mrshutter45

Matt, on a "no pull" situation what would happen to anything tied to your person if you went thru the trees at terminal velocity? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Bob, you have nothing to add to this form whats so ever, you have been caught so many times it's not funny, do us all a favor and leave this form so we may continue a mature conversation! something you also know nothing about! you can't even read a post correct, Robert99 made the straight jacket remark, not me! " I'm usually right and it's a really satisfying feeling" I have a Mr Squartino which is from a news source that whats to talk to you about your truth and satisfying feelings! are you ready? put up or shut up Bob! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I understand that Caterpillar Island and the other nearby wooded areas were checked visually. But Caterpillar Island in particular is reported to have heavy undergrowth that makes it very difficult to check. I have not seen any mention of metal detectors being used at Tena Bar by the FBI. Robert99 I guess I was wrong, well seems to be the next move I would say? someone could get permission I'm sure and go out there and check, couldn't hurt? GPR would be nice ( Ground Penetrating Radar) "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Bob, you are the main reason I have not included this site with my project, you have nothing of value to input, do me a favor and BACK OFF!!! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

since you wont respond to email I guess I have no choice but to post here - If you recall, H and the helo flew to the Woodland area the nightof the HJ. Thearea was flooded with people searching thereafter ... 99s summary of my first interview with R2 is pretty accurate except 99 may be exaggerating the 'looked away from the radar' aspect. R2 was still convinced 305 never strayed, just as 99 says, "from the centerline of V23". Of course I fed R2's info to 99 because we were working together at the time. There were two more interviews with R2 in which he elaborated (in detail) all of the aspects 99 mentions here, because I included specific questions composed by 99, in my list of questions to ask. R2's interviews were followed up by other interviews. R2 felt rather strongly that Cooper could not have landed in the scenario 99 describes due mainly to a lack of proximity of 305 to Tena Bar. The USAF jets 99 refers to, were the T33's R2 helped launch and direct from the Ntl Air Guard base at PDX, after the F106's broke off with 305. R2 emphasized that the operator at PDX was NOT watching his radar as 305 flew by! That will be an issue for future comment. Hopfully more will follow later, if allowed. G. Sorry G, was going to get to you, I'm battling the flu right now and was trying jam everything in before I wonder out into the hot sun for my work day that I seem to be putting off only have a half day of easy work but it's hard with your head all stuffed up "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

how well was the wooded area checked just north of the location of the money on Tena Bar and the Island just south of Tena? I remember you mentioned something about this a while back. didn't the FBI use metal detectors while looking for more of the money in 1980? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

thanks for your help in this! as it stands right now I have made it to Toledo/Maylay at the time the NW transcripts show. 7:36 Take off average airspeed of 200 7:40 14 DME from SEA airspeed 160 flaps 30 degrees 7:43 19 DME airspeed 160 7;51 start my climb to 10,000 7:59 arrive at Maylay this was with a head wind of about 8 NM and also changing to 15 degree flaps, don't have my notes at the moment (getting ready for work) I think I also kicked it up to 170 KIAS if I'm not correct. I also noticed on Sluggo's site a take off time of 7:33 I found this to be incorrect by not being able to match any time frames unless I took off at 7:36. I have also spoken to Tom Kaye on the phone a couple a weeks ago and have things to add that I can not mention at this moment, it was something that I thought was going on but was not sure because it was not found on any transcripts, (cough cough) easier to follow the flight path! 19 NM out of SEA was pretty easy to calculate because you fly very close to McChord AFB this can be seen right after take off (lights) which happens to be about 19 NM from SEA jumping on V23 happens right after take off as it runs right by runway 16. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I started this project over a month ago thinking it would be pretty easy to recreate, Bzzz wrong, after reading two different transcripts one can go bonkers pretty quick, I'm trying my best to use the best information available in order to make this work, Hominid has been my Co-Pilot so to speak guiding and helping out with this with the knowledge he has. I would like to hear everyone's views about the flight path be it weather or anything to do with the path, you guys hold more information than I have and any help would be appreciated. If nothing is found and everything checks out, that's ok too we will now know this to be the real flight path and I learned a hell of a lot about flying a 727 and the Cooper flight path itself. I have along with Hominid put a lot of time into this making sure all avenues are checked, I would like more input from Robert99 if he would be so kind to jump aboard. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

can you spot "yer anus" from back there had to do it "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I'm guessing her real name would be Janet Knoss "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

this one I am finding hard to understand. "NO-NO- PORTLAND. Not Vancouver" "He supposedly walked 15 miles, so 10-15 upland would be the probable landing site. First point of triangulation would be a oil line pumphouse by power transmission lines that run east and west. A fix from that point and radio fixes in the mountains to either side points to the clear-cut fire-trail for the pipeline I think he jumped in. That's a wide straight line down to the fork in the river and over to Tena's Bar. " Now, with that said Bob you do realize that from Hayden Island to Lake Merwin in a straight line is about 24 miles and from the Columbia around Vancouver Lake to the east edge of Lake Merwin due east would be about 20 miles,you have him hiking all over the place for no known reason! this holds the exact same amount of water your little Milk theory does! zero ounces and zero calories! I made the same mistake except it helped me and seems to have squashed you! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Bob you already claimed that Cooper jumped and landed on the west side of the Columbia almost the same spot the FBI says, but you claimed further west. Janet is in Vancouver close to the river and PDX, how did she see your Cooper? according to you and your map he would have been on the ground before the plane flew over Janet! at one point you said she was in Portland, right? my screen ripped on my patio, since your story has so many holes I used it as a screen! I have a guy who wants to contact you about your story, if you don't talk to him he is going to go ahead with or without you, remember you are speaking on a public form! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

the simulator has limitations, one would be not being able to tell what she saw, the clouds will not be the same as they were in 1971 I can put weather into it but not exactly as that given nite. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I am trying to factor everything in, but, someone always throws a wrench into my plan after I think I have most of it flaps, speed, altitude etc, I am taking all the information in, just need to find out what information is the right information one thing I did notice very quickly is the fact of the area around the dam to battleground and the Columbia is a very small space for a 727, they did some zig zaging in there which is like parking a semi in a compact car parking space, very tight in there. this is where Knoss also made a mistake by not calculating distance! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

lol....okay...since we're not having much luck in WA...... I'll admit it's been a while since I've looked at the maps so I'm probably not remembering correctly but I thought that the 8:10 "oscilliation/bump" put him in Oregon anyway. the "pressure bump" was around Lake Merwin area, not around Portland or Janet's location, he could of been on the stairs a for some time I don't know. if he was timing things and Janet saw the flares you would think he would wait before jumping around PDX someone could have seen him coming down. I don't know? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

according to Bruce it was Mill Plain Rd where she lived, this was along the flight path. "Janet, who was in the passenger seat, looked up just as the car was backing out of the driveway and saw a light pass overhead. A platform or ladder below a plane caught her eye" at 10,000 and at nite she "noticed" the stairs down? that's where she lost me. she seems to have it backwards, you would think the flares would have caught her eye and not the stairs. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Right, but, according to the transcripts, the stairs were down at 7:44:22 when they were still at 7000 ft. Also, at that point they seemed not to be sure whether their friend was still with them or not so he could have been on the stairs for all they know. At 7:51:31 they were climbing up to 10000 - going through 9000 now. At 7:51:42 they are level at 10000. I don't know - do seconds count at those speeds? Where did Janet live? I was under the impression that she was not that far out from takeoff point, but I might be wrong. I believe Robert99 is absolutely correct that the transcripts are not a full and accurate portrayal of the flight path, but i guess you have to start somewhere. she lived in Vacouver, I forget at the moment where but Bruce Smith gave the street name after Knoss was trying to say Portland

This is cool. Do you have a picture at 7000 ft? Like I said - I'm not saying janet's not full of it - and I doubt too that she saw "a Man" but I don't necessarily discount that she saw something illuminated against the backdrop of a plane. Just want more information. For example, minutes before in the transcripts, the plane was at 7000, the aft stair light was on and they were wondering if he's still back there. So.....it's just not as cut and dried to me. Which brings me to.....I thought no one was sure of the exact path.....has that changed? Transcripts tell elevation, but just wondering how you determined what area the plane was over at any given time. From the transcripts I guess you'd know where they were at certain points ....but even with that there could be variations of miles, right? So are you doing all variations? Just curious. thanks The altitude your are referring to is from the start of the flight, approx 4 minutes into the flight they are at 7000 and remain there until 7:51:31 approaching Toledo area then climb to 10,000 and hold that altitude past Portland. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

What computer simulator program are you using? "Computer flying" is a growing hobby and there is at least one slick magazine devoted to the subject and Microsoft has some excellent software programs on the subject. Can you place the airliner at the Malay Intersection (known as the Mayfield Intersection in 1971) on V-23 and point it to the Battleground VORTAC (known as the Portland VORTAC in 1971) and record the scene? And then point it several degrees south of the Portland Airport and record that scene also from the Maylay Intersection? Robert99 Yes I can, I am currently working on the first leg of the flight out of SEA, I can change the weather in different locations, I have V23 on my map, The software is called Dreamfleet 727 that upgrades from Microsoft 2004 "Century Of Flight" I also added sky 6 and Ultimate Terrain USA for effects. I can place the plane where ever I wish, I can pause it and look from different locations from outside as well as from the ground, it's very accurate with the testing I have done so far. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsyERckru2c Please use bright sunshine with the first simulation and show all the ground points that are possible. Robert99 The whole thing will be recorded and information saved, other words I can always go back and look at anything requested by others, I am presently in the "learning stage" of flying a 727 with up to 30 degree flaps and gear down at low speeds (not easy) Hominid has been a great help in this project I am now calling "Project 305" "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

What computer simulator program are you using? "Computer flying" is a growing hobby and there is at least one slick magazine devoted to the subject and Microsoft has some excellent software programs on the subject. Can you place the airliner at the Malay Intersection (known as the Mayfield Intersection in 1971) on V-23 and point it to the Battleground VORTAC (known as the Portland VORTAC in 1971) and record the scene? And then point it several degrees south of the Portland Airport and record that scene also from the Maylay Intersection? Robert99 Yes I can, I am currently working on the first leg of the flight out of SEA, I can change the weather in different locations, I have V23 on my map, The software is called Dreamfleet 727 that upgrades from Microsoft 2004 "Century Of Flight" I also added sky 6 and Ultimate Terrain USA for effects. I can place the plane where ever I wish, I can pause it and look from different locations from outside as well as from the ground, it's very accurate with the testing I have done so far. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsyERckru2c "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

it's not that it is impossible but, 10,000 feet is way up there from the ground! if there was broken clouds as many claim it's possible to see the plane but seeing someone on the tail of it at night is not logical IMHO. the time frames I put up were from the transcripts around Janet's area showing the plane was at 10,000 here is my plane at 10,000 with Merwin Dam just under me and to the left. http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view¤t=FLIGHTVIEW.jpg "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Bob, you need to stop! you have been torn apart and made unreliable for anything of value, 8th time now your flight path is incorrect and would put you over route 30 and you already have him on the ground before Janet spotted the plane! on the west side of the river! STOP and put your Handicap sign on your mirror and go shopping for some sweaters to knit! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

First...How do you know these were the conditions at this precise location? How do you know what you would be able to see if someone was holding up a light source? Was the cloud cover uniform for miles or spotty? Was the plane at 10,000 when it passed overhead at her location? Did it even pass over her location? Is Janet delusional or a liar? Does she even exist? All I'm saying is for all the so-called experts instantly calling it out as instantly unbelievable, I don't remember seeing any actual investigation into the facts as they were at that particular place and point in time. Perhaps i missed it, if so mea culpa and please point me to where these facts reside... on the other hand.... There are ways to call out bullshit and I guess there are some things that are so unbelievable that you can just say no way - couldn't happen -- but, to me, on this issue, just saying it can't happen is not as satisfying to me. 8:10 /8:22 /8:52 transcripts say they were at 10,000, I am currently working on the flight path via simulator trying to see if the path lines up and if anything else can be found. just thinking logically you would think it would be pretty dam hard to spot this activity, the FBI says it was so bad they turned around, weather reports say a different story, so I figure a good way to find out is to recreate the path, I have done a lot of testing with my simulator and found it to be pretty dam accurate with speed, altitude and mapping is dam near dead on. I can change the weaather at different locations, go from nite to day, 3d cockpit with full instrumentation working. so I think it's worth a shot to see what comes up I just don't see road flares "lighting up the sky" "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI