diverdriver

Preliminary NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20050805X01171&key=1 NTSB Identification: MIA05FA140 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Saturday, July 30, 2005 in Key West, FL Aircraft: Cessna 172S, registration: N65982 Injuries: 4 Fatal. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On July 30, 2005, about 2119 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 172S, N65982, registered to MFH Leasing, Inc., operated by Epic Aviation, Inc., crashed in the Straits of Florida shortly after takeoff from Key West International Airport, Key West, Florida. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time and no flight plan was filed for the 14 CFR part 91 personal flight from Key West International Airport (KEYW), to The Florida Keys Marathon Airport (KMTH), Marathon, Florida. The airplane was destroyed, and the commercial-rated pilot and three passengers were fatally injured. The flight originated about 2118, from Key West International Airport. The U.S. Coast Guard (U.S.C.G.) was notified that evening of a boater hearing a loud sound and seeing a flash of light. The U.S.C.G. sent a boat and investigated the area but personnel on the boat noted nearby thunderstorms with lightning. Additionally, the evening of the accident a ramp search of the Key West International Airport was performed; there were no reported discrepancies. The following morning at 0813, a boater contacted the U.S.C.G. and reported seeing a wing sticking out of the water. The U.S.C.G. responded, secured the wing, and initiated a search for the wreckage, part of which was found on August 2, 2005. The recovered wreckage so far consists of the empennage with attached horizontal stabilizers, elevators, vertical stabilizer, and rudder. A portion of the pilot seat, and other small debris has been collected and secured. According to the manager of the Key West International Airport, a security camera on the airport captured images of the airplane taxiing and departing which occurred at approximately 2118. According to preliminary air traffic control information, an occupant of the aircraft established contact with the Key West approach control at 2118:55, and requested VFR flight following to The Florida Keys Marathon Airport. A discrete transponder code was provided (0210), but there was no recorded radar data with the assigned code. Additionally, there was no reported distress call made by the pilot or any occupant of the airplane. Index for Jul2005 | Index of months Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Thanks your royal hotforkness! Be safe all. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Just to let all who are interested or have used www.DiverDriver.com that the forum has been updated and works much better. Direct link: http://www.diverdriver.com/forum/index.php Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Same guys that pieced back together the original FrankenOtter with parts from the old 30EA. It looked like their own little mad scientist project tucked back in the corner. But they do a hell of a job. Right outside their hangar there west of Calgary, Canada (Spring Bank Airport?) they have the "Otter Graveyard". It's all of the recovered Otters they've taken in for parts. There is a photo album to go with the graveyard that shows some of the crash sites (if involved in a crash) where they recovered from. It'll send chills down your back to walk the yard. George is good people and everyone is nice up there. Had the pleasure of spending two weeks up there while they did work on 10EA and the new 30EA. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I hope some of these dropzones go out of business. I'm tired of dropzones refusing to absorb the fuel cost increase. Every other type of business has been able to do this sucessfully. It's all lies. Do you think the jumptickets will ever go down once the fuel gets cheap again? Yeah! It hasn't happened yet. Crooks. Ahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!! Ahahahhahahahahahahahahahha!!!!

Thanks John. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Thanks. Probably not then. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

From the FAA website: IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 908PL Make/Model: PC6B Description: PILATUS Date: 07/16/2005 Time: 1150 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Unknown LOCATION City: SAN JOSE State: Country: CR DESCRIPTION ACFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THERE WERE SIX PERSONS ON BOARD, THREE PERSONS WERE FATALLY INJURED AND THREE ASSUMED FATALLY INJURED, PAVAS, SAN JOSE, COSTA RICA INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 6 # Crew: 2 Fat: 2 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 4 Fat: 4 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: NOT REPORTED OTHER DATA Departed: Dep Date: Dep. Time: Destination: Flt Plan: Wx Briefing: Last Radio Cont: Last Clearance: Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Like the larger fuel bill didn't tip them off before? m'k....

That name sounds familiar but can't place him right now. Damn shame that collision happened. Just out fishing with the grandkids and wham! Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

scrubbed! edit: dang, beat me to it. Dang dial up.

My prayers for safety and success.

That's sad. He's going to miss out on so many more parties yet to come. At least he got to do one tandem. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Anyone?

I found this news article. Anyone have any info or has this already been posted? http://www.pjstar.com/stories/071105/POL_B6USQ9R7.045.shtml Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

An experiment was done years ago on a dog. A bell would ring and the floor would momentarily be electrified on one side of the cage. The dog would jump to the other side of the cage which was not electrified. They then would ring the bell and momentarily electrify the floor. The dog would jump to the other side that was not powered. After awhile they would ring the bell and the dog would jump even though the floor was not powered. After a bit of this they would ring the bell and power the floor. But now the floor on the other side was powered on all the time so the dog would jump back where he came from to find that floor too was powered. Eventually, even though being electrocuted, the dog just layed down and took it. This is the attitude we now have in the sport of skydiving today. They are no longer reactive to the electrocution. They just lay down and accept it (well, some fight for a better way despite the odds). Some call it a "cavalier attitude". Some call it "acceptable loses". Some just post "if you're in the sport long enough you'll know someone who dies so get used to it". Some who post on this forum and others believe that there is still another way. We do NOT have to accept these losses. That is what helped motivate me to do a jump pilot website. Has the accident rate gone down? I don't know. We'll only be able to judge this time period when looking back 10 years from now I think. Others may disagree with that view. I had a conversation with Roger Nelson about a week or two before he died. I found myself chatting with him in the middle of his wonderful facility with vibrant, smiling people milling around about a fatality that had happened. We talked dispationately about the accident like we were giving directions to the local gas station. I paused for a moment then said to him "Are we that numb to a person losing their life that we talk about it like this?" His answer was basicly "Yes." We do get numb to the constant barage of fatality / injury info that comes to us. At first it effects us whenever we read about anything bad. Then we begin to only react emotionally if we knew the person well. We just lay down... and take it. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Looking for info on Pete Stone. Jumper over there. He doesn't post on DZ.com any but maybe someone who does has talked to him since this started? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

It's not unique? People can jump turbines much easier now all across the country. "Specialty Aircraft" are confirmed and then don't show up (not blaming WFFC it's just what has happened). There have been changes (It moved from Quincy to Rantoul) and some people are just tired of dodging bad canopy pilots all the time. I'm glad I've gotten to do both Quincy and Rantoul. Quincy was better. I think it's because Rantoul is so close to the city. Not sure but the vibe (for me) changed. The helicopter has changed (Rod Tiney rocks!) and people may not find the current line up appealing. Don't count out the WFFC for large attendance though. A new generation of jumpers have never experienced the World Freefall Convenction and so a new vibe will be created and a new momentum could be generated.

Sean was good people. Blue Skies. Could someone post a snapshot of Sean for those who did not know him? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Air Wisconsin just hired someone with 392 TOTAL TIME. Rare, thankfully, but it does happen. Now we'll see if they make it through training. Hmmmm.... from 172 flying 105 knots to swept wing jet with high by-pass turbofans doing 470 knots TAS at FL 290. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Be safe. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

How many on board? Global Express is a corporate plane. They were cursing huh? Were they saying "I'm such an f'n idiot for trying to save time in extreme conditions!"? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Anything less that 6,000 feet is considered to be getting "short" for the CRJ. Santa Barabara is 5,800 feet useable. Oh, yah. It felt good. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

After reading the transcript I really don't think they tried to make it anywhere. They just found themselves there when they realized they couldn't get the engines started. They mentioned Coulumbia (COU) but were coming up short and they asked for nearest airport and the controller responded with JEF. But yah, they covered a lot of territory to get there. A turn to the right and Sullivan (UUV) might have been an option. But... they were have so much difficulty dealing with the situation picking an airport almost seems trivial. It just wasn't going to happen. They even asked for any roads around there when they realized they weren't going to make the airport. Had these guys been diver drivers I think they would have had a better chance. We're used to gliding and landing power off. Long before this accident happened I had the chance to glide a CRJ for 23,000 feet. LAX Center hung us up going from DEN to Santa Barbara (SBA). We did the idle descend out over the water from 20 miles out. I arced it back in and configured to flaps and gear down. I boosted power just a tad to keep the GPWS from barking at me and even at that it still yelled at me. I put it on the 5,800 runway with ease. That was day. That was under no pressure knowing that both engines WERE running. And that was having A LOT of power off gliding to landing experience (3,000 hours flying jumpers and 700+ jumps). These guys didn't have much of a chance I think looking at what was going on in that cockpit. It would have been a miracle had they lived through it. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Yep... we have an air driven generator ( I think that's what you were refering to). It just generates electrical power which just runs one AC Hydraulic pump. Not great but you have some pressure. In this accident it did auto deploy. But it's much better to have the engine driven pumps going providing hydraulic pressure. You have more control and you don't have to accelerate more. The book says to expect a 5,000 foot loss of altitude to accelerate from 240 to 300 knots. So you need to start your acceleration at 26,000 feet so you have the maximum relight envelope. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125