it will haunt you for longer than necessary... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

" (it's almost always a guy, isn't it?)" I hope you are joking. Actually, hell, you are probably correct. I had a long discussion with my old DZO about this last night and low and behold, perhaps I am swayable over to the regulation side a small tiny bit now. I still believe that all of the points everyone has brought up are extremely valid. Please forgive me for being so up into this discussion, but I as well as all of you don't want to see any more useless deaths in our beautiful sport. I also believe that limiting someone with between 200-300 jumps to 1.2 is really conservative if they are current and flying smart. Maybe we need to really organize ourselves and put some good brainpower into really thinking this out. For instance (taken from bits and pieces of everyons suggestions), how about milder regulations as well as mandatory canopy skill class in the AFF progression where an individual is at the very least introduced to the individual (oops sorry, to the guy ). Sky (i dont like the word bytch, do you mind if i call you skyLady)... I m not trying to get on you in these forums, I hope you know that. We are all here because we want to see improvement. My only point in starting this new thread was to see what people thought might happen with just regulation in place and nothing more. I've spoken with you a few times on the phone and you have been extremely helpful to me and brutally honest in a couple of instance which makes me a safer jumper and for that you have my 100 pecent gratitude. Anyhow, whats next, how do we move forward?? I am in total agreement, we need to move forward YESTERDAY... Have a good one all. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I'm confused a bit... "If they can walk - or limp - away from the mistake under a light to moderately loaded canopy - like you did - instead of being seriously injured or dying from the same mistake under a higher loaded canopy... gosh, I just can't see the bad in that. Besides, "regulation" without a concurrent push toward solid canopy control education being available everywhere isn't going to keep people from making stupid mistakes. Like I've stated in other threads, what "regulations" will do is keep ego driven 50 (100, 200, 300) jump wonders from getting their hands on canopies that are very likely too much for them to handle when the shit hits the fan." Specifically, "I just can't see the bad in that." My point was, even with regulation I'd still most likely be able to get a canopy loaded at 1.26 with 200 jumps and I'd still be able to burn it in because of trying to be a hot shot. How will regulation cure that ill? How will regulation help that problem?? Wait, you answered my question, "Besides, "regulation" without a concurrent push toward solid canopy control education being available everywhere isn't going to keep people from making stupid mistakes." Thanks!!!!!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

How about all three on Missy Nelson's team? Sorry, couldn't resist, not only are they amazing, they are amazing as well... Amy's my fav... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

I cannot honestly believe how depressed one can get after their hockey team (the avs) falls to the same fate as the dreaded red wings (). What am I supossed to do now?? There are three more rounds in the playoffs??? Looking for help. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

No doubt, it would be funny to meet someone that was like yah, I got 1000 jumps and they flew like they had 50 in the past 50 years... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

After re-reading my post my real question gets a bit lost. My question is, if regulation were in place, wouldn't uneducated canopy pilots still burn em in trying to look like educated canopy pilots even under moderately loaded canopies as I as well as many other jumpers have? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Now do you believe me YET???

Someone just brought up a very good point in another thread about how much it can help to be able to view someone's profile to get a good idea of their expereince level. I personally know quite a few people who pad the hell out of their log books and I can't figure out why other than to get to rating requirements faster. For that very reason, rather than having "not enuf" in my current jump number on this forum, I updated my jump numbers to just about what I have in real life out of respect for every other person reading and posting to this site. Why not grow up and do the same people if you haven't already???????????????? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

www.CYPRES-2.com -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

Let me throw this one to the dogs. Let's say regulation hit the proverbial fan and USPA or the FAA stepped in and laid the law, I mean, laid down the law with regulatory jump numbers and wingloadings. Would you tend to agree or disagree with the following statement: In my seriously humble nervous about getting flamed like there is no tomorrow opinion, I would be willing to place a wager that incidents under perfectly good canopies wouldn't be cut by any percentage. Just off the top of my head, but lets just say 1.5 was the wingloading limit under 500 jumps. Lets say Mr.