mrshutter45

Blevins, Please remind me again why you have so much confidence in the so-called FBI flight path? Robert99 How many times do I have to answer the same darn question??? Because some very smart folks worked on it, and because I haven't seen any proof yet it is wrong. See post above. I think Shutter should just call Rataczak and ask. Under the right conditions, he will talk to people. you have a gap in your logic Robert. the case is unsolved anyway you look at it. some smart guys did the flight path. last time I checked, some very smart guys work for the FBI and have a description of Cooper. the smart guys came to a conclusion of the best fit. you want to go against the smart guys in your case, but, not on anything else that doesn't include your findings? I'll admit the composite might be off more than the description. there must be some sort of guideline to follow. it just makes the suspect pool larger and larger. I'm sure the description was discussed more than just the evening of the crime. as we know, these guys are not half as stupid as people think they are. there are reasons they don't turn there heads at a suspect based on what has been found years later. it's the evidence that we don't know that tells them who to look for IMO. I would like to speak to Rataczak, but his wife is ill. I don't feel like intruding into his life at this moment. perhaps I will send him a letter rather than calling. if he tells me something different than the original flight path. what do we do? there will have to be two separate paths flown. which will bring us back to something wrong with the first path....correct. this is what people are trying to explain to you. I think it's a lot easier looking into this when you don't have a suspect in mind. this fogs the judgment IMO. Jo will never accept anything other than what she concludes. I don't know who did it. I would like to find out. this is the best starting point IMO... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

what Robert Blevins doesn't seem to understand is fact of the path being put together in a rush. this is where mistakes can and will happen. I can't tell you if the FP is 100% accurate, or 100% inaccurate. we have a gap between the flight path and the FBI. we have bits a pieces of how it was put together. the computer cards are either missing, or no longer around. we have reports from different key people telling different stories. the radio transcripts do not tell all. lots of gaps in them where transmissions surely took place. 8:10 to 8:20 and only one transmission? they had to have been talking up a storm from 8:10 to 9:00 in my opinion. people make mistakes. we have a guy who jumped out of a plane. they originally thought it was close to Merwin Lake. this has now changed. that should be proof right there that even smart guys make mistakes. by not understanding the facts surrounding how the path was made, the sage radar issues, time frames not matching. you have to start thinking something is wrong. the times frames are incorrect and impossible right out of the gate with getting 14 miles DME in the time frame they report. I was always wondering about the flight path, but, didn't have enough knowledge about it. I feel I have a stronger grip now more than others after studying the path, radar etc. I have uncovered the start time I believe the plane took off at, and can make the time frame given to the Toledo area. the only thing that doesn't match is the 14 miles DME. the second part of the leg I am having trouble matching. this is due to the weather system functioning improperly which is probably giving inaccurate times between Toledo and Merwin. if the winds aloft are incorrect, you get a different ending time. this is where I came to the conclusion the system was not up to par for this course. any cop will tell you when they pick up a cold case they must go through all the evidence making sure no mistakes were made. there seems to be clues pointing to faults in the path. by simply stating that it couldn't be wrong based on the backgrounds of who made the path is failing to see the real picture, or the possibility of something going wrong. this is a good starting point from where the crime started. right after it took off. that's where you start looking. IMO the same goes for who Cooper is. you start with the description. if it doesn't match, you must start looking elsewhere. I realize the start of the crime took place just after taking off from Portland, but, the plane could have done 14 loops and stopped at Denny's and got a hamburger for Cooper before it landed at SEA. the actual crime started once they were back in the air after meeting his demands. IMO this is where the crime started. I get teased that I am only on a game, but, this system is not a game. the dynamics a very close to the real thing. I'm flying a plane designed for three. I'm all alone up there lol. the new system will have two people running it. it has whats called a ISO Instructors Operating Station. this person will be able to act as the co-pilot and control the weather. this can be done with someone here, or someone over the internet. it has a black box that will record the data put into it and can be printed out. I also have a normal life just as many other people have. I can't put this together over night. there have been many bumps along the road with computers, software and spare time learning how to fly. I enjoy ever second of this project and have a really cool simulator that easily transforms into a race car if I feel the need for speed I believe I'm done now (applause) ...Hey, I heard some Boo's in there "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Well, I'll bet they were at least REASONABLY accurate" this is what we are talking about. it is possible mistakes were made. now, the description is a little different. lots of people seen Cooper. none of them said he had no hair on his head. I don't think stress played any factor in it. Tina was with him for 5 hours. most agree Tina & Flo's description was similar. the only ones who disagree are trying to produce a suspect. calculations and electronics have a much higher rate of error. I don't see sideburns on KC? the passengers have different descriptions because they failed to have a reason for remembering him. that's where your part comes into play on accuracy of descriptions. what would you conclude if I found a suspect that was 5' 9" blonde hair & hazel eyes, light complexion. a parking ticket from 11/24/71 was found. had parachute training. the family threw him under the bus saying they always thought he was Cooper. records of employment showing he was missing that day? do I have the makings for alerting the FBI and making several book deals? or perhaps just a coincidence? my guess is that the FBI knows a lot more about Cooper than they tell. I also find it hard that the living witnesses haven't seen the suspects online or on the television. you guys play it out as if nobody important in the case knows anything about your suspects? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

is all of this worth arguing night after night? I think we can move forward now. don't you? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, are you now stating you didn't say this either? are you kidding me? I should have screened shot it if I would have known you would try to deny another post...... ok, I jumped the gun on that one. didn't really read the post good enough. disregard statement above. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Excuse me - I may have asked you what you were smoking. AND yes, I consider your taking snippets of postings I made over a 7 yr period out of context & without supporting factors going on prior to the posting as harrassment! If you consider how many posting I have made and how many times I have had to repeat myself - you also would NOT say something the same way every time and make tongue in cheek statements out of exasperation! I also make the mistake of continueing to post after I have taken medication - not a GOOD thing at all. here is exactly what you said. if I didn't attach it to my post on page 1874. it would have been gone because you removed a lot of your comments an hour later! "take a little of the same crap you continue to DISH out!Tongue You sound like someone on crack or with a discipline problem lately. In fact that is exactly how your post are sounding for the last few days - full of crap and just looking to pick a fight with someone or anyone you can bully around." they are not snippets Jo. entire posts. direct questions, with direct answers. I asked a simple question of why you made those statement. then you wanted proof. I showed it. that wasn't enough so I put the link up. then you blame me for attacking you? hardly Jo. you are very one sided with this whole Duane thing. that's why you are stuck here. you need to stop arguing with people and go public and settle it once and for all. are you scared of the out come? I would be. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Mrshutter has gotten out of hand with his attacks on me. He actually expects a senior citizen to be able to keep up with 8 yrs of postings and interactive conversations." Jo, you are the one out of line. I'm not attacking you. I'm attacking your proof. you have called me names, accused me of drinking. the last statement several days ago, you accused me of being on crack! so don't try and cover with the senior citizen thing. I have been more than respectful with presenting things to you. can you say the same? nope. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

why don't you give him a chance before you give your expert opinion? human error happens far to often. calculations are proven wrong. speaking of wrong. the FBI looks at Cooper like this. "He is 5'10 to 6'1 (Mucklow is 5'8 and spent 5 hours with Cooper, she would know if he was her height or taller. Have someone 5'8 stand next to someone 6 feet, the difference is obvious. Better yet, position yourself at a level of 5'8 and look at someone at a 6' elevation. Now spend 5 hours with that person, you'll know the difference. No one put Cooper under 5'10. -He had olive skin (no make-up, neither Mucklow, Schaffner or Hancock made comment on make-up which would have been very obvious. Again, do the math, put dark makeup on someone then sit next to them with your shoulders touching, you can see the make-up.) -He had dark hair, receding with sideburns (no wig, this would have been painfully obvious, if a man was wearing a wig with a receding hair line and side burns everyone would have noticed, especially Mucklow and Schaffner.) -He was med built (no one put him over 190 lbs, in fact most put him 180 or under. Find a man 6 foot 180 lbs, thats a med to thin build.) These are the facts on his physical make-up, if your suspect does not match these you may want to start looking at someone else." the pieces of the puzzle to KC have been put together long before you came along. (*laughs*) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Robert, your are going against lots of things trying to prove a short bald guy was Cooper. the description is pretty accurate given the fact that several were with Cooper an extended amount of time. this puts a hole again in your trying to use bad descriptions to fit KC into the pool. Hair on his head. Tina was 5' 8" reports she had to look up at Cooper. KC is 5' 8" logic tells me he would be looking dead in her eye. it appears the KC story was started by Lyle correct? the guy you don't trust testimony wise. several reports of him wanting to make a movie about his Brother vs proving he was Cooper. money doesn't have to be his motive. he seems to have cared very much for him. possibly enough to stretch some truth in his statements. I have said this before. I have not seen R99's full conclusion about what he is stating, but, it appears to me that he is indeed just like those really smart guys you speak of. he's a Pilot and a Aeronautical engineer. I think I'll wait and listen to his evidence before I listen to your constant rejection of this claim. it's ok for you to turn the table without any proof. that damn path is dead nut center...right? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

have you noticed Himmelsbach says Cooper jumped over LA Center? that is about 3 NM west of the path. this area is where the plane was parallel with LA Center and turns eastward towards Battleground. Blevins, you do realize your not suppose to advertise on here don't ya? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

if you are saying it was a no pull. it's would be attached to him for a period of time I would say? if he landed in the river...where is the body? welcome to the form...... Yes, welcome. River landing? Maybe. One point I've brought up about it is if you calculate the total amount of possible water landing against landing on ground, the chances are far greater he came to the ground. There's just a lot more dirt and rock between Seattle and Portland than lakes and rivers. It's strictly an 'odds' thing, and completely non-scientific.

if you are saying it was a no pull. it's would be attached to him for a period of time I would say? if he landed in the river...where is the body? welcome to the form...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I am simple Simon on the computer. The only thing I could do was scroll back trying to get to the page, but with all of the pages - it was impossible. Yes, I could read the post you had a pic of - but I need to be able to use the post to hit reply. It would not do a copy and post and I wanted to be sure you and others understood what I was replying to. Also without being able to past to the post - I was not able to get the "BRAIN TRAIN" going. REALLY I AM SIMPLE SIMON WITH A COMPUTER. I JUST USE THE THREAD LIKE AN EMAIL ----. I DO simple searches and know how to save my emails in categories and by name, but then I never know where they are. Therefore I used to PRINT them, but that got WAY to expensive and WAY to slow. I keep wanting to figure out a way to down load the thread to a disk - but there aint now way...now I just go with the Flow! Whatever will be will be! Jo, I don't know what to tell you. I put the full post with the date, time and post number. I then posted one of the links directing you to 377's comment. get with the program and get actual internet service. since you obviously have a land line. you can get the ultra DSL package. this way you can cancel your phone service and get Magic Jack for a phone line at the cost of about $30 a year. it works great. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Robert, that doesn't really make any sense. if you post something and later someone "alters" the document. you have the original copy to prove it was manipulated. someone could easily "alter" any given number of pictures of Kenny. a mole, scar, skin tone etc. from what is on the document seems to point to him finishing parachute training. nothing about being with a company, but, that is all that's needed to prove he had knowledge of chutes. as I mentioned before. this is good for everyone. you already said you are putting the document in your future book. this could have been achieved 20 posts ago at the cost of cost $0 vs the constant complaining of $70. once again. the 900 comments seems to be a personal issue. I have seen the comments. I don't really care who made them. it was one of the things I seen when I first came into this at Dropzone and doing searches. other than you, who really cares?? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, I'm not being arrogant. you asked me for the post numbers etc. I simply told you they were on the pics. here is the jump to 377's post. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3664551;search_string=put%20duane%20on%20tena%20bar;#3664551 "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Why in the world would a man spend 18 yrs creating a fantasy" it's not the point of him spending 18 years on it Jo. you have clearly said in the past that Duane was aware of DB Cooper. he showed you McCoy's house. he claimed at one point he could be the "man on the ground" that statement alone tells me he was stretching the truth. zero evidence proving Cooper had an accomplice. how do you know his buddies in prison didn't tell him some Cooper stories leading him on a wild goose chase across Washington? can you prove that never happened. would you like it if I kept saying this without any proof? you need to go public, get Flo and the remaining living passengers to hear your story. see all the photo's. leave nothing out that you can use for ammo after the fireworks. it's not going to convince anyone here. that is the end of the story Jo...... Jo, the whole post is on the pics. dates, time and post numbers??? what don't you see..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I just wanted to make sure he understood that. I don't believe in beating around the bush. Unlike Bruce, I actually interviewed KC's friends, neighbors, and as I said, people who knew him for decades, some of whom actually lived with him. Kenny was gay, but he wasn't a pedophile. It's an insult to gay people, and an inaccurate assessment, to put it politely. that's all fine and dandy Robert. if there is reason to show it as proof. it's no different than accusing them of a Federal crime. that's not polite either. he never said he was a pedophile. you are putting words in his mouth. just as you are claiming KC could be Cooper. gay people can't be pedophiles? I don't follow your logic on labeling people. Ted Bundy was a nice guy. did you know that. lots of people claim they know the guy next door. then they find out something different. people give song and dances all day long. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo. you specifically asked for proof. dates, post numbers etc. nothing is out of context Jo. you were asked a question, and you responded. oh yes, the shift of blame comes into view. Jo, you could care less about what I am doing. stop diverting...... I'm not playing games with you Jo. I posted the facts. I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going post them one by one. it's pointless. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Provide the post number I made that in so I can read the conversations going on and it will be explained" Jo, that one is written in stone. you can't get past that one. you even acknowledge the Fountain blue.....I'm simply showing what you have said in the past Jo. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, I have put quotes of your replies on the thread. I have posted screen shots several times of the entire post. different ones and years. that is why I asked you from the start. "why did you claim you were not at Tena bar in 1979" are you even looking at any of the screen shots I posted? pic #1 377 asks you to put Duane on Tena bar. pic #2 your response pic #3 you claim you were nowhere near Tena bar. along with the quote of being a fool for going to Tena bar. pic #4 The ADAMANT claim at the bottom. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Robert says: Lyle is well past 80 years old. He has no financial interest in whether or not his brother was the hijacker, and signed away all rights to KC's story years ago. Yes, he thinks his brother was Cooper. Can he prove it? No." Robert, have you ever thought of a different angle other than financial gain, why does it have to be money? "He wasn't banging underage boys" that is a strong statement. where did Bruce say that? you seem to get very upset about things that Bruce has taken from Gray. the guy you always tell us to go to? keep in mind that you are accusing Kenneth P Christiansen of a Federal offense. he's not here to speak of your claims. why are you jumping all over Bruce? seems he is going by what Gray has said in the past, along with emails he got from Lyle. yours are true, his are false? pretty one sided...no? perhaps you should ask Bruce for the emails Lyle sent.? is someone else protecting possible financial gain in this mess? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I guess the real question is. how involved was Lyle in the whole KC thing. it's brings up the inner circle thingy again. nobody said a word for 40 years. some claimed they suspected? it seems to revolve around Lyle. I'm also not shocked that a possible answer to the money has not been researched. it's strange how these people don't understand why the FBI does nothing with these suspects???? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I agree. lots of people have said it's possible he wanted to be Cooper. I think Duane knew she would go forever trying to prove something he made up. I can't prove that, but, learning how Jo operates tells a lot. she can take a "what if" and turn it into a fact. she will tell you she has no idea what was in the bag. a month later she will tell you Duane threw the money in the river. the bottom line is, there is no evidence proving Duane was Cooper by any means. I'm glad Skipp is sending the documents. you will probably find these very useful in the future. I was really starting to wonder to be honest. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Jo, you have never claimed anything about a nap. so you were told to stay in the car on two stops....correct? "WHEN I STATED WE WERE NOT ON TENA'S BAR THAT IS REFERENCING this other property so no one will mix them up. I am explaining all of the STOPS! YET Shutter interperts that statement to literally mean not being there when it was simply a statement to clarify and draw a line between the different stops." just a simple question Jo, how do you mix up telling 377 you were not on Tena bar with Duane? his question was just as simple. you gave a simple reply of " I can't put Duane on Tena bar" how can you explain this quote? "The Tena's bar area is not very populated. only a fool would allow himself in a place someone would question his presence. I promise you after seeing the area in 2001 - Cooper who ever he was didn't put the money there." how can you explain this quote? "Ok, Duane went nowhere near Tena's bar. The closest we got was the Red Lion Inn at the bridge." and this quote? "I was ADAMANT this was not the place he took me in 1979? (reference tena bar) I'm not trying to make Tena bar go away. I'm trying to resolve different comments about your claim. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"I have a copy of Kenny's Army discharge papers. It says on there he was a paratrooper. I'll have to find it. That will shut them up." now that didn't hurt did it? I think more than a few will be pleased to see this info. my concern was actual documentation from get go. all of this could have easily been avoided. cost $0....time wasted....lots. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI