ZigZagMarquis

Well, if you buy a new line set from the factory at about $200 and then have a rigger install it... he or she is going to charge you that plus some additional amount to install the new line-set. Now go ask him or her what they would charge you construct the new line set themselves (if they'll even do it) and then install it? What's your point? Are you trying to figure out have to save a few bucks? The last couple of times I've sent my whole canopy back to the factory for a line set and had them do it, the whole cost was around $200 (slightly over). So are you sure that's the cost if you bought the line-set and had a local rigger install it themselves?

Have you seen any of the old "grey hairs" gimpin' around the DZ that used to jump PCs? Based on the condition most of them are in today... I'd say the PC did not flare.

JohnRich pretty much said it... but what the heck... I'll pile on too... Pretty much sounds like their way of saying they don't want to deal with up-jumpers... they just want the money and less bother from their "tandem factory" ops. Find another DZ.

Why?

No worries.

Lubricant on the RESERVE CABLE!!!??? I've always claned the CUTAWAY CABLES with Silicone Spray and... thus... left a LITE film of lubricant behind on them, but never on the RESERVE CALBE, just cleaned it if anything. I agree though, it looks like a stain left over from some sort of lubricant... more then just a lite film if that speculation is correct. If it were my rig, I think I'd be inclied to clean it at the next reserve repack if not sooner.

... hey GEatonSkyfly... it wasn't me, it was noctralucent that had problems here....

Good to hear. The way it read, it didn't sound to me that the "AD" on how to correct the problem was on the street yet, just that the restriction was out, with final directions on how to correct it and comply with the notice was still pending.

This is misleading. Mirage got the order correct, made to the provided measurements, the first time. On the repair (due to the customers measureing error) Mirage did blow it. They made a mistake, which they corrected at their cost, and with overnight shipping. Who knows why the chest strap was too short. For the record, I've been unhappy with Mirage in the past. In this case, I don't think thay did anythign but make a mistake and fix it as best they could. The guy who posted this though, that guy presented an edited and slanted version, painting a picture of cusotmer mistreatment and irresponsible business practices, and thats just fucked up. You're right Dave and most folks here who have been around the block a few times when it comes to skydiving, rigs, gear orders, etc. pretty much saw through it and were able to figure out what really happend. Thanks also to those who also posted "the rest of the story." For as many "horror stories" out there that customers can post, I'm sure gear manufacturers can come up with just as many regarding customers that make demands that defy logic. Its a two way street people.

Some good posts by all... but in the rush to find the villian... some good info for new folk has been blown past here... 1. If you're going to measure yourself for a rig, be really sure you know exactly how to take the measurements or get the help of someone more experienced from the get-go. A lot of rig and jumpsuit makers have those little cartoons of people showing how and where to measure as part of their ordering instructions, look for them and use them. 2. When you measure, think about what it is you're going to be wearing under your rig... jumpsuit... clothing... and measure with that on. 3. Measure twice, cut once... Its a bummer that noctralucent had a bad experience and I'd certainly be after this until happy with the rig, but this isn't a federal case either. Sounds like there's a confusion factor, some miss-communications and then this all transpired over the holidays too when a lot of folks are taking vacation or businesses are shut down... say what you want, but that's reality. In the interest of public relations, Mirage could issue an appology to the guy and comp him some of the work or something, but that decission will be up to them.

Big Red... Et All... My 2 cents... I used to jump a collapsable pilot chute back when I jumped a PD190 and experienced better flight charcteristics / landings as described in John leBanch's words that someone cut-and-pasted in up-post. However, I wouldn't say that the canopy was unlandable with a regular pilot chute. Yes, a collapsable becomes more "useful", if you will, as wing loading goes up (i.e. canopy size goes down), but it can still work and give some benifits to a bigger canopy as John said. Anyway, I too was concerned about Big_Red's prospective wing-loading of 1.21:1 with only 12 jumps. Sounds like he's at least trying to do the right things, talk to people here, talk to his instructors, learn, get some coaching, etc. I won't drag the thread off, but something popped up in this thread that I'm always currious about here on DZ.com and when hearing similar converstions at the local DZ... it has to do with "down sizing"... it usually goes something like someone says they want to downsize... why?... "well, that's what people do, right?"... "I want to jump somthing smaller"... why?... "they fly better"... my point is, a lot of times it seems peoples reasons for wanting to donwsize aren't really much of a reason at all... its more of folks following a fashion trend... now don't go jumpin' all over me... okay, I know that'll happen... just take that as a general statement and not a specific directed at any one person.

I've heard the same "DZ-lore" about "distance from the door" or a "bulkhead between the door and cockpit" and all... but have experienced pretty much the same things here as most others have posted. I've never seen an Otter Pilot actually wear a bailout rig and most of the time there is never even one on-board an Otter for him or her to put on... although, I've occasionally seen a DZ with a bailout rig on the floor, jamed between the seats and looking rather "stepped on", in a Otter. Now on a Cessna (206, 182, 172, etc.) I've never seen a pilot not wear one... as one DZO that operates both a 206 and an Otter said to me, he has a buddy who unassed himself from two C206s after someone's trash came out and took off the tail. I suppose he just figures that with the Otter, he'd just land it off field or make it back to the runway after getting all the jumpers out and that if something bad enough happened to make him want to get out (i.e. wing falls off, both engines burst into flames after meteor strike, etc), he wouldn't make it to the door before the crash... leaving from the pilot's door with #1 still turning wouldn't be an option, but it would be quick... ... then there's the left gear... ... anyway, same guy landed an Otter after a mid-air with a helicopter... helicopter crashed. Anyway, I jumped at a King Air DZ for awhile where they required their pilots to wear a bail-out rig. If I was a pilot, I don't know if I'd want to work at a place where I was expressly denied from wearing a bailout rig, especially on a Cessna, but maybe this DZ in question wasn't a Cessna operation.

True... but I've seen those come un-done too, if the person doing them isn't careful to pierce both the "outter" and "inner" line. Now don't you go selling finger trap tools to anyone! It will detract from the ritual of "riggers in training" making some of their own tools as they progress through their lessons... wax on... wax off... paint the fence... sand the floor... etc.

Bill, thank you for posting... and if I may say, I like it when you weigh in on subjects, bringing with, your undisputable expertise on the subject.

Ah... just shove it in the bag! Okay maybe not. Actually, learning to Pro-Pack is cool since you don't have to crawl around on the knees as much... so, I'd suggest you have a go learning it... but if not, you can stack-pack it. What kind of new ZP canopy are you buying??

CReWLL, Two Times?? Anyway... ya knock that pud loose on this Woomera thing, where's it gonna wind up? Behind you! Floating rip-cord, yes, a serious problem if it happens to you when you want to get your reserve out, but at least the rip cord housing stays in place and at least gives you a place to try to get ahold of the cable, strip it and still pull the pin / get your reserve out. Hand-deploy on a main vs. spring-loaded pilot chute on a main... Yes, getting a hand-deploy into clear air, in stable freefall, works at least as good as, probably better then a spring-loaded pilot chute, is a fact, but also consider the "less pain in the ass factor packing it" that makes a hand-deployed pilot chute on your main much much more inviting to skydivers too. Currious... Have you ever jumped a Woomera or seen one on person? Or jumped a rig with a hand-deployed reserve and had to use it? Why wouldn't you jump a Woomera? ... or would you??

I'll throw this out... 1. Do you think your chances are better firing a spring loaded pilot chute or a hand-deploy, if unstable, and still get your reserve out? 2. From the pics, basically, it looks like they're using what amounts to a "pull out" system to hand-deploy the pilot chute on that that Woomera reserve/container system... ever hear any thing about what can go wrong on a "pull out" system on a main when the pud gets knocked loose, but the pin is still in place? Now don't take that as me bangin' on pull-outs on mains, everything has its Pro's and Con's, I'm just saying do you want to deal with the Con's of a pull-out on your Reserve?

Interesting! ... and actually, kinda scarey looking!!! Anyway, I've heard stroies about hand-deployed reserves... usually when sitting around the DZ way too late knockin' back way too many beers with the likes of Celaya, Hank, Philly, Sparkey, etc.

Fair enough... but you may wish to not leverage your comments (posts) vs. others based simply on whether or not you're more current / have more jump numbers then someone else as you did with your reply to N23X even with your personal decissions on how much information to disclose to insulate yourself from what ever negativeity it is you wish to avoid and still be taken seriously. Sorry, its a "pet-peave" with me when I see other jumpers play the "I've got more jumps then you" or "I'm current, you're not" card. Sure, there are situations where this carries weight... but most don't... however, that behavior is somewhat pervasive here in DZ.Com and its frustraiting.

Matt, How many jumps do you have and how many years in the sport? Just currious since its not in your profile and you seem to base the value of what someone has to say on how much they jump.

What Mick said... Basically, some manufactures tell you to stuff the fabric & mesh evenly in-between the coils as you compress the spring, otherwise, a "spring-lock" can happen when the pilot chute goes to launch. Other manufactures want you to put the fabric in-between just the top coils... while still others don't want any fabric between any part of the coils. Depending on what type of spring is used is a factor, but it also comes down to the rigger should pack the reserve in accordance with the manufactures instructions. I've packed my Talon94 many times, and its a rig where Sandy's instructions are to suff the material in-between the coils to avoid a "spring-lock" and I can see where that's a good thing to do given the conical style sping he uses. I've also paced my Javelin many times where you don't stuff the fabric in-between the coils, just roll it under the cap and bottom flap afterwards. I've pulled the reserve handles on both my Talon94 and Javelin, both on the ground prior to a repack & and in the air after chopping my mal'ed main, and they've both lauched just fine... always... knock wood...

For some people buying a "modern" canopy is not an option. An original Sabre is a good choice for those who can't afford a newer design used zp canopy but don't want to buy a much older design F111 canopy. I'm still trying to get my arms around the statement that a Sabre-1 isn't a "modern" canopy, but then again I've been in the sport longer then the average 5 to 6 years...

*sigh* Rob, Forget having to do all that FAA paperwork to burn corn-liquor or bio-fuel in jump planes... It would be much easier to convert all those cars out there on the road to alternative fuels and save the dead dinosaur juice for turbine aircraft to skydive from.... duh!

Johnny... take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know all the details nor have done the research y'all are engaged in, but the reason I mentioned the "runway" thing was after hearing speak of another person here in The People's Republic of California trying to set-up a DZ and finding out that the "runway" they would have to build would be a significantly bigger construction project then they first thought... again, I don't know the details, but I think it had something to do with that since they were going to use it to operate (support ?) a business open to the public, they couldn't call it a private landing strip... and once it was no longer a private strip, then "how" it needed to be built wasn't trivial... Anyway, I'm sure you may find out that there are some questions you'd rather avoid asking because you may not like the answer... but in this case, I doubt you'd like the FAA knocking at your door one day saying you have to shut-down for what ever reason they've smoked up. Agian, good luck and I'd be currious to hear what "they" say about putting a runway on your property.

JohnnySkydive... all joking aside about how to make a small fortune... best of luck to you. Seems there's a lot of good "food for thought" here in the thread. Before I add my 2 cents... I'll qualify what I'm about to say by saying I'm not a DZO nor have I ever been; just a skydiver... Anyway, I'm sure there's many many aspects to operating a DZ, but one thing I've noticed is that DZOs are better of if they own & maintain their aircraft. I'm sure there's Pro's and Con's to doing it both ways, but it just seems that way to me. I've seen two DZs have problems with this... One was a small Cessna operation where neither of the DZOs were pilots and neither knew thing one about wrenching on an airplane. They were forever leasing this plane or that and as time passed had increasing problems finding an decent and well maintained aircraft. The other, while they had the cash to buy the aircraft, a King-Air in-fact, again, neither of the DZOs were pilots and neither knew about maintaining aircraft. Their attititude was "we'll just pay for it" and pay they did. I saw several times where even the simplest thing would go wrong on the aircraft that either could have been taken care of with a little "preventative maintenance" by someone knowlegeable during the week... or something would go wrong on the weekend and they'd be shutdown for the rest of Saturday and Sunday waiting to contact an AMP on Monday or they'd pay top dollar to get one out of bed and come work on the airplane on the weekend. Also, you mentioned putting in a runway on the land you and / or your partner own. I'm sure the rules may varry for state to state, but have you researched to see if its just as simple as "dragging & putting in a grass strip"? I don't know, but would be currious to know what you find out. Again, good luck! Let us know when the opening weekend boogie is!