diverdriver

You have 60 jumps and you are lecturing? BTFU. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I don't see anything listed that makes me believe this was a jump plane. Did anyone at the DZ see the crash? From the FAA website: IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 7361Y Make/Model: C182 Description: 182, Skylane Date: 05/21/2005 Time: 1330 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Serious Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Destroyed LOCATION City: VANDALIA State: IL Country: US DESCRIPTION ACFT ON TAKEOFF, MADE A HARD LEFT TURN, STALLED AND CRASHED INTO A FIELD, VANDALIA, IL INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0 # Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 1 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: CLEAR CLOUDS BELOW 12000 VIS 10SM WINDS 7KTS OTHER DATA Departed: VANDALIA, IL Dep Date: Dep. Time: Destination: GREENVILLE, IL Flt Plan: NONE Wx Briefing: N Last Radio Cont: UNICOM Last Clearance: FAA FSDO: SPRINGFIELD, IL (GL19) Entry date: 05/23/2005 Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Hmmm... don't have wing tanks huh? Might want to do a search on -300 Twin Otters and let me know what you find. Nacelle tank? I know it has a high pressure pump that supplies the engine but I didn't know there was a whole nuther tank up there on -200 Otters. I'll have to reference my Flight Safety manual again when I get a chance. I flew Twin Otters for Skydive Chicago full time for 2 years and many more part time. Over 2,000 hours in them and I've gone through the Flight Safety course for Twin Otters. Just for reference of course. You're probably right about nothing in the POH for wing seperation however there is that catch all switch called "Emergency Fuel Cutoff" that (considering this was an emergency) should have been employed. Will be interesting to find out if it was and if it was why it didn't work to shut the engine off. edit to add link for DHC-6-300 schematic. Look at item 81. It's on the left wing tip and the description is "Long Range Fuel Tank -Customer Option". They hold 44 gallons (88 total). Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Well, good question. See, PT-6s are set up so they DON'T shut down when injesting water (fly through rain showers/storms?) The reverse flow is supposed to prevent a shut down that way. Now, if enough water went in there while the engine was at idle speed that could theoretically do damage to the compressor blades. I think they might want to at least bore scope the compressor but I don't have an A&P so I might be wrong about what is needed before operating again. From the pictures it also might seem that they will need to remove the engine before trying to run it again. A compromised wing is not something you want a large spinning, vibrating mass hanging from. I'm just surprised that the emergency fuel cutoff switch on the fire panel didn't shut down the engine. Must have tweaked it something good. Seems this will be later classified as an accident since the wing was wrenched. I'll include it once the NTSB puts a report out. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Actually there are TOs with wing tanks. I believe all -300s have wing tanks in addition to the main belly tanks. Yah, seems like the cables were snapped if he couldn't shut it off with the condition lever or the firewall emergency cutoff. Very odd. Sad to see a nice bird damaged so bad. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

The SkyTruck flew at Quincy I remember years ago (96?). Thought it was pretty cool looking and climbed fast. Then I nothing was heard. I guess they finally got it certified in the US. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Ahem... that would "edited".

Seems it was a ferry flight to DelMarva. Any more info would be appreciated. Twin Otters have some pretty long wings and can catch even the seasoned pilot in a tight area. Damage listed as minor but an email that went out seemed to question whether it would fly again. So how bad is the damage really? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Dude, that's what empty field myopia is. Unable to focus on bland viewing areas. Your eyes focus on a distance that you are not aware of. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I know it's an Allison but I don't know if it's a "C20s" engine. I believe it puts out 420 SHP if that helps identify it. Don't take my word for it being ok to do 2 cycles (starts and stops) per our on the engine. You need to do your own research if you are the one interested in it. I'm just stating what I remember being told when I was looking into it. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Good luck to you two. Prayers sent.

Beat me by 2 minutes. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

This probably has more to do with your eyes focal point rather than being camaflouged. When you have "empty field myopia" your eye relaxes and focusses at a neutral point. Now, if you were looking at say a densley wooded field you would realize that things were out of focus and instantly focus on what you wanted to. But because jumprun can be 2 - 3 MILES away (above you) and you are trying to see a few 5' to 6' tall human beings it's tough to know they are of focus. Your eye has relaxed while staring at the big empty sky and is focusing (unbeknownst to you) at a point relatively close to your face. Hope that helps. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

It has a lot to due with humidity in the atmosphere on a clear day. "Haze" is what can obscure your view especially if the sky is blue behind. There's no contrast. Now, if there is a high overcast then the background is white and the plane/jumpers are dark colored they will be easy to pick out. Blue skies are bad for ground viewing. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I asked some mechanics about that 15 minute thing and I was pretty much told it's a myth on PT-6s. As long as you spin it good before putting the fuel to it you're alright. I watched mechanics start, stop, start a PT-6 a few times in a row checking stuff. I asked about the 15 minute cool down and that's when I got my answer. Now, you certainly don't want to make a habit of shutting down and then restarting 5 minutes later. Comparitively Jet-A is cheap. If we are talking Garret engines then you need to be concerned about the turbine shaft. Because it is much longer on a Garret than a Pratt it can actually bow after shutting down. That's why you always see Garret pilots hand spinning the props a few times before walking away. That's to induce a bit more cool air after shutdown. After 15 minutes, the shaft bow should be gone and starting is ok. Don't take my word as Gospel. If you are the owner operator YOU need to make a call to your respective engine manufacturer's place of business and ask these questions. Make sure you get it straight from the horses mouth. Back some years when I was researching a turbine 206 for a DZ I asked about start cycles. The response was that since the Allyson engine was originally designed for helicopter use it could withstand 2 cycles (starts per hour) and be fine. I was floored as I was expecting to hear something about 1 cycle per two hours of operating. This made this plane very attractive in my book for a small Cessna operation looking to go turbine but not wanting to outrun the packing ability of the regular crowd and go to higher altitude for nearly the same money. That was back in 1996 when I looked into it. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

TCAD should be something most DZs with large turbines should consider. It's an extra level of safety. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Not jumping anymore. Mid September last year. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I'm not an effigeeee....an effigeee.... name that tune?

The FAA has been all over the SDC Otters and they are ok with the back being opened up. You have to get the paperwork to do it but taking out the divider is not that tough. Just gotta drill the right rivets. Also, on some otters fitted for regular passenger use that "back area" is where the toilet is. So, it IS ok for people to be back there at times. We did a tabular CG for the otters and show it to the FAA each time they inspect. We run 800 pounds total if we are going to have a heavy load. I was able to fly 4 loads with 800 pounds. Seemed to work great as I needed to pee every 8 loads. But I digress. Andyman, the SDC runway is 4,500 feet long. Departing from the intersection taxiway is about 3,500. Now, consider that not all Otters are certified the same. The old -100 and -200 series have a Max Gross Takeoff weight of 11,579. Many operators run with benches in their planes. If you take the benches out you have more room and can sit tobogan style. I feel much better on the floor that way with wrestling matt flooring than benches. (personal preference). I know many operators feel that having benches help them load faster. It is more obvious where your seat is going to be (and importantly where your seatbelt is going to be) than sitting on the floor and using the belts on the side wall. There's benefits and drawbacks to both methods. I would say that if the back is open for sitting don't let anyone go back there unless you have at least 15 people on board. There's just no need to be back there otherwise. The Feds have even remarked that back in the hole is probably the safest place to be in a crash when set up for jump ops. Just remember you are sitting directly on top of the batteries when sitting in the hole. Also, don't let people sit back there if you have a bigway going out and they are NOT part of the bigway. That is unecessary weight on a large CG shift during exit. It's best to have your people who are going to be in the door on the exit sitting in the hole. As the floaters go out they come up and into position. So, you have a smooth transition of weight going aft and forward during climb out. It can help the pilot. Hope that helps. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

They don't take grandma's knitting needles anymore. Doubt they would have taken the packboy. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

God Bless him.

Me thinketh doth have hit the nail on thine head. ...stand in a crowd... "Oh look! Look!" .... watch everyone around stand and stare in that direction while you walk away.

Oh I get it!! It's the UNITED STATES Parachute Assoc. magazine and it has a picture taken OUTSIDE the US on the cover. That's the April fools. hahahahaha.... man I should have caught that the first time. If it wasn't the date being wrong then it has to be that little know fact. Geee... they really got us that time...

"I see you've met some 'skydivers'." Anyone giving you grief for that is pretty petty.

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