ZigZagMarquis

Given the stuff I've seen pictures of that freefall cameramen used to strap to themselves "back in the day"... I'm not sure you're kidding...

I jumped a twin turbine DC-3 at Cal City once years ago, but the current owner doesn't operate it as a jump plane... it was just a one time good deal jump for us then. Anyway, it was really really weird taking off in a DC-3 and it being all quiet and turbine sounding as opposed to all the shakin' and rumblin' of a "normal" twin radial DC-3... at least we didn't have to worry about that distinctive "BANG"..."CLACK CLACK CLACK"... of a jug blowing off...

Me too! When the winds are doing 20+, its BEER TIME!! ... don't make me start drinking!

I think he is saying coil the cutter in the Cypres pouch, not disconnect it. Derek I understand this.

Lets see that... video is at least 10 years, maybe more like 15 years old, I believe. The DZ is recognizable to those familiar. Yep, the guy (student) gets a hold of the cut-away and pulls it just as the main side jumpmaster dumps his (the student's) main. ... so, do the math, as the main deploys, 3-rings disconnect, goodbye main. I wasn't there, so I won't sepeculate as to the jumpmasters actions before, during and after. Obviously no RSL... and as I recall this was in the days before mandatory RSLs on student rigs was enforced. Real bummer about the power lines...

Rob, Is that actually legal? ... you're usually pretty up on the gouge, so I'm guessing that it is per Airtec. I had thought that one of the pre-firing checks the 2-Pin Cypres' did was a continuity check to both cutters, and if one failed, it didn't fire?... thought I heard that once somewhere. So, if you used a 2-Pin Cypres' as a 1-Pin, like you describe, you may be adding the potential for another failure mode. Anyway, not that Cypres is an excuse not to get your main or reserve out on your own...

Their web-site says an I4 can take a 132 to 150 sized main... Woodpecker... good luck getting a 170 into it... I'd like to watch.

Bloody irritating for the rest of us when checking canopies on the load though. There's always that heart-stopping 0.25 of a second when you think it's a reserve. If its a big square all-white PD230 or 260 or the like, sure, but if its elliptical... DOH!

Just my 2 cents... What I've found with Sabre2's... For starters, I like the canopy. I jump a Sabre2-170 myself, but I too know what y'all mean by squirrely SA2 openings. What I've found is that much like a Stilletto, an SA2 will highlight any body position problems you have on opening more so then a more docile canopy will. So, what I've found that works for me, is at throw time, to concentrate on being level, throw your pilot chute, eyes on the horizon, arch -- put your dick in the dirt or push the bush (as applicable), and as the canopy starts to sit you up just spread the risers -- Don't try to steer the canopy as it opens. Once the canopy is open, have at it steering the canopy with the rear risers, collaps your slider, unstow breaks, etc. ... and DO NOT roll the nose on a Sabre-2 like you may have done / seen done on the original Sabre when packing, just set the nose into the center like with a Stilletto. Like I said, just my 2 cents... * passes the salt *

If you borrow a rig from a friend and wind-up having a reserve ride on it, its just plain "the right thing to do" to take care of it afterwards... e.g. find the main, freebag, offer up to pay for the repack, etc. Now on the "lenders" side... basically, my 2 cents is be really picky as to whom you'll loan your stuff out to in order to avoid problems / dissapointment. I've borrowed a rig for a handful of jumps on occassion and I've loaned one of mine out a few times... usally though that was just loaning someone my main to hook-up to their container w/ reserve because their main was down for some reason. When I was allowed to borrow a friend's rig once uppon a time it was commented to me that he only loans his rig out to folks he trusts a lot not to bounce it. I've since kinda used that as a guide line if / when considering loaning out my gear... "is this person cratter bait or not?"

DOH!

..or, replace "dropped it". with, "..pointed the nozzle the wrong way and glued my goggles to my face". ... nah... I've already seen something along those lines already happen...

I can see it now... some time in the future...

G-Girl, If you're going by what's on Alana's profile... Javelin Odyssey Stilletto 120 PDR113 Cypres ... you're yankin' his/her chain by saying its only worth $500... right!!!???!

DITTO! Bring on the inexpensive used sewing machines!! ... and I think it will be awhile before we see a skydiving rig, canopies, lines, risers, pilot chute, bags, bridles... etc... that is totally glued together...

... hats off to TomB, he said it better then I could have... but I'd like to add my observations in my 12ish years of jumping... In my time... I've seen probably a handful, half a dozen, maybe, experienced jumpers get themselves into a 2-out situation, square main & square reserve. In all cases, except one, it was as a result of a low pull on their main with an almost simultaneous AAD fire. Interestingly, I have to say, I've seen this scenario with both FXC and Cypres... obviously, the low pull & Cypres fire being A LOT lower then the same with an FXC. (Aside... I haven't seen an FXC on an experienced jumper in at least 6 years.) Anyway, of those experienced jumpers that got themselves under two squares, its probably about an even split as to whether they landed both, or chopped the main... in one case, the jumper had to or would probably have died because his main and reserve went into the dreaded solo downplane. As for the one 2-out situation I recall from years and years ago that wasn't as a result of a low pull & AAD fire combo... because the jumper didn't have an AAD of any sort... that one was and still is a mystery. The jumper got under his main and his reserve "just blew". To be honest, I don't think we ever did come up with a good theory on that one; his reserve handle was still in place, like I said he didn't have an AAD installed. Also, back in the day, when I learned to jump, I learned at a DZ that had the venerable Manta 288 mains, FXC AADs and Round Reserves with an SOS & RSL set-up in their student gear. Please note that this was just before Cypres was introduced. That set-up was used many times to successfully teach students to jump, myself included... although, I agree, that the use of a Student Cypres vs. an FXC will, should, predictably, reduce the number of AAD fires. Anyway, while I myself never had to ride a round reserve while on student status, I have seen several students, back then, have to use them. By and large, the majority that wound up under a round reserve were there after their main mal'ed and they did their emergency procedures, pulled the SOS; cutting away thier main and deploying their reserves. However, there were also a handful of students that I saw get into the 2-out situation with their square main and round reserve both out... and, if you haven't ever seen this yourself... believe me, its a lot less scary seeing a student under a sqaure and round 2-out; basiclly, the main just collapses and trails and the student comes down under the round. Predictably, as I recall, all the students that got themsevles into this 2-out, square & round, situation were because of an AAD fire. Anyway, it is undeniable that in years gone by rounds have served sport skydiving well and that rounds continue to serve well and best in military and civilian applications (e.g. paratroopers, ejection seats, bail-out rigs, etc.). Yes, in the sport skydiving world, squares have long since replaced rounds as mains and also for the most part (99%) replaced round reserves too... this doesn't mean rounds are "bad", just "less better suited." At the same time, I wouldn't be quick to say that a DZ that still uses round reserves in their student gear is "sub-standard." Remember, the purpopse of the reserve is to get you to the ground safely and while, yes, shit happens, but in theory a student's jumpmasters / DZO has done their job to properly train the student to fly that round should they find themselves under it and also shepperded them well so they don't find themselves under that round on a really bad spot or in high winds. If by some strange twist of reality, if any of us chopped thier malfunctioning main, pulled the reserve handle and a round came out... and then we got to the ground safe... I'd say each and everyone that had such an experience would think that round was "okay" as it just saved their life... and then go looking for the person that replaced their square reserve with it, but I digress... Personnally, I'm a bit more leary of FXCs then round reserves in this discussion... not that FXCs are "bad", but they are older technology that if one treats / jumps a rig with one on like it had a Cypres, you're kinda asking for it. I was always told that if you had a rig with an FXC, a good, conservative, way to keep youself out of trouble with it was to NO KIDDING be in the saddle 1500' above where it was set... this doesn't mean pulling 1500' above the setting, this means main OPEN... anyway, not to start an arguement over the merits and limits of FXC... just sharing info. As for myself, I cannot imagine ever wanting or putting a round reserve into one of my sprot rigs. All my jumps have been done using squares and all my reserve rides (all 2 of them... knock wood) have been under square reserves. Having said that though, if I ever had to use a bail-out rig with a round, if given the choice, it would be with the biggest round I could get my hands on... 28'+!!!!

Post here what it is you're looking to sell (or buy)... main, reserve, container, AAD (yes/no... type... DOM)... how many jumps the main and container has and if the reserve has any hits on it... and... believe me... you'll get lots of help.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'm sure glad y'all old timers went before us younger folks... jumped all that weird early day stuff and figured out what was a good idea and what wasn't so much...

Why wouldn't you pack topless??

In 1980 or 1981 I docked 8 th. on the first night 10 stack. That was before night crew was recognized. There is a picture of it in the Bombshelter at Perris. Spark The cameraman must have been using one hell-of-a flash to get a photo of a NIGHT 10-Stack... Just kidding...

Maybe next we can get Mr Booth to explain what a "Last Hope Rope" or "Jesus Cord" was.

Remember... He who lives by the Pie, Dies by the Pie.

Wow! White canopies that aren't reserves... Just kidding. They all look GREAT! Its just that white is not a very popular color in main canopies where I jump... the Mojave Desert... where White tends to turn to Tan rather quickly. Hey, thanks all for the pics though, they're really cool... and what's that green stuff y'all are landing on??

I agree with TomB. He said it very well in regards to students and instructors dealing with students doing their first jump or first few jumps. At the same time, I realize that Bev's initial question was in regards to students, however, there are times when it is appropriate to show the "bounce book" to jumpers with a few or even more then a few jumps under their belts.