mrshutter45

Word has just reached me that a witness on board 305 has been interviewed and shown photos and turned thumbs down on both KC and Duane Weber. Eg. "ears stick out way too far" etc - Weber ... "nothing about him matches, nothing..." - KC There is other news but Im going to let others pass it along .. nothing said about LD??? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I don't doubt it was microfilm - just saying there is one more discrepancy to add to the other million. And if you're looking for one format - you might overlook the other. But it really shouldn't matter if there are other copies of the "original" list out there. We're just wanting the pizza, not the box it came in.

Recordak System..... The earliest large-scale commercial use of greatly reduced-size copying onto narrow rolls of film (microfilm) resulted from the introduction of the Recordak system by the Eastman Kodak Company in 1928. Continuous, automatic cameras photographed documents on 16-millimetre film, and the first use was for copying checks in bank transit or clearing work. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

From my experience, Microfilm is usually used for runs of lengthy information. Such as runs of newspapers which can be several hundred pages long. The FBI booklet is only 34 pages and looks to be in Microfiche format. I would think the bank might use microfiche. But the Microfilm does offer a quicker search through the pages. Having said that... I think the quickest way to search for the serial numbers, Alpha-Numeric or Random would be in booklet form. Easy to access, don't need a machine. the bills could be on microfilm....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Exactly. And card = flat "page format" So, my point, if I'm looking for a round film canister or even a box of film on a reel, I might miss a flat card.

microfiche is usually a card with multiple pics on them. microfilm is in a canister similar to old school film. to view microfilm. it's on a reel to reel source with the monitor in between. you turn the film to view. microfiche. to view these you place the card under the light source below the monitor and can move the card to any position up down and side to side to view what is on the card. if not mistaken microfiche was stored in boxes..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

There are probably more things wrong with the bill than just the mis-matching B and L. The graphic designer probably didn't want to make the bills too accurate for liability reasons. the bill in the center also shows it's a 1950 A series. my guess would be he used one bill and changed the serial numbers and appearance for the shot. probably a CG bill (computer generated) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

it's possible you found a typo...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

NO one has provided anything from 1962 when he was released from Canon until his arrest in 1966 and sent to Jefferson as John Collins. He was running with a woman who also used many names. Remember this - I can NOT prove I was the widow of John C. Collins. If you have the records from 1962 to 1966 - SHOOT with them. There was also the missing time unaccounted for when he escaped - that is blank in the 50's There are too many holes and weak spots. THE FBI would NOT provide me with his rap sheet - remember it was tried. YOU got more than anyone else was ever able to get. Don't forget the time he was gone from the Farm...and that is unaccounted for and not confirmed. I have recounted the things - from when he was shipped back to CA with letters exchanged by his mother and the authorities - but, you guys used what you found ...I have the letters exchanged with the authorities. I don't have everythings - just what the brother sent me in regards to this. Then we have the time he was supposedly in McNeil and following that. Remember the FBI said he WAS not in McNeil. He was also on some kind of farm program in CA. before being sent to McNeil...between 1943 and late 1944. He gose POOF too many times. I understand the missing time frames Jo. a complete criminal history is needed to verify his whereabouts from different stages in time. I'm not saying it's the answer to everything, but it's needed. this would also help eliminate the poof that you seem to use when things are not understood. millions of people have used an alias to cover there past without having some sort Government involvement or cover up. a lot of things that go "poof" are pretty clear once the smoke clears. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Check out the attachment. I did a couple of graphics looking at the possiblity that the backside of another bill is showing through the hole. The exact alignment with a $20 over $20 using 1963A series shows one of the columns, one to the left of yours. The bundle of bills don't seem to be in perfect alignment plus they are shriveled and are somewhat offset from each other. I guess there is the possiblity the backside of a another bill is showing through the hole. I don't believe a bill is in the bundle reversed. see the photo I provided. things match up. some things I'm still trying to figure out. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Do you think there is a hole in the first bill and the backside of the next bill is showing through. If so, that could mean there was tampering with the bundle, because I think the bank could at least manage to bundle all bills face up. (even back then) Another thought...these 20's are bionic bills to be recognizable after so long in enviroment. Supposively all the bills were used when given to Cooper. "Do you think there is a hole in the first bill and the backside of the next bill is showing through." I don't think so. it looks like it will fold over back into place. lot's of things out of place on this bundle. I can't prove anything, but, it looks like this bundle has been thru some sort of movement other than just lying around for years. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

it seems I was incorrect by stating the area you thought was a rubber band. it is not a portion of the oval around the prez. it's the back of the bill. it appears to have been torn and pushed to the left. also looks like it happened before the mess at the top of the bill. (see photo) there are several area's showing the back side of the bill. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

here is a better pic....most of the close ups, if not all of them are from this table. some pics were before they put the second layer of plastic over them. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

this bundle of bills always makes me wonder. if you look carefully at the Federal Reserve stamp (L) it appears to have a crease in it. not a tear. everything is offset lettering wise at the top as if force was put on the bundle while wet. I know the Ingram's tried to clean them, but, did they take them apart? worse case. the bills are soaking wet and the bulldozer pushes them down the beach. what would happen to them. they should bunch up, or be found "wadded up" as the FBI claimed. it also looks like they were cut by something dull. just doesn't look like deterioration, I don't know. shooting in the dark on this one. the area around the Presidents head is really out of form. the oval is way out of shape. the heads are not lining up. just seems this bundle has been through more than just lying around if you ask me? just some thoughts.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

seems a little extreme. that's only $7500 each person. Government jobs. you gotta love'm "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

exploring his rap sheet? what does that mean. if you had this you would know certain events such as what years he was in Ohio. possibly events from 1963 till Jefferson. it should have been one of the first things you did once you found out his background. perhaps enough was there to convince the FBI he wasn't Cooper. I don't know because I haven't seen it. if you had his rap sheet. this means his entire criminal history. you wouldn't be asking the questions that you continue to ask. they would be on the sheet from his first arrest, prison terms and his last conflict with the Law. I have helped you in the past and asked for nothing in return. I'm simply stating things as I see them. I will continue to help you when you need it. I don't have a problem with that. I hope you understand I'm not picking on you either. " as no one hired ex-cons in the day" that still continues today Jo. there is no such thing as "Time Served" nothing is forgotten. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, I think if you would take the time to get Duane's actual rap sheet. a lot of answers could be found on locating where he was. according to the FBI he was arrested some 26 times. I'm thinking you are scared to find out where he was during those times. it seems he was in trouble in between being in prison with that many arrests. I find it hard for him to have had the time to do the things that take most people a full free life span to achieve. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Attached is a picture of a Tena Bar bundle from the Oregonian on Feb 13 1980. I'm 90 percent sure there is part of a rubberband on the top of the bundle. If it is part of a rubberband than the serial number on the top bill is either the beginning of a sequence or end of sequence for one bundle. The top bill serial number should be on the Microfilm that was found showing stops and starts of bundles. The Microfilm Tom Kaye spoke of. if you are talking about the area I have circled on the photo provided, it's not a rubber band. it's part of the oval where the pic of the prez is. this photo has bothered me for a while. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

as with everything in the case, there are different versions. it's also documented the bills were photo copied (microfilmed) the "Boss" could of simply been overlooking the process, I don't know. I have doubts the FBI wouldn't record the numbers. these were used for court purposes. I think they would be in trouble if they only had the bank stating the numbers. perhaps 377 could chime in? maybe they didn't make the list until they went thru the microfilm and put them in order? it just seems to me if the money was in the bag according to the list, Cooper could see the itemized way they were bundled. I'm finding H,J,L & C bills in the Ingram's bundle. more L's than anything else. random....still worth looking into. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I remember seeing that. It appeared they were doing cooper money. Having said that, It's becoming more apparent that the FBI had no involvement with documenting money (serial numbers) until after Cooper already had the money. Evidently, the FBI started distributing Booklets with all the serial numbers on December 8th of 1971. I think most banks got the booklets of serial numbers. Would be nice to have one of those booklets as a conversation piece. As far as serial number order in the booklet (alpha-numeric or random), it seems Greggory Gray or R.H. would know. Maybe one of them would even know if the booklet matched the order of the bills. I would think the booklets were Alpha-Numeric, If not, it would take a long time to look up just one bill. The serial number publications in the newspaper might be direct copies from the Booklets. it's also possible this is the list the bank had. the FBI might have a different list if the shuffled the cash? I'm pretty sure they would want to document the bills before release? here is the segment....about 6 minutes in they talk about the money. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_yvGpipjzE "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

if the total was $5800 there should be 290 bills. if they followed the list which appears to be numeric the bills should all be on one page. if they shuffled the bills, or randomized them. there will be no way to tell how they were bundled. at least according to the list they gave to the public. it's also possible they came from different area's within the bag. bottom/middle or top? if Cooper pulled bundles from the bottom in order to look at them. I'm sure he placed them on the top when he put them back in the bag. you would think several people were recording the bills. on the segment of "In Search Of" they show someone typing the serial numbers. (see photo) they also state this was done at the FBI office???? I don't know at this point....... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

PCGS stated in early 2008 approximately $5800 was found, a few months after PCGS submitted the new SN's they found to the FBI. I found a couple of places that put the amount at $5880 Nov. 25, 1981 article http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=dwMhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WXUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2665,5336872&dq=db+cooper+5880&hl=en April 2, 2008 article http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=45c_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=GFYMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4951,5762652&dq=db+cooper+5880&hl=en In a June 12, 1986 article......The total money of about 6K (5800?) was split in 1986 between Ingram and the airliner Insurance company. Per the Ottawa Citizen. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=q6QyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m-8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3433,811106&dq=db+cooper+money+ingram&hl=en In a April 1, 2008 article it is stated..... "Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments that were authenticated by PCGS Currency in February and encapsulated in specially-labeled protective, archival storage holders." http://www.coinlink.com/News/banknotes/heritage-offers-%E2%80%9Cdb-cooper%E2%80%9D-skyjacking-notes/ It seems like Ingram has a list of several dozen serial numbers. I found the June 12, 1986 article interesting. I noticed they claim Cooper tied MOST of the money to his waist. also found it interesting that Dwayne Ingram (Father) worked in an aircraft assembly plant. I wonder what type of aircraft he was around. not saying he is Cooper,but, find it odd he was in the biz. perhaps he knows more than he is telling. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I've read that PCGS stated approximately $5800 was found, a few months after PCGS submitted the new SN's they found to the FBI. I found a couple of places that put the amount at $5880 The total money of about 6K (5800?) was split in 1986 between Ingram and the airliner Insurance company. Per the Ottawa Citizen. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=q6QyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=m-8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3433,811106&dq=db+cooper+money+ingram&hl=en In a april 1, 2008 article it is stated..... "Ingram owns 84 D.B. Cooper bills and fragments that were authenticated by PCGS Currency in February and encapsulated in specially-labeled protective, archival storage holders." http://www.coinlink.com/News/banknotes/heritage-offers-%E2%80%9Cdb-cooper%E2%80%9D-skyjacking-notes/ It seems like Ingram has a list of several dozen serial numbers. according to the PCGS site it was 83 bills. not 84. they also claim 35 new serial numbers which would be an additional $700 this was done I believe just before the auction. this is why I'm wondering about the Grand Total of currency found. one would think if money was missing from any of the bundles the amount would be off set to $5840, $5880 etc. just like the off set amount from McCoy. $500,000...recovered $500,970. Cooper cash always seems to round off in the hundred mark, as it should if not tampered with. still leaves lots of questions. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

According to a Feb. 14 1980 "The Citizen" newspaper article out of Ottawa, Canada (UPI), Brian found only $3000 in in 3 bundles. Link at bottom. According to the Article there were two different finds. Ingram found his money first. (from what I know he found money on Feb. 10th) The rest of the money (amount not specified) was found by the FBI on Tuesday and Wednesday Feb. 12 and the 13th. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ga4yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fe4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6963,3065970&dq=db+cooper+money+ingram&hl=en has anyone confirmed the total found on the river bank? Brian & Denise found $3000 (according to newspaper) FBI found $2800? PCGS Currency finds 35 additional full serial numbers. ($700) does this give a grand total of $6500???? I noticed right from the start of the article that the FBI claims the bills were wadded up. are they stating the bills were not flat, or in a normal state a bundle would be in? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Re: Email stating "Hal Mount, the agent who checked him in" I might be mistaken but I believe the following to be accurate based on historical and recent accounts... Hal "Williams", was the gate agent, not the ticket agent. The ticket agent was Dennis Lysne. Not calling anyone out - I realize that it's been a long time and names can be forgotten ....and lots of people think Hal Williams was the ticket agent. From everything that I've read, he was not. I noticed that as well. the main part I was trying to show was the fact of the passengers not writing the tickets. was wondering when someone would pick that up. I always want to say Hank Williams