rehmwa

Clearly - a SAWZALL rocks. nor is there a really good replacement for a 12 pound sledge (except maybe a 15 pound sledge) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I can think of about 8 other posters than you who be crushed into the dirt for that statement. Of course it would be a strawman and a purposeful misread along the lines of - "no one deserves to be raped" or "sure, they were just asking for it" (I don't believe you meant that, clearly. Just commenting on the recent posting here in Speaker's Corner, it's been particularly painful and pointless due to those tactics). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Except, of course, the aforementioned death by cop trap. Which is not nothing. I'd like the phone. I'd donate $1M by phone to the Treasury department. Since more Government money fixes everything, I'd say that should fix society and the killer will suddenly decide to sing little songs and bring us a basket of fruit. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

c'mon - there's 3 types of deniers 1 - don't believe it exists 2 - think it might, but not man-made (or man accelerated) 3 - think maybe it is, but might be beneficial $top denying what thi$ can bring to an exclu$ive group of leader$ ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Reductio ad absurdum really? have you been paying attention at all to the language police? clearly you are just insensitive to the great contributions and issues of our returning vets and current servicemen, which is largely composed by people of both sexes as well as from low income backgrounds. I guess you are just fine with war on those brown people from other countries.... Many citizens are also traumatized mentally and physically by violence and war while you sit and play video games. How insensitive.... or are you just a Harry Potter fan in extremis? I'm ok with that (that was fun....wow, being a liberal is really liberating...... - and yes, I do agree with your assessment, but it's less and less surprising to see the absurd come to reality) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

violence offends people - so does war as the culture evolves and, inevitably, the social conscious people decide that the word "war" is offensive, then do we mandate another name change? Or, do we just wait until the owners decide to do it for business relations reasons You don't buy their stuff and you make sure they know it. I think that's the real pressure and how it should work. Once enough like minded people do it, then the group will change the name because it makes business sense. Now - Legal or political pressure under threat of law would be over the top - but what you are doing (personal choice and awareness) is the best and only acceptable mechanism - IMHO> ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I'm offended by the term "snaky" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

this - ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you did. It was just a general question to the thread. If we can all agree that racism is wrong, no matter who does it or what the target is, then how can anyone defend the Redskins' name? I don't really defend it or support it. I would like to know a couple things though: 1 - When it was established, was it perjorative? Is it used now perjoratively (in the context of the team, not in general)? (How about in general? I think it could be considered so, generally.) 2 - Do the local native americans find it perjorative? or is it only entitled white activist types in the area? 3 - Where are those that opposed it, primarily, from, are they even locals to the home team? 4 - Who wins ($$$$) if the goal to change it succeeds? Does someone have something more substantial to win here other than just generalized social grief considerations? 5 - If they change it, then can that be pitched as a tacit acknowledgment that it's a perjorative? then, if so, will they then be sued like crazy for emotional damage by litigious asswipes that wouldn't care if they couldn't get $$$ from it? I tend to be a bit cynical in these things, but if I saw an overall objection to it by multiple groups of native americans, (not just a small group of very loud activists) then I'd support their position. perjorative stereotypes of ALL kinds are just mean and non-productive. I get even more depressed about it when I hear a group fighting for something like this then turn around and belittle the opposition in the exact same way (rednecks, etc) it's enough childish back and forth crap thank you very much and entirely hypocritical and low brow. I like the comment about everyone having thicker skin in general to be the big winner of the thread. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Whoooosh. He nailed it, if a bit gently. he did nail it for that matter - "it doesn't bother me, I'm better than that. I have different rules for different races" seems like a pretty self superior attitude that perpetuates the problem. Even if the intent is the opposite. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

fix it for you - we see many communities with great individuals like that. They really are the ones being hurt the most by those misbehaving (the subset of their members and the subset of the cops) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

this is the only clear post on here and it even manages to not attack or belittle anyone on either side of the argument. Item's 2 and 3 apply to both sides of the debate (if one has to split it into two and not more facets) and item 3 can be extended to include also the point that "the idea that the problem is that "all cops/black people act like this....." would complete it for me in terms of how over generalization and bad history creates this crap out of thin air nicely summarized ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

you can claim victory if you like, but I think your strawman "completely unregulated" is a bit over the top, but if it makes you feel good about it, I'm happy for you If you like, I can rebut with a statement about the government controlling every detail of every moment of every individual and claim it's a bad idea too. then I can claim victory as we both talk past each other waving victory flags. Maybe a parade will break out. that would be cool. I was more about how 'over' interference by industry and 'over' interference by the government are both bad - clearly you want to discuss just 100% vs 0%. different topics, but I'm sure much easier to process as a simple minded position. Feel free to claim I want dirty air and polluted water, that's a fun tactic. Sharp knives in kindergarten is a lot of fun too.... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Are they privileges? do you always answer a question with a question? Have you heard of Socrates? wasn't he some old guy? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I'll draw a line there. I think that does cross into a rights issue and the government cannot stipulate it into a contract with it's citizens. Find me an analogy where the military, general public service or private businesses can do that. Even if you find a private biz that can - (a private biz might have a standing actually if the the contract is voluntary though it would still be wrong (modeling agencies noting that if the model gets pregnant for a certain period then the contract would be void, etc......) ----------- but the gov? - no, hard to accept that one I suspect a private charity could do so though - go on the pill or we won't help you...... (to the original drug testing question - actually, your post has me reevaluating my debate position on the original discussion more than Normiss' weak emotional appeals for (essentially "unequal treatment because I feel sorry for some and not others") and Kallend's snarky posts more than anything - it's turned it from a "right vs wrong vs legal" discussion and into a "where do we draw the line if we even can draw a line" discussion.....) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Are they privileges? do you always answer a question with a question? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Again - No, we have not "all decided" - if drug testing is a prerequisite for the job and the employee agrees to those terms, that's the contract. A contract can be put in place for public employment, private employment, or to receive public assistance. BTW - employment is a 'benefit'? seriously? Terms of contracts can be anything. As long as both parties agree. If you want income, you agree to the requirements or find it elsewhere. It doesn't matter if it's a job, or freebies. Unemployment for example requires one to come in person on a regular basis, it requires one to show proof of a job search - OMG the incredible SUFFERING..... You guys all believe in different rules for different people. I find that continually distressing. for me: 1 - is it a constitutional rights issue: - I don't think so, people can enter into any contract voluntarily - pre-requisites for benefits are already in place and working. The analogies to employment pre-requisites are absolutely applicable. The status of the applicant and kind sympathy for their plight is interesting but moot to the discussion. 2 - is it worth doing: - I don't think so - it's way too inefficient, costly, time consuming, and inaccurate. If that changes, then a reasoned discussion is worth having about pros vs cons. you can't use #2 to make a case against #1 - it's a totally separate discussion - trying to do that is just disorganized ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

then you do also think drug testing of military or anyone in public service is not constitutional too? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I disagree - making a drug test a pre-req for getting and continuing to get social program benefits is not force force is them taking them to jail and testing them, or putting them in jail if they refuse - worse case here is they are just denied benefits social benefits are not rights protected under the constitution, they are bribes for voting and 'help' plans - as such they can have any strings attached that congress wishes to arbitrarily invoke. another analogy - highway or education funding comes with strings attached - else it's denied - is that involuntary force by the government? Heck no - right or wrong, it's the standard operating procedure (the fact that this testing is not feasible at this time is my big sticking point) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

chill out - you guys are talking past each other - like I said, different assumptions going into the discussion Normiss is one of the most reasonable posters on here ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

so - if you have to work for it, it's ok to have your rights removed ----but if it's free - then it's a tragedy I think (on this issue) that we are operating under very different ground rules ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I'm of this mindset during PLF training - I want to see a couple good ones. Then I emphasize feet and knees together and bent. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I think this is more important than PLFs. with this comment, I am NOT saying that we have to choose one vs the other. Please don't strawman that. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

I get benefits from my job - so do military personnel - like an income - health benefits - day care is an option - legal benefits - some even give me a work phone - military even helps with housing - disability I guess those aren't like any of our government entitlement benefits at all are they? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

So we are all guilty until we prove ourselves innocent; Got it. I just want to make sure then - you think that the current practice in the military to take drug testing is unconstitutional? Or are you guys just pretending to be obtuse to mess with Anvil (not that I don't appreciate it for the entertainment value, but that's more Billvon's style than you or Normiss) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants