ZigZagMarquis

Well, a big reason a main is cutaway is because it IS damaged... i.e. broken lines, blown up (read... big hole in it)...

Out of necessity, yes, it happens. Mains do malfunction from time to time. I've had 3 mals... cut-aways and reserve rides in my time. Folks cutting away their main for "fun" and then using their reserve. Sure, it happens, but you gotta ask yourself how smart that is... i.e. trade a "good" parachute for, yes, a carefully packed reserve, but as yet not a good, inflated, flying, parachute... but that's a whole other subject. Basically, either you or one of your other buddies on the load chases the main and freebag down. I've chased my own trash down after a cut-away on 2 of my 3 reserve rides and also had a buddy follow me too since, invarably, the trash lands out. I've chased a lot of other folks trash down too after they had a cut-away; its good karma and kinda fun. However, if / when doing so, one has to consider the surroundings of the DZ in question... trees, power lines, houses, aligators, etc. Lukily, where I normally jump, you have to work pretty damn hard to find yourself somewhere where you cannot make a good landing (big desert... just watch out for the cactus and rattle snakes... ) I'll caveate that with one thing, generally, for students, if they have a cut-away and reserve ride, IMO, its NOT advisable for them to chase their cut-away main & reserve ride down. Rather, a student under a reserve should concentrate on getting themselves back to the DZ or as close as possible, make a good landing (or "good enough" = "walks away") and not worry about where their trash lands; that's what the DZ staff and Jumpmasters get paid the big bucks for...

Okay, do Sigma harnesses get a Y-mod too or something like it... thought that was just on Strong's??

1) Like many have said... The lumbar / back strap (forgive me if I use the wrong word, not a TI), is way way too loose. 2) She has way too many clothes on. (J/K) 3) But serioulsy... forgive my ignorance, but is the "Y-mod" to the student harness really "mandatory"? Holy Crap Batman! They jumped like that!!?? Anyway, I surfed over to Strong's website (as it appears to be a Strong Dual Hawk Tandem harness in question) and if I read SB #24 correctly... and press release circa November 1, 2006... it doesn't look like its mandatory... if it is, what am I missing?? OBTW... I'm not saying its a bad idea. It looks like all new Strong Tandem (student) Harnesses are being built with the Y-mod and all existing harnesses sans Y-mod are getting it when they cycle through the factory regardless.

Okay... a "no shit, there I was story"... I can remember back to one slow day at the DZ when a few of us were standing around outside the hangar, along with the DZO in earshot, trying to decide if we wanted to go up. It was one of those wintery days in the SoCal High Desert... for those unfamilair... persistent winds out of the west, lots of standing lenticular clouds on the Sierras, not so windy one minute but a few minutes later it would be, turbulent, look at the windsock at the experienced pit & its dead, look at the windsock at the student area and its indicating some pretty good winds out of such-and-such direction, look at the windsock at the end of the runway & it indicates some moderate winds, but a different direction then the afore mentioned one at the student pit... wait a few minutes and it all changes around... a real unstable day that happens when there's a winter storm movin' through or getting ready to... the mountain wave is running and the glider geeks all got woodies and can't wait to get a tow... I'm thinking its the kind of conditions that just want to take your canopy, collapse it and shove it up your ass... or... looks like it would be one of those jumps where the canopy ride is really turbulent and you're just hopping you drop out of the turbulence before you get to the ground, but sometimes that doesn't happen and you catch an elevator shaft right before landing and pile in. Anyway, I say something like, "Fuck it, I'm going to drink beer" and turn and leave the group of newbs... they proceede to roll in on the DZO to see if he'll take the Cessna up for just and as I leave, I hear him say something like, "That guy who just walked off to get a beer has thousands of jumps and he doesn't want to go up in this... y'all may want to think about that."

Ooooh! Look at all the dials!!!

Tom, Thanks for the post. Question... would you care to comment on the photos that Zahry put up in his OP? What level of damage would you or Chuck consider that? ... if y'all would consider it damage at all? My concern is two fold... first... some call that "minor"... not to start an argument, but I'm not sure I'd use the word minor, having said that though, I'm wouldn't use the word major either... second... it may be a bit hard to tell from the photos, but might there not be broken strands pictured there? ... if this is the case, wouldn't a re-line be in order?? A different system I know, but I once sent a PD Reserve back to their factory for inspection because of a somewhat similar issue. When presented to me for a repack (after a reserve ride), during the "I" part of the "I&R" I found "damage" similar to what's pictured in the OP on some of the reserve line... mainly the steering lines. The "best guess" of myself and the other riggers about the DZ was that during the previous packjob the rigger hadn't been careful keeping the lines out from / off of / away from the hook side of the Velcro on the pocket on the freebag. It wasn't really bad, but it was enough to notice and make you think. The rig's owner and I talked it over and decided to send the reserve back to PD for an inspection & possibly replacing the lines in question. At the time, PD recommended a complete new line kit rather than just replacing the few lines (2) in question... there were some trim issues as well that they found when inspecting the canopy.

Well... a place to start is... how much did you pay for the whole rig? What did you get for that price? Container, Main, Reserve, AAD? I'm certainly not an expert on this, just someone that's been around a bit... and I'm sure someone who's be around a bit longer will chime in... Anyway, obvioulsy you're jumping your rig, so unless you're pencil packing your reserve, a rigger is looking at it every 120 days (or what ever the repack cycle is where you're at) for an I&R, so, they think its airworthy. 3 rides on that reserve... well, that's more then 1 or 2 or none, but less then a half dozen or more and I'm sure there are reserves out there with that many number of rides on them. If presented with a Tempo 170 up for sale used... even with 3 rides on it... I'd think more about the fact that Tempo's have been out of production for ?? years now... and they went for something like $1000 US when they were new... so I'd be thinking several hundred now for that and, and a prospective buyer, might try to low ball you a bit with the "there's 3 jumps on it" factor. Anyway, all just speculation on my part. Maybe you can lurk the classifieds and see what used Tempos are going for and get a better idea. For mains, an old-school rule of thumb used to be "a buck a jump" for used mains. So if a main cost $1200 new and has 600 and some jumps on it... do the math, but that formula sometimes does and sometimes doesn't hold up these days with ZP, $2000+ mains, re-lines, etc. Don't know if any of that helps any...

Well... it all "depends". Some of, but not all of, the driving factors will be: How old is it? How many jumps does it have on it? Is it a complete rig (e.g. container, main, reserve, AAD) or just a subset of that? Are their any outstanding service bulletins needed on it? What part of the country are you in? It could be an older rig, but still perfectly airworth, but but not the latest "style" with all the "gotta haves" that seem to come out every few years... see the great quote from NickDG in my sig line... this too will drive the price or, at least, what folks think it should cost. Again, it all "depends". Its difficult to give specifics on used gear prices until you start talking a specific used rig and what its story is. I'm sure this topic has been discussed many times on DZ.com. Maybe you've done a search??

Years back, some folks making RW jumpsuits would make a "shorty" version... e.g. gripers on the arms and legs (thighs) like a normal RW suit, but the legs were "shorts". One mfgr called it "The Danno" (long story). The selling point being "cooler" for in the summer. On the legs, they were pretty much knee length shorts / spandex or otherswise tight fitting with low profile J-grips. However, since the advent of booties, big fat comp gripers and inside and outside leg grippers, they've pretty much gone by the wayside... kind impossible to have a "shorty suit" and booties... If you're talking about sit-suits like someone up-thread linked y'all to Tony Suits, then there you have it.

I too have ran into this and its always confused me too as to how it is someone can think coming out and skydiving once year or so that they can still progress through the training levels. I've tried to explain it too myself to folks, but have to admit, I probably didn't do a really good job other then to be polite and say what pretty much comes down to "these are the currency rules and if you're not going to come out more frequently and stay current, then you're going to have to repeat lots of things and not be able to move forward... so, consider getting out more often."

My 2 cents... Although I wonder sometimes if its all necessary, I like the fact that is has all the cool features (freefall speed, exit alt, deployment alt, etc. etc.) and a visual analog looking altimeter all in the same package... I kinda dislike that the analog looking altimeter is just that, its not really an analog altimeter, just a dial an needle driven from a digital source made to look like a "classic" altimaster face. Why don't I like that? While I too have had an experience much like what you describe, where an altimaster "stuck" on me... I've never had an altimaster that, in otherwise working order, quit working because the batteries died.

That's a good rule to live by. Generally, if I'm doing RW with my buddies and someone comes by and asks if they can just "lurk" the formation and watch, the answer is "No", you're welcome to join us on the next jump (or maybe this one depending on how orgainzed we are yet), but no lurkers. Lurkers can cause a lot of problems... getting under the formation and/or becoming a "surprise" to folks in the formation at breakoff like the OP described being the "classic" issue. On a similar, but somewhat related issue in general, poor break offs & tracks (or a plain lack of consideration or ignorance regarding others around you at break-off) when doing RW leading to folks dumping under others is a safety issue that has to be addressed immedieatly and firmly. I can think of two specific incidents where folks dumped under a cameraman because they didn't tack or did a shitty track and were of the opinion that everyone else left., so they were okay. Personally, I can recall being on medium sized RW load where the cameraman went low (not on purpose) and I lost track of him. At break-off, I turned to track and discovered I was going right over top of him and I watched him pull / pitch & I bareley cleared him as his trash deployed. He never saw me. On the ground his response was, "The formation broke, so I pulled, that's what cameramen do, pull when the formation breaks, right?"... yeah, if you're ABOVE the formaiton where you're supposed to be! Folks wanting to dump in place on RW loads is another pet peave of mine. It usually goes something like, "I want to fly my canopy more" or "I just got new gear" or "I just got this canopy re-lined or patched"... so I want all you guys to track off and then I'll just dump in place a few seconds after y'all leave. This is a bad habbit to let folks get into... i.e., one day they'll foget and dump under someone. If you want to fly your canopy more or have gear fear or just want to pull higher for some reason... go do a solo... otherwise, track like everyone else does at the bottom of the skydive.

... and people bang on Cal City for being "windy". I've been more concerned about BIG dust devils when at Perris then I've ever been at Cal. Well, we do get those up in the desert too...

Hmmmm... might work... but I have to admit, this reminds me of the "all Velcro" rig from years past... and we know how that worked out...

BEER!

I tell folks pretty much the same thing... they're welcome to watch and I'll be glad to explain things as they go, but it will take longer... also... if they want to "help", I charge triple... Wow! Just 11 more and under the old rules, he could have got his reserve B-License. 39 reserve rides... was this guy a jumper, like, since the beginning of time, or just a really shitty packer?

Blue Skies Rob.

We're not allowed to divulge such secrets to the public in general... soooo... I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you and eat your brain...

The faster it goes in the bag, the faster it will come out... ummm... that was a Joke, newbs

If going to a loft at the DZ say, a week turnaround is a reasonable thing to expect... as in "drop off your rig at the end of this weekend and pick it up next Sat morning"... BUT, since you're new to this and new to them, when dropping your rig off you sould ask when it will be done / be sure they know what your desired "packed by" date is. Some lofts, when you drop your rig off for a repack, when they're filling out the work invoice with you, they'll ask / write down a "need date". If you want "rush service" (the definition of rush service my vary from loft to loft, rigger to rigger) they may (likely) charge extra. Also, be sure you understand what all the charges will be for a reserve I&R. Some lofts / riggers will charge a flate rate for a reserve I&R whether they're just doing an I&R or doing an I&R plus other things like new reserve closing loop, chaging Cypres batterries, installing slider bumpers on the reserve risers, etc., but some lofts / riggers will charge you something for the I&R and then charge you additional $ for those additional things. Again, since you're new to this, when you drop your rig off for an I&R, be sure you understand what's going to be done, what could be needed and what its going to cost to avoid disappointment and misundertandings. Cheers.

He's not talking about the part of the bridle between the pin and pilot chute being too tight... although, that part being misrouted can cause a pilot chute in tow... he's talking about the part of the bridle between the pin and the main parachute D-bag being too tight. If that part of the bridle is too tight, its rare, but it can also cause a pilot chute in tow because the pilot chute cannot pull the pin because there is not enough "slack" (if you will) in the "up side" of the bridle to move the pin out of the closing loop. This can happen but is very rare (IMO). I too have seen it demonstrated, but one has to work at it just to demo it (also IMO).

All very true. An important thing in my mind to remember about the reminder Velcro is it is just (and only) that; to "remind" the packer that enough slack needs to me left on the bag side. As in, if its not there, its not a bad thing, other then its easier to "forget" or for someone who doesn't know, to miss. I've jumped a rig for years that had the "pile" portion of the reminder Velcro on the rig and the hook portion to the same on the PC bridle. When I R&R'ed the PC & bridle on that rig, the new PC & bridle had pile on the bridle, so, you'd "try" to mate pile to pile on the reminder Velcro. Obviously, it didn't stick, but still served as a measurement. I've seen this scenario a couple of times too. Its happened both times when someone popped the pin on their main in the aircraft and instead of taking their rig off to re-pin it themselves, they just laid on their belly on the floor and had someone "fix" it for them. In either case, someone else either notied the person misrouting the bridle or said, "Hey, do a pin check" and then the misrouting was found.

Yeah, but do they have to take it orally or... err... never mind...

Et All... Can I get $20 on jee?