rehmwa

Then don't argue with those posters. Argue with the ones talking substance, or start your own substance. Otherwise you're just feeding the arguments of quibblers. Wendy P. that's right - that's why we are on the Pro-Goodness team Instead of the Pro-Evil team ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

That's the main issue. She is "only" arguing the point of the woman having the choice to abort or not. It neglects the point that choosing to have the baby doesn't end at that point - then the child must be raised. That's the true responsibility that's being declined with abortion (9 months? yes. But also the next 16 to 30 years after that). The man doesn't have a say in the 9 months parts today - that's acceptable. With that, nerdgirl is done and can claim victory. But that's not the part I'm discussing. I'm talking about the next 20 years after. But she's not acknowledging any of that discussion. It's too sticky and the logical results (Distasteful as it is) is just not in line with the pro-choice position on the same. that's the sexist part of the policy. it doesn't allow the man to abort that part. Which I think is the moral equivalent of the women's right to choose. again, the logical retort for the status quo is simple, (after birth it's a child, before the birth it's just a parasite - therefore the man 'aborting' the responsibility is so much worse than the woman aborting the 'exact same' responsibility by disengaging earlier in the process) - 1 - HOW CONVENIENT for the woman. 2 - it's just to sticky to argue so better to avoid it edit: in the end, it's really simple an abortion is not just to end a pregnancy (most cases) - it's to decline a very serious and long term commitment that will last for years and that's understandable my point is simply, if the woman has that right, so then should the man 1 both abort - no problem 2 she aborts, he doesn't - too bad for him, it's her body 3 he aborts, she doesn't - it's her body, but she's on her own after 4 - she doesn't, he doesn't - well, they both will raise the child that results, good luck to them, hope they find a way to do it it's the only way allow both partners this 'autonomy' that's apparently so important ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

that's the one that does it for me. I'm normally a center person, and if I can't see what EVERYBODY is supposed to do, I am not doing my job in terms of flying for the whole team, not just my individual move. I need to feel the whole team in play. This visualization helps give you a 'court sense' to pull a term from another sport ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Next time you see an anti-life person, ask them if they support the legalization of drugs, same sex marriages, the blank panthers, the ku klux klan, etc... gotta watch out for the Blank Panthers - tough crowd, and they really blend in. Not very opinionated though ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

nonsense she aborts, the problem is over she doesn't abort, she has to raise a child he 'aborts', the problem is over he doesn't, he has to raise a child 4 possibilities 1 she aborts, he aborts - no kid, everyone moves on 2 she aborts, he doesn't - his decision is pointless, everyone moves on 3 she has the kid, he 'aborts'- she raises as a single parent 4 she has the kid, he doesn't 'abort' - they come to some arrangement to jointly raise the kid (includes the options of 2 parents, single female parent with financial support, single male parent, single male parent with financial support, etc etc etc) it's still not perfect parity, option 2 leaves the father with a powerless position - but we'll let the 'her body' trump the alternative which we both find distasteful but in today's world, #3 is not allowed and that's the equivalent of forcing the woman to bear a child she wants to abort in short, you want to remove any choice from the man - and relegate him to only responding in the 'approved' manner to whatever the woman chooses that's anti-choice for him I'll completely join the choice crowd as soon as they make it non-sexist I only partly join it now because of the exceptions. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

yes, she was a preemie, and she was 100% covered from day 1 at the best NICU in the states Bethesda Naval Hospital ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Yep, that’s what I’ve suggested. Quote so, for the sake of equality, then you do agree the man should be able to 'opt' out of supporting a child that he disagrees with having? it's the only equivalent to the woman being the sole decider to abort or not both are autonomous, both do not force the other partner to take part in their choice edit: the 'circular argument' thing was just acknowledging that you rewrote your original note. I read it the first time - it wasn't any better or worse the 2nd time other, my last post posits a way that allows autonomy for both parties on the subject - it's just not very PC. That's a far cry from what you say I'm pushing. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

pro-profit, but they are a business and apparently you had a crappy policy ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

sorry, I guess I'm pounding that same drum for entertainment purposes, but now that I'm arguing it, I'm starting to think it makes more and more sense ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

That's just a circular argument. The short of it is equality. To the best that anatomy allows anyway. Men and women must have the same choices in terms of having sex. So that's given. Do it or not. Protect yourself or not. They should have the same choices for any decision point afterwards then. This is tougher isn't it? It's easy to give the women an out but lay the cost on the man if the woman opts to have the child. Typical of people with a very patriarchical and male dominant viewpoint. (is it spelled 'misogynistic'?) So - The women is to have the ability to correct her mistake with a very extreme and morally undefinable act. But the Man doesn't have that option too? UNFAIR If one really considers that the woman has the sole choice to bear the child, then one must concede that the man doesn't have that option IN ANY WAY AT ALL. Therefore, his 'choice' is to also to totally reject his responsibilities in the matter as well. A different, but equivalent, type of 'abortion' - also morally difficult to define and equally reprehensible. But, really, why should he also be 'punished' with a mistake? The man can't choose for the woman to have the baby. So the woman should not be able to choose for the man to 'have' that baby as well. Equal - at all times. The current proposed policies are hypocritical. The woman chooses, but the man doesn't. And people don't even realize how 'male dominated' that attitude is..... You do believe in equality? Don't you? It's easier to assume the landmine=men thing. And more fun. I think it's more accurate in many cases too. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

She's the one on the right. It was brief stint at child acting - until her voice changed ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

again, that would be balanced by Liberals giving 25% of their income to the local meditation/crystal center and another 2% of their income to their housekeeper and landscaper - and calling it 'charity' for that matter, paying your packer - better add that to the tally if you follow the liberal 'charity' model, we should count nearly all of our tax burden as 'charity' - especially local and school taxes I give and I give, and nobody even knows actually, if I were to follow the liberal model - I'd get a law passed that would force you to give 50% of YOUR income to the local perverted art school - and then I would write it off on MY taxes as charity. THEN, following the conservative model - If I were to then get the government to buy 7 aircraft carriers, I would write off that portion of my taxes ALSO as charity I continue to give - ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Welcome to the thread! absolutely fantastic ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

exactly, no need to go further no need for the warning, I'm extremely happy at this very point in the debate and would like to subscribe to your newletter - or encourage you to write one ok, I'll read the rest of it edit: ok, lots of big words, but mainly, the man is (most of the time ) autonomous up to a point in time - ejaculation That's fine, he responsible for anything - up to that point in time. But not the consequences, since it's all owned now in the woman's body. Treating the man like a landmine is the underlying position of the pro-choice and feminist (extreme) version efforts. So this is exactly the point I'm making. If the 'father's' position is value zero, then all aspects of his participation in the entire structure is then, also zero. You can't take away his responsibility and only leave culpability. There has to be a mutual choice in it's place to justly assign culpability. Either that, or we are just both acknowledging that the simple chestnut of "her body, her decision" is really way too simplified to apply to reality at all. But that's just sneaky. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

and cheeks that have expanded every single year since she came into public view - don't forget that - chipmunks are in awe so should we all ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

OH, so that's it! So then the whole "Bush did it first" is what the left is going through? ok, that makes a lot more sense anyway, what's the deal about Hillary Hillary was a child actor of unique appearance and ability. She starred in many films growing up and turned into a nice young woman. At some point, she decided to get a nose job. We don't see her much in movies any more. I can't recall if it's the Duff girl - cute or the Swank girl - horsefaced, but with some acting awards we are talking about ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

er - it's a thread about stereotyping political views (and discounting religious donations from being charity is really arbitrary. Especially when liberals call the salary they pay their housekeepers to be charity contributions also) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

not true - women are responsible only men are just culpable and that's the unfair disconnect now, isn't it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

So, if you could legislate it, would you restrict abortion on demand if the sole purpose was to actively select the gender of the offspring? since it's a 'social' problem to allow it seriously, I wonder where each individual draws their personal line (they are all different - it's why it's funny when they band together and use the same quotes) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Andi has it right. And, if one person cuts a pinky on a loose piece of flashing, look for the lawsuits. Better off just disposing of them all than take chance on a jury verdict for liability from someone that wouldn't be grateful for the charity. Edit: I gotta admit, though, I wish some people would come to our DZ and haul away about a fourth of the trailer-piles we have. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Describes at least half the people here in SC myself included! and, of course, this thread is strictly about each poster wrongly stereotyping the "other guys" so it's just like the other threads ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

surprised? - the party of 'the end justifies any means' combined with a highly unionize industry in action it's a piece of art now let's bash the source, the author, and statistics in general without discussing the results themselves - quick ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

it is a double standard, it really should be just a count of extended assault on the woman alone woman dies - murder viable life mass dies - no count, the woman died and this is just some tissue associated with the dead woman see? it's very simple now back to the pro-choice arguing about pregnant women on the verge of death due to the parasite vs pro-life arguing about the newly born infant being kept in close vicinity (to justify it not being born 'really') to the mom while a doctor smashes it with a meat tenderizer ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

again, this is just for argument sake. why should the man have to 'deal' with contraception if the final arbitor of the consequences of the sex act solely lie with the woman? It's her responsibility alone for the final decision - so she should own all the efforts for planning leading up to it. And all the consequences after the decision as well. men are free... to romp and play at will totally divested of any ownership of thier actions it's a brave new world ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Pictures show he was poor, rarely shaved, was filthy, and wore disgusting robes and walked around trying to tell people how to act. He's neither a liberal (who may hire someone like that and try to get their votes) nor a conservative (they shave and bathe). He must be a CrW dawg. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants