speedy

Here is some sound advice from someone with more experience than myself and a direct quote from a post in this forum. and and So, I would say that although you may feel what they are doing is dangerous, when you have as many jumps as they have, maybe you will feel different. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Even the best teacher can not teach someone when they will not listen. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

As much as you should be able to spot and do so as often as you can, I call BS on that. If you're in a group, and arent close to the door, you just have to trust the people at the door. Well you could always check the spot while in freefall while you are waiting for the last person on the group to dock. If it looks bad, wave of early and oull higher. Or is that a bad move? Sorry, guess I should have said almost. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Everytime you jump you should be using your spotting skills. You may not need your EP's on every jump, but I check the spot everytime I jump. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

The cows are the real scary part I am scared of those. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Excellent! Keep up the practice and interest. Great! Here is a link to some stuff from John Kallend Skydiving resources. The "Powerpoint presentation on exit safety with freefall sim" is very interesting. There is something about spotting in there as well. Don't forget to talk to your instructors about what you read just incase you misunderstand any of it. Glad to see you are heads up about landing your canopy. Why did you land off though? Wansn't a spotting error I hope Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Maybe you are right I dunno, but as I said earlier, the big plus point for the original poster was that a few people here with experience vouched for him. Also it appears he has already, or will be, taking a canopy control course. All plus points in his favour. The minus point is when you look at Brian Germains wingloading chart. Still, hope he has fun with it.

So we may as well start training students on crossfires right? Same results, can happen under any canopy...... Just my opinion, but some canopies require more skill than others in order to survive the landings. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

You say Which is all good stuff.

When I said Note that ground speed is a pretty good indication of winds at altitude. Ron said Now I ask myself, how the fuck can they know if they can make the DZ when they have no knowledge of the winds? Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

And no where, ever, did I say you should not be looking outside. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

I find curling quite entertaining to watch. I haven't a clue why though Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

In your case I don't think you guess because you mentioned the planning aspect of spotting. Also you mentioned in an earlier post about determining the spot on the ground. I like the planning then executing method. That is better than trying to collect the neccessary information on the climb to altitude, having a pilot that does not know where he is, then looking out of the door and saying "I think we'll get back, lets jump." Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

There are some people that think just because they can get 4 people out a C182 at 9000 ft and they all land in the DZ they can spot. What théy are really doing is making a very rough guess at where to get out of the aircraft. When you need to get 20 people in multiple groups out of an otter at 14000 ft with the correct exit seperation then I am going to use all the tools I can to make sure all 20 get back to the landing area. If that means using GPS to start the jump run at 0.5 mile before the DZ then so be it. I know that if I let the majority of jumpers decide when they exit, we would have a fuckup at least every other load. I have tried to teach people how to spot and unless you stay with Rons "look out of the door and guess" their eyes glaze over. They don't want to know about freefall drift, wind speeds and direction, wind shear, forward throw, etc. And your pilot has no clue how to find the DZ? Here is some interesting information for you. I can only direct our pilots during the last 2 miles of run in to the DZ. Otherwise I cannot tell the pilot where to fly. ATC tells the pilot where to fly and if he does not follow their orders he's in big trouble. Do you not think it would be wise for me to tell the pilot which direction I would like to run in before we are at altitude? Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

The XF2 is a rocket, massively different to a sabre 2. A freind of mine is recovering from a broken hip after botching a landing with a XF2 at a similar WL. He had over 700 jumps. I don't know what your skills are or what courses you have taken, but a few people here seem to vouch for you, which gives you a head start. Please be carefull and get training. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

For the record, not only do I have a PRO rating and 100 "no shit" live demos....But I ALSO have a pilots license. Add that to 2000 more jumps than you, several instructor ratings, AND 8 years more in the sport than you...I guess you are right...I know nothing about the sport, spotting, or anything to do with aircraft compared to you..... Then you should know that know the wind speed and direction is required to determine the spot and to find that spot at 14000ft GPS is more accurate than eyesight. Why is it so dangerous to use GPS as an aid to determine when to leave the aircraft. Do you ignore the all the instruments in your aircraft on when your are flying? They might fail Ron. Yep altemeters fail. But I guess if yours does break you will bounce since your love of instruments will not let you pull when your eyes tell you that you are low Guess what Ron, I would guess that you are going to bounce because of your hatred of instruments. Your altimeter will read 1000 ft and you will think, it's broke, thats at least 3000 ft by my eyesight. Only this time your altimeter isn't broke *I* would rather a person know that if it looks like he is gonna bounce to do something about it, and not to just blindly trust a device is always correct and wait till his goggles fill with blood. and I would rather someone who is prepared to accept that altimeter can fail and eyes can deceive. Oh, I forgot , you've got a PRO rating and hundreds of demos, your eyes are more accurate than GPS at 14000 ft. Of course, ignore the altimeter reading, trust your eyes. Guess you don't bother wearing an altimeter at all Your willingness to ignore everything but your eyes is amazing. I can hear the conversation now. "Why did you have a cypres fire Ron?" Answer, "Yeah well my altimeter read 1000 ft, my protrack was beeping like shit, but hell, it looked more like 3000ft." Smart move Ron, smart move Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Ah, yeah. So you let the GPS tell you where you are...what is that if its not letting it spot for you? So you think that all you need to know to spot is to know where you are. Strange way to spot in my opinion. That whole paragraph tells me that they think they are spotting. I mean if they were surprized then that means they think they were spotting. Which indeed they were at other DZ's, but not at mine And I have seen some real disasters when the skydivers think the pilot can do a better job. If your pilot does not know where his aircraft is at any moment in time, I suggest you find a better pilot. Great, so you look out the door, but trust the GPS over you. That *is* letting the GPS spot dude. I suppose you think your eyesight is more accurate than GPS. Dunno why the U.S. miltary spent so much money on GPS, they could have just asked you, dude. Never said Expect them to do it...I said LEARN to do it. You and your GPS love will not teach them anything more than to turn into lemming when they see a green light. Thats why you look out the door on the ride to altitude. They don't need to know any of that. It does not matter if they are .5 or .6. All that matters is they know if they can make the DZ. The distance, angle, or ground speed is not needed information. Only knowing if they can make the DZ. So now wind is irrelevant to the spot It getting even more wierd. Or, some smart ass on the ground thought the pilot knew more than he did and lept out like a trained seal on the green light. You keep saying you spot, but then claim the GPS is so much better than you. Its pretty funny to see you claim you spot, then everything you say after that is giving the spot to the pilot. Do you think on a demo into the middle of a city the jumpers spot the plane themselves, or do you think the pilot uses GPS to fly to a point over the ground? *hint I have a PRO rating and have over 100 live demos and well over 500 training jumps for those demos...And not once did the pilot do anything but point the nose into the wind at altitude. and then take directions from the jumpers. Also the only demo I ever landed out on was a mock HALO insertion for the military out of a C-130. We let the Airforces cool wizbang system (much better than anything civilians have) determine the release point for the operation. Its called HARP (High Altitude Release Point) and it takes a computer, a guy trained to use that computer and ALL off the flight information such as winds at different altitudes..And mixes it all up and spits out a release point. We missed. So much for the Armys cool toys huh? But I guess yours are better. I'm done here. Keep doing what you ahve been if it makes you happy. But I would rather people learn to spot. Quote I bet you are one of those jumpers that thinks an altimeter is just a cool toy as well and tell people to use their eyes. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

Would that be I shat in the woods. Naa, I'm only shitting you No, shit Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

You are the one saying GPS can spot, not me. I am saying GPS can tell you where you are. I never said I let the pilot spot, I let the pilot tell me where I am. Actually the pilots at my DZ are rather surprised when I tell them that I determine the spot. And don't we know why! It's because most skydivers cannot spot. Where the hell did you get this crazy idea that the door is only opened when a green light comes on ? At our DZ the yellow light comes on 2 miles before the DZ. The yellow means "open the door and start checking the spot". Green comes, this is the spot where if we start jumping , everyone on the plane should land at DZ. When green goes out, we have flown too far and really you should ask for a go around. This does not stop them jumping though, because they can't spot! I've seen some real disasters with people who are not pilots trying to direct a plane to the DZ at 14000ft using sight only. Again, determining the spot has nothing to do with GPS. But, GPS is invaluable in getting you there. I am going to trust GPS over anyones eyes to tell me if the plane is 0.2 miles before the DZ or 0.3 miles before the DZ. Before you put words into my mouth, that does not mean I will not bother to check with my eyes that the DZ is there underneath me before I jump. You are living in a dream world if you expect skydivers with a few hundred jumps to be able to ... 1) look out of an aircraft at 14000ft and determine what their freefall drift will be when falling 2) what the winds are at opening altitude. 3) where they are to the nearest 0.5 of a mile from the DZ 4) know the direction the plane is flying to within 30° 5) and finally have any idea how much ground speed the plane has to within a 20 kt margin of error. You need all of the above information to determine the spot, but there are people out there that think its enough just to look out of the door. The spot at our DZ is determined on the ground before anyone has jumped. If it's wrong, it's usually because some smart ass who thought they could spot has decided not to go when the green light came on. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

I wanna a gun! But here I can't have one I want one at home to shoot annoying intruders

1. You never learn how to spot. 2. You are not looking out the door and not checking for aircraft. 3. You are not looking fo cloud clearance. 4. The pilot has an engine and WILL make it back even if you don't. Being a pilot, and having a cool toy like a GPS does not mean you know shit about spotting. Some of the worst spots I have been on have been pilot spotted GPS. GPS can be great to help. Some pilots can GPS spot better than any skydiver. But its YOUR butt on the line, not his. Learn to spot. Look out the aircraft. What on earth are you talking about? GPS is a useful tool for knowing exactly where you are. It can also be a helpful tool in checking the wind at various altitudes. 1. GPS cannot spot and cannot stop people learning how to spot. 2. Why am I not looking out of the door? GPS does not stop you looking out of the door. 3. Why am I not looking for cloud clearance? I never expect GPS to tell me whether the are clouds in the area. 4. The worst spots by the pilot would still be the worst spots with or without GPS. Just because the pilot knows where he is, does not mean he knows where the spot is. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl

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