FLYJACK

Gunther explains it in the book.. contacted the FBI late summer 1972,, and Himmelsbach acknowledged sharing info with Gunther (interview).. probably where he got some of the inside stuff... Plus, Himmelsbach got the Clara letter...

You haven't addressed the facts, you make irrelevant assumptions about Gunther's character.. You haven't even presented an argument.. My conclusion is on based on facts.. yours is based on nothing. You always do this,, you have a strong opinion that you can't defend because it isn't based on facts, just feelings. So, you try to defend that opinion by pulling in irrelevant tainted elements like Jo Weber or attack the credibility of the messenger but never address the facts.. Opinions are worthless without a good argument that back them up.

Your argument is not just irrelevant it is wrong. He wasn't niche, he had a varied career.. that doesn't change anything. If you think he made up the contact with somebody claiming to be "Cooper", named two others also contacted then went to FBI with the info to fabricate a mediocre book then good luck.. Weber is irrelevant..

Gunther named two other people who had been contacted by the person claiming to be Cooper.. Ed Kuhn an editor for Playboy Press and Mark Penzer editor-in-chief for True Magazine.. So, there is no way that Gunther made up it up and contacted the FBI.

Most of the tie particles are sand/feldspar...

I did a FOIA for anything on Gunther, Cooper related or otherwise and the FBI had nothing to add but said anything would be in the released Cooper files. That is their standard answer now. My only conclusion so far based on the facts is that Gunther did not make up the entire story,, he must have been contacted by a hoaxer or the real Cooper..

Captain Thomas Spangler,,, later Major. The Air Force map was furnished to the FBI on Nov 25/71, not months later.. initially calculated by hand it had a 1 mile error. It was later recalculated using a more precise method and had a 0.5 error,, I have never seen an updated map. The Portland radar operator said the plane was about 1-2 miles East of the center of V-23 not East of the "FBI" path.. the "FBI" map had the plane a few miles East of the center of V-23. There is no argument for the Western Flight Path.. somebody stick a fork in it. Spangler didn't create the Air Force map, a unit at Sage did. Interesting, after the sled test Spangler and Soderlind independently came up with nearly identical drop zone maps. Spangler corroborates Soderlind's drop zone. Radar data furnished by Spangler,, (not produced)

Haven't you been paying attention... that makes no sense and doesn't address the question. Would Gunther, a well respected and successful author of mostly financial non fiction books take a hoax he created to the FBI, a Federal crime. Would he risk his reputation and career for a mediocre book in the mid 80's... when there was no reason to go to the FBI. The fact that he went to the FBI with his info and even named another person that the "Cooper" contacted gives that part of Gunther's book credibility. Gunther would have to be dumbest guy in the world to bring his manufactured hoax to the FBI in order to write a mediocre book... a book in which he admits the contact may not be from the real Cooper. The question is,, was he contacted by a hoaxer or the real Cooper.. A third option brought up by "Math of Insects" would be that Gunther was initially contacted by somebody claiming to be Cooper then made up the later Clara contact but that has issues.

Gunther wrote mostly non-fiction (financial) books but he wrote both fiction and non-fiction magazine articles... that doesn't tell us much. The Cooper book is largely fiction and researched with some errors.. but IMO he did not make up the contact from a person claiming to be Cooper.. The story Gunther told was via "Clara" who probably made up most of it and his own fiction. Because the book contains fiction it is natural to assume it is all fiction.. So, I am looking at the arguments... Gunther named another person that "Cooper" contacted. Not something a hoaxer would do. Cooper ended contact abruptly for some reason. Resumed 10 years later by "Clara".. If Cooper lost the money, he would have a motive to sell his story. If he didn't lose the money then unlikely. Cooper demanded the notes and matches back not due to fingerprints,, due to writing, the matchbook had writing on it. Cooper was not concerned with prints, he left the cig butts and offered money with his prints, handled a cup, left the tie, touched lots of places.. Cooper was not concerned about prints. He wanted the stuff with writing back at a time when he believed he was going to be successful. Later, if he lost the money and is back East he thinks he can sell his story.. "Clara" never asked for money but wanted to promote the narrative that Cooper was a good guy and had died.. this is inconsistent with a hoax. Clara's narrative is consistent with two Cooper letters. (They were identically written and heavily redacted). It sounds like an associate wanted to publicize Cooper's death to end any search for him... probably false. Cooper was described a middle aged loner... Gunther's audience. There are a couple other things I have to hold back... So, I am interested in the arguments for a hoax,,, more than an opinion.

Why.

No way.. Why contact the FBI if it was his hoax.. makes no sense. There is no benefit and potentially serious charges. Too much personal risk. When the FBI brushed him off he wrote the book.. He was contacted by somebody... Granted the book is mostly fiction, embellishments and research (some wrong)...

I know,, it contains fiction.. that isn't in dispute. He used fabrications and research to write the book. Do you think Gunther fabricated the contact from a person claiming to be Cooper?? Others have also said they don't believe/buy the Gunther book, but that is too simplistic. Gunther contacted the FBI and gave them info,, if that were false that would elevate a benign hoax to a serious crime.. That is a big risk and career ending move. I can't see him doing that for a mediocre book. The real question,, IMO.. was he contacted by the real Cooper or a hoaxer. Gunther even claims he doesn't know for sure.

What does that mean,,, others say the same but it can mean Gunther made it all up or he was contacted by a hoaxer.. I believe he was contacted by somebody,, either a hoaxer or Cooper..

Since I am in Canada not much I can do,,, It would be easier to test the card/pocket on that chute than getting the tie from the FBI.. I would expect anyone who removed the card to leave DNA on the inside lip of the pocket..

There is no good reason to examine that chute.. 99.9% probability it matches its packing card. It doesn't advance the case in any way. There is a reason to try for Cooper's DNA on the card and pocket and there wouldn't be many people sticking their hands in the pocket. I bet Cooper's DNA is on the inside edge of the pocket. Examining the chute is entirely irrelevant for this case and may jeopardize potential DNA, the only value that rig has is the potential DNA.. My priority is to solve the case, what is yours..

Nope,, you are wrong. The packing card and the pocket may still have Cooper's DNA... they were not touched a hundred times. Maybe half a dozen. The card/pocket are similar to the tie except we don't need to go through the FBI. Opening the chute and checking it is completely irrelevant for this case. The only relevancy for that chute is the potential DNA.. You have your priorities screwed up.

because you may further contaminate potential DNA.... not hard to understand

I meant the parachute size or type is irrelevant to advancing the case. Now, having it checked by a rigger is a big mistake. DO NOT DO IT. Cooper pulled the card from the pocket and replaced the other card.. His DNA may be on the card or the edges of the pocket.. What should be done is the back chute card and pocket area is sampled for DNA... of course there are other people who have touched those areas. Cossey, Hayden, Reno chute inspector, rigger who repacked it and maybe FBI agents.. Still, probably fewer than the tie and you don't need approval of the FBI.. just the museum.

That container is a Pioneer P2-B-24 from the early 40's.. the parachute was Sept 1957. The harness was April 1957. Remember, it was an emergency bailout rig required to meet regulations... Hayden never intended to use them. But that rig at the museum is largely irrelevant.. the key take away is that the FBI had both of Hayden's back chute packing cards and didn't realize it.. the back chute Cooper used didn't match Cossey's description and they were looking for the wrong chute,, it may have actually been found but rejected.

The Hayden Pioneer chute, the one left on the plane returned to him was repacked twice after it was returned to Hayden.. There is no Cossey seal on it.. Cossey originally packed and filled out the card 26' Ripstop Conical SN 226 Sept. 1957.. the subsequent rigger never changed anything on the card. It is not an NB6/8, it is a P2-B-24 from the early 40's

Yes, there is another document from 1976 in which the FBI admit the witnesses and evidence is not good enough and that only the co-operation of "Cooper" could bring a prosecution.. The only thing that has changed since 1976 is DNA tech...

No, I am not... What I said is 100% accurate. The P2-B-24 container was made in the early 40's and originally came with a silk chute.

Wrong,, The chute is a 26' according to its packing card.. it was also repacked after Hayden got it back. The container is a Pioneer P2-B-24... So, the container is a 24'

Hayden got back the 26 ft SN 226 Sept 1957 back chute in 1975,,, now at the museum The July 1960 SN 60-9707 card is for Hayden's other back chute found on the plane in the pocket of chute SN 226 and most certainly belongs to the chute Cooper used.. So, Cooper chose the newer chute and Cossey's description was false..

We assume that because something was in the FBI files and looked at by the FBI that is was resolved.. It is a good assumption but not always accurate... the FBI didn't realize they had both of Hayden's back chute packing cards and were unable to actually read the cards properly mixing up the descriptors for the data..