rhys

Does anyone notice the selfish c#*ts not giving a shit because they couldn't care less! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

shhhh oil is only $50 a barrel again, we can drive our piece of shit behemouth vehicles again and not feel bad about it! assholes. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Usualy someone with such a fatuous attitude toward climate change is trying to justify their own contribution to the problem. I suppose you think the Sahara and the middle east are naturally arid landscapes too? The suggestion that people have no influence on the detriment of 'our' Earth, and that OUR Earth that we all share regardless of belief, is here is for humans to rape and pillage is nothing more than asinine. I have no repect whatsoever with that attitude. I am no tree hugger myself and realise I am contibuting my fair share of pollution, but to suggest that the rapid decline in the stability of nature, has nothing to do with human activity is naive and despicable. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I agree, it works the way the manufacturer made it, they tested it and payed lots of money and spent lots of time testing the system. If you go experimenting unecessarily you will most likely be trying things that have already been done in the past, and unlearning what has been made. If there is a problem however, then resolving the problem is a different story altogether. I'll use an example i know of to explain; My fancee's old Javelin would fit her 107main in it even though that main size and type was a size bigger than the maximum, officially supposed to go in the container. Rotatng the bag so the lines were at the bottom was basically wedging the D bag into a space it wasn't supposed to fit in. So in the end she packed it with the grommet up and ths allowed a cleaner, more reliable deployment. Should she have that canopy in that container? Debateable, but according to the manufacturer she shouldn't have because it was beyond the parametres they tested. It did work however and she made 1000's of jumps on that system. note:She did have some P/C hesitations after her deployment system had a couple of 1000 jumps but replacing the P/C resolved the problem. She has to this day never had a reserve ride and has 6000 jumps. If you have a perfect working sysytem, why change it? What is the point of routing the bridle at the bottom of the flap rather than the top as you mentioned? The system has been tested? Do you gain 'anything' from changing it, other than being different? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

What would be the advantage of the conclusion? You would know how many G's the canopy gave. At a 1.0 wingloading you would not be finding anything too interesting out, and wouldn't be explaining why a smaller canopy is 'whippier' than a larger canopy of the same wingloading. It is an intersting topic though, my fiance has just got her new crossfire 89 and at 50kg (110lb's) she has a whopping 1.48 wing loading. if she wanted to compete with usual wing loadings she would need a; 69 square ft to have 1.9 59 sq/ft to have 2.2. or carry weight on a smaller canopy to achieve that same W/L. So I guess my question, and assuming the question of the OP is; What difference in flight characharistics are there between a small pilot on a canopy (no added weight) with a W/L of 2.5 compared to a massive guy on a canopy with the same wingloading. and if there is a difference (which I am inclined to believe thare is?) why is it so? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I clearly asked to see evidence that NIST's report is peer reviewed, you have not shown me that. NIST is the official report we are debating here, that most truther do not believe is, and the ONLY REAL REASON THER IS ANY CONTROVERSY. you could go on all year about who, why, how.... but the fact remains. NIST have not produce a credible report yet and they have been commisioned by the US govornment to do so. PLEASE SHOW ME THAT NIST'S REPORT IS PEER REVEIWED. then i will look into your other papers. those questions are not directly relevant to the NIST and mechanics of the buildings' collapse, and I am not that interested in that at this stage, I am interested in finding out if NIST has been lying as suspected, and you are avoiding that. While bringing the beleifs of others and not necessarily mine, into our conversation. No I said "doesn't necessarily mean I think the Aq involvement is a hoax. " I am in the not sure bracket, and want to know if we are being told the truth, simple. who's fantasy? yours? You are putting words in my mouth. that was an example fo a potential answer to the question, One again, I do not necessarily believe any story told so far, you assume I do. though one story seems more plausable than others. No, it goes to show how the preconception of all the 'ragheads being in the same boat' is all too true. They didn't have much difficulty invading iraq with concent dod they? They did have opposition but not as much as the support they had. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

most of that is irellevent to the buildings and the buildings collapses (911 reality) and how nist handled the investigation. bar the 1 question which is easy; Now in answering this question, do not think I necessarily agree that the Al Q connection is a hoax, just pointing out that it is an easy question to answer; The hijacking scenario would be paramount in the deception of the global community about the motives and repercussions of the accused attack/ers. This would allow the heavy handed use of military might in countries that played absolutely no role whatsoever in the incident using semantics around the term 'Terrorist', with the consent of the majority of the US and global population. the explosives were not times with the impact at all but were ignited a considerable time after the collisions with the aircraft. A car or truck bomb would have very minimal impact on the structural integrety of the buildings and this has been confirmed by a previous explosive attack on one of the buildings, the fire weakening the steel scenario would have been concocted prior to the collapse and 'stood by' regardles of the audaciuos claims that surrount that hypothesis. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Ahem, excuse me? the main recource is the NIST report is it not? this is suposedly a bonafide report that the US govornment payed $20 million dollars for and it is not peer reviewed? I have been asked many times to produce peer reviewed papers to confirm my beliefs when I am not exactly sure what to beieve, and cannot find any concrete evidence/investigation into what caused the buildings to collapse. Show me where NIST's report is peer reviewed, I have looked but cant find it, if you can that would be of help. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Sounds, plausable, but so do his reasons. I do not condone terrorism in any way but US foreign policy is often nothing less than terrorism in its own right. I started reading your paper, http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf I was skeptical once I read; That is a mother of an assumtion, and it assumes the entire floor all 48 or so core colums all collaped simultaniously from a random fire. Here is the floor plan and core plan of the north tower /WTC1 on the the 96th floor; 96th floor plan and the core plan That paper uses the kintetic and potential energy of the entire weight and mass of the building above that floor and assumes all the core colums and perimeter fixings failed at precicely that same time(and dissapeared?), then allowed the entire weight and mass of the combined floors above to Free Fall(thier words) for the height separating the floors. they extend their data from that assertion Isaak newton would be turning in his grave. Do you not see that that is flawed, also, if the building (according to popular belief/NIST)had been manipulated already by gravity (sagging) and this movement and weakening was caused buy heat from fire (random temperatures in different areas), then how can they concede that the distance between the two floors was the same as it was before the planes hit/the same distance as the undamged floors. please. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

The buildings managed to hold the weight if the structure for almost 3 decades. the buildings were designed to carry massive weight. and they did that until the point in which they gave way completely. The whole truth movement is not about trying to discover the answers themselves, it is about having an new impartial investigation so these things can be determined without deciet or secrecy. You are asking me, a skydiver to produce answers that you are sure that I cant answer in thier detailed entirety, and will use that as a basis to say I am wrong. how does that acheive anything? Listen to JFK and his wise words to america before he lost his life for debatable reasons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxnpujfanUM&feature=related Ignore the title just listen, then ask yourself why these guys http://lawyersfor911truth.blogspot.com/ think the investigation is bogus? tell me why they are stupid tin foil hatters and you are so wise. Why is NIST being so secretive? that is not the american way is it? I have learned that assumtion is no good in an argument, you guys will pin that shit down in a heart beat, and use it to swing the conversation in your favor. There 'is' a real smelly rat here, I am not entirly sure what, who, how and why but the truth is not being told and there is a reson for it. I am prepared to admit I am wrong if I can be proved wrong beyond resonable doubt, I have made incorrect decisions from incorrect information many times as we all probably have. My opinion is not set in concrete. I am an honest person and expect others to be the same, if I am told a lie and have no reson to think it is a lie, then how am I to know? A controversy as large and widespead as this one is good enough reason to commit to another investigation, if you oppose that then you must want the controversy and not a resolution. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

i did a jump from 20k one time and i had the same thing, i was tapping my alti and looking down from about 10k down. we got 90 sec freefly though "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I say bullshit, we had dytters in our helmets when i was a student, I did static line, but i am an AFF J/M. If a student does not have altitude awareness, it will be obvious to the instructor, if he/she are any good at instructing. An audible is a good idea, it is another reminder and it need not be set for any height above or about the desired deploying height. if the dytter goes off before they deployed... then they fucked up. They are a safety device and anyone that has access to one should use it. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

once at brisbane skydiving cente in the 206 and once in queenstown an NZONE in the cresco, the cresco was the best because of all the nice handles inside the plane. you gotta do it oin the plane!! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I am not here to change other people minds, i am here to either confirm or change mine. This whole thing is so clouded with bullshit that the topic is usually missed and the onversation goes off in tangents. There has to be respectable people lying or kidding themselves on either side of the story if either of them are true and it is still not conclusive either way. NIST reprt is not peer reveiwed either? i may just have moved my standpoint on controled demolition due to another person/site that I have poseted on another thread. these guys explain better the photgraphic evidence than NIST did and focus primarily on the reason for the attacks, which is US foreign policy. Now i can't be sure what to believe but i am not a tubborn idiot, and I am not bias, i did have an origional perception/gut instinct which i will naturally be inclined to go with but NIST's crap along with their 'adams apple swollowing' explanations are what has kept me skeptake of the official story. Untl now there has been two credable sides, now I have discovered 3. [url]Come on - everyone is ridiculing you here, regardless of their stance on Iraq in 2003. And on that matter, I don't think you'll find many people 'changed to agree with your prophetic stance.' Quote note his opinion of conspiracy theorists. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

What has BL or AQ got to do with Iraq/hussein? Have they (BL/AQ) not stated on numerous occasions that their primary reason for attacking the USA and any other nation for that matter is the support those counrtries give to Isreal? Has that point been made clear to the american people? no it has been denied, i am not defending these guys, they are scum but as a basis for a war the standpoint of america is flawed. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

"they fell at virtual freefall speed" meaning from when they started to fall until the completed falling. Terminal velocity would be questionable here due to the displacement of air and the obstruction of fragments of the building and the structure itself. Still very peculiar, The rate in which they collapsed that is. If it does turn out to be demolition it was not standad demolitin like WTC7 is more akin to. but in reverese order. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I was very surprised to not have seen these guys in here already, I searched. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SB4V1sDjyI&feature=PlayList&p=F5026117E154555E&index=0&playnext=1 www.representativepress.org I can't stop watching, but you know me.. I am quite interested in your opinions, as the points seem valid and the reserch has obviously been done. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

The buildings esantially exploded did they not, The discintegrated infront of all of us. Show me anything close to that in history? Yes they were 110 storys but by the time the buildings had collapsed a few floors there was (heavy) shit flying everywhere and in all directions, it simply looks like an explosion. Remeber how many times we watched that shit when it happened, shitloads!!! and we analised the fuck out if it and from there this whole debate began. I am not debating this to be stubborn i realy want answers, and yes if you have a pre concieved standpoint it is hard not to support it. That is a fact of life. you will find a few posts back that I have already responded. Go and see I bet your surprised with my reaction? So yes I have read it and yes it seems valid. We finally seem to be getting somewhere with this. I never said I was alone, but I was ridiculed right here in these forums by the very people that try to ridicule me this time, that type of conduct/conversation never really achieves anything really does it? I found these guys; http://representativepress.org/ Gotta watch this, not quite relevant but still connected to the issue is some respect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SB4V1sDjyI&feature=PlayList&p=F5026117E154555E&index=0&playnext=1 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Reading you post in it entirety, raises one question, If you, a random poster on DZ.com can come up with a more plauseable theory than NIST (on the colour of the substance) not say I believe aluminium and glass can combine, never tried but I would seriously doubt it. why do NIST not say the same as you? 20 million for a vague description of what you threw out in one or two paragraphs of the top of your head... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

read post 159! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

a, i'm a Kiwi b, do you have blueprints of the building or are you assuming again? and example of a floor plan in one of the towers. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/doc/pac1TowerA/A-A-148_1.png there see to be plenty of column that are exposed. Here is a recource for all of the north towers blueprints. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/table.html Show me where walls have to be removed to get to them? You speak as though this has never been thought of. those buliding were HUGE and FUCKING STRONG. It would not necessarily take thousands of charges as some have stated here, but the coulms would have to give in at the same time to result in a collaspe as we saw without leaving at least a good proportion of the colums still standing and the floors collapsed below. I am going to wait for a reply from AE911truth now. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I wanted to study that in more depth before i commented on it, i have read it full and it does sound as though they are speaking truthfully and from experience. They did not explain the rate in which the buildings fell, but I will not discredit them at this stage. I have written to AE911truth and am awaiting reply, this is what I sent them; this thread is really a clincher for me as the whether I donate to these guys and this study is the most respectful study that may refute my beliefs (don't get too excited yet) I am gong to wait and see what they have to say about it. I'm sure they know about it, and have had plenty of time to study, or experiment to refute it. My thoughts at this stage are this; when I have seen footage of thermate melting steel or whatever, it does not seem to make an loud shockwave as such, but i have not seen a cutter charge. If the aircraft hit the building with explosives already there, what difference would it make to the result if the explosives were to be activated by the impact and resulting fires, and why did they fail to explain the rate in which the buildings fell considering the massive amount of enrgy trnsfer (drag) that wold have been taking place for the building to fall in such a way. We'll wait and see what Mr Cage has to say about it! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

before you go, please answer 1 simple question. Do you think NIST's assertion that the moulten liquid falling from the dameged area of the building just prior to the collapse could in fact be aluminium, is correct? I know for sure it is not as I have done plenty of casting. It will only glow orange when the heat is held from a oxy acetylene torch or similar in a dark place, not in brad daylight while cooling! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[sarcasm]I'm pretty sure you are right, it would have been such a small community in those buildings that everyone would have known exactly what each other were up to, and new york is such a caring place, where everbody cares about the people around them[/sarcasm] no one has explained the speed in which the buildings fell. until that happens demolition will always be a possible hypothesis. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

religion? bwa hahahaha you are avoiding science again and you claim that as your forte. I do not. So in your world of structural forensics, you accept that moulten aluminium glows orange rather than its usual silver reflective colour even while falling hundreds of feet through cool new york morning air? NIST seem to think so, and you seem to agree with them. or was it moulten steel falling down I suppose you could continue to avoid explaing yourself and jump on the tin foil hat bandwagon? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix