ZigZagMarquis

Okay, so I should have said Rob has a point, but could have said it better... geeze... next we'll be arguing over what "is" "is"...

My advise on the balloon jump... don't take 15sec off of a Balloon at 3000ft... ... it tends to make MJO give you a bunch of sh*t...

Alan, MJO, To settle this... how about we mod both your rigs with Type-8 webbing for the chest strap... and at the same time, remove the traditional, but wimpy friction adapter rated only to 500lbs and replace it with a B12 snap (see Para Gear #H406) and V-Ring (see Para Gear #H315)... Anyway, we were discussing the Pro's and Con's of Hip & Chest Rings...

I've seen cut-away cables incorrectly routed on Javelin's with soft housings and back before I had the hard housing mod done on my 94Talon (e.g. when it still had soft housings), I picked my rig up from a repack and found the cut-away cables had been mis-routed by the rigger that had repacked my reserve... a) motivation for me to get the hard cable housing mod done on my Talon... b) motivation not to use that rigger anymore... c) motivation to get my rigger's ticket myself... ... so... Actually, Rob isn't all that wrong, although he may have said it differently...

Peas?? What Peas?

... unfortunately, I have to admit, I've been on both sides of this one... Anyway, I've noticed something in skydiving that I also noticed after being out in the real world for a few years after college. That is, a lot of the times, skydiving or the workplace, you'll likely to take sh*t from those so called more experienced then you, when in reality, a lot of those folks really only have a few years on you and don't really know as much as they think they do, they just know enough to puff themselves up a bit... ... anyway, I said I've been on both sides of this... what happened... I grew up a little... Now I just shine it on if I'm in the door and getting yelled at to go. Don't get out and do something stupid, e.g. sacrifice seperation, because someone is screaming go when its not an emergency. I'd love to see Bill deal with this as he described up-post... that would be a hoot... I'd even take a bit of a walk back to the DZ laughing all the way to see that. Yelling back doesn't do any good. Talking to them nicely and quietly when you get back on the ground helps most all the time. Sometimes, if its possible, I let em go in front of me the next time. There's a lot of things more worse in life to worry about then the occasional bad spot.

... just goes to show... Philly will do anything for beer.

If you're still on this quest... look up Jay Stokes, he has some, I'm sure.

NSTIW... all kidding aside... could you (or anyone really) post a pic of these "stitched risers" you speak of if you get a chance? I'd like to see what y'all are talking about.

Hey! Hoser!! Actually... not too long ago I encountered an older Javelin with soft housings... had to call up Sunpath to get a refresh on the proper routing around the yoke...

Dacron maybe, Spectra never.

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! "Pull Low for Safety" *runs away*

...your Kung-Fu is better then mine... Ah! That's right... I knew I was forgetting something... ... ... ummm... says the man that would buy Orange Spectra for his canopy if they made it...

... I've never had an auto accident driving to the DZ... but I did once get a speeding ticket driving to the DZ...

With chest rings it is easy to pull the MLW out of alignment and transfer the opening loads to the chest strap which is not designed to take that kind of load. See attachment. Sparky Sparky, good point on rigs with chest rings being more likely to "latterally load" the chest strap more so then a traditional harness without chest rings... however... given a chest strap made of Type-8 (rated at 4000lbs), do you really think it likely that a load will be imparted that will fail that? Okay, rigs with chest rings are probably more likely to have chest straps with Type-17 (rated at 2500lbs)... do you still think that could fail? ... or do you think its the attachement of the chest strap to the chest ring that will fail at some lesser latteral load and not the webbing used to make the chest stap itself, whether it be Type-8 or Type-17??? Given the types of webbing used to make the harness... baring any really really excessive wear due to gross miss-treatment / ignorance or some sort of improperly done repair or assembly... that the chances of actual harness failure are so remote as to be basically nill. In other words, even the hardest of openings would cause the canopy to blow-up, break the supension lines or break the risers OR strain the person wearing the rig through the harness long before the harness webbing itself broke??? Or am I missing something???

I'd call R.I... see if you can speak to Sandy... I'd query him about the Felxon you have in mind, I'd be a bit leary of the "soft housings", especially around the yoke... I have a 94Talon which came with soft housings for the cut-away cables... I had R.I. do what they then called a "hybrid mod" where the soft housing around the yoke was replaced with a hard housing, but kept the soft housings for the "ends" for the cut-away cables... I've got one chop & reserve ride on my 94Talon in that config and it worked fine...

And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky I'll bet Ivan Henry had one... Ivan doesn't but Hank use to have one. Sparky Yeah, and I'd bet that if you cleaned up all the stuff Hank has stashed away you'd probably find out what happened to Jimmy Hoffa... ... Anyway... back on topic... sort-a... Looks like you can buy Radar Guns on eBay and I'm sure you could find them other places. It would be interesting to do a series of experiments to see what / if varrious rig & canopy configurations can change "swoop speeds."

Yeah, right, you don't drink beer... neither does Philly...

Ah, well stated. Anyway, Kallend & Et All, Failing the 45 degree rule, what do y'all propose be used? ... probably means a new thread...

Personally, the most student jumps I ever did in a day was 2, but I did do 6 over 3 days time (2 a day) when I finished up my student status. The DZ I learned at... at that time... would mostly only let students do 3 jumps total in one day. Since getting off of student status... the most I've done in one day was 11, but 10 of those were night hop-n-pops... long story.

Hip n' Chest rings make the harness/container more flexible and more comfortable. Of course, you yourself then have to be felxible enough to take full advantage of it... so unless you're out there in freefall trying to do ala Dale Stuart stuff where you try to stuff your foot up your butt and put your left elbow in your right ear while doing back flips... err... I mean Freestyle... a fully articulated harness may not be necessary. Anyway, I have a Javelin with hip rings, but no chest rings. Why? I think the hip rings make the rig a bit more flexible and comfortable and I like it for doing RW. I skipped the chest rings to save a bit of money and also because I prefer the way the handles are without the chest rings, but that's just me.

Pretty much anyone can "fall through the hole" if they have a premature opeing in a sit. IMO... a poorly fitting harness will increase the possiblity, but that then doesn't mean that a well fitted harness will eliminate the posibiltiy either. NickD and JanM (??? MakeItHappen ???) have posted some really good commentary on this More back on topic... Hineshpatel, Thanks for the pic. I've had the reserve flap on my Talon94 do that when I get off my belly, but hadn't thought a Wings would do that since its reserve flap is more "Javelin-esque". I don't know if it would work or not... I'd have to have a Wings container in front of me, which I don't right now... but some folk who jump an old Vector2 have or used to put a rubber band around the pin-cover flap and sub-flap to keep the pin-cover flap closed in a sit... sorry if that doesn't make sense, its hard to explain, but easy to show. Ask around your DZ... above all...anything you do, be REALLY REALLY sure it will not slow down or stop your reserve from deploying!

And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky I'll bet Ivan Henry had one...

One of my many favorite Cal City stories was from a couple of years ago when I was helping Van and a couple of others R&R the #2 motor on 1PM and someone walked by and looked at me and said, "I didn't know you were an aircraft mechanic?"... to which I replied, "I'm not, but I'm an engineer, so its okay" and then I went back to turning wrenches. Anyway... Rapter... how many times in the past 30 years have we been hangin' around Cal City on a weekend drinkin beers after jumping do you think ... I know I'm good for a lot of thems since 93...

Oh great! Cops hanging around the DZ!!! I can see it now... the next generation of ADDs will include a "Fuzz-Buster" mode.