adamT

I agree. There is no rule though, besides takeoff and on untill 1000' Above is a choice. I will make people aware of this issue though. Especially with the summer months comming and people choosing to stay belted.

This is ture.

I was thinking positive Gs would be a bad idea in a plane climbing at neer max performance. Seems like it could easily lead to a stall. Im not a pilot and i don't know what air speed is generally used in a climb. Perhaps someone could fill me in on that.

Don't wory about busting my chops. I asked for opinions and discussion. I could never be offended over something like this.

Yes this is something i brought up with the pilot durring one of our disscusions. I see it as a valid point. Not everyone will be calm and have the piece of mind to quickly remove their belt. Between 1000 and 3000 feet is where i see this to be an issue. Anything high and you have the time make an orderly exit. Even with two out he can maintain a shallow dive and keep the airspeed up and the plane flying.

Im not expecting blanket policy change. Im just wanting people to think about it. Before our pilot brought it up i hadn't heard any discussion on the topic. And it seemed like something worth discussing.

I know that IFR is there priority, just adds to the point of it not being an atc issue. Unfortunatly there are DZs that are in high traffic areas. Do you guys ever have problems with March AFB aircraft. Just because the airspace is on the charts doesn't me the pilot is always going to listen. I don't recall seeing much traffic in perris. I did see a few GA aircraft in freefall close to the drop space while i was in elsinore.

Your hear about turbulance bouncing people around in planes the size of 747s. And talk to your pilot, see if he has ever been spooked by a plane that got past his comfort zone without him noticing. Im just trying to see as many aspects of this topic as possible. Seat belt or not if you hit anyting at altitude it won't matter. But if you are going hit something and the pilot has the chance you better belive he is going to try to miss, and it will probably be a pretty sever effort.

It is standard procedure at most dropzones to remove your seat belt after 1000' Thats what everyone is taught. But on safety day our pilot brought up the the concern of near misses. Our DZ(hollister) lies in the traffic patterns for the major bay area airports. We see alot of traffic at all altitudes. He, and our other pilots have had experiences where they were not told of traffic by atc and wen't visually identified until they were closer then they would prefer. So if the situation arises where if he has to make a abrubt course change to avoid a collision it is most likely going to be a carving negative g pushover. This of course will slam all the unseatbelted jummpers in back right into the celling. Possibly braking necks. So he recommended that everyone keep their seat belt on until we turn onto jumprun. Of course the first rebuttal is what about emergency exits? Well as he explained it anything below 1000' your staying in the plane(as we are all taught) and anything above you should have time to make an orderly exit. If you are aware of how you placed the seat belt it should not take you more then a second to remove it, just another part of your emegency procdures. The will not just drop out of the sky in an emergency, and if it does that means it stalled and if it is not recovering quickly its probably going to be spinning. According to everyone i've talked to that has been in a spinning aircraft, seatbelt or not you are going to be too stuck to the side of the aircraft to get out. So alot of us have started wearing our seatbelts for most of the climb. Taking it of just becomes part of the routine, like checking you hanndles and putting on healmet(these should also be secured for the whole flight as they would become a dangerous projectile) gogles. The only valid argument(IMHO) i've heard so far against this was regarding people sitting by the door while it is open durring the climb. It a pilotcute gets out the door they could be ripped in half by their seatbelt(depending how it was placed). Of the few jump pilots i've talked they have agreed with this. But you would be amazed by some of the shit people have been given at other DZs when they try to where their seat belt past 1000'. I try to find out the pilots stance and listen to him, because ultimatly he is responsible for the jump ship. I just wanted to bring this up for discussion, get some more opinions( especially pilots) so i can make a more educated descision. adam

Well they can't catch em all. Alot of DZs situated in valleys(like ours) will not have radar coverage for a portion of the climb.

this is me.

Maybe depending on seating arangment, but in our kingair with the seatbelts routed through leg straps i can check my gear and give and recive pin checks the same as if they were off. Also different dz have different amounts of time before the final turn and the door light. We turn on to heading for jump run around a 11k and exit at 15k. I wouldn't wait until the door light comes on to remove the seat belt, too much other things to think about at that point. No seatbelts on with the door open does make perfect sense to me.

Was there a specific incident that brought this about? Perris is where is first heard this argument. So far is is the only one that makes a lot of sense to me.

It is standard procedure at most dropzones to remove your seat belt after 1000' Thats what everyone is taught. But on safety day our pilot brought up the the concern of near misses. Our DZ(hollister) lies in the traffic patterns for the major bay area airports. We see alot of traffic at all altitudes. He, and our other pilots have had experiences where they were not told of traffic by atc and wen't visually identified until they were closer then they would prefer. So if the situation arises where if he has to make a abrubt course change to avoid a collision it is most likely going to be a carving negative g pushover. This of course will slam all the unseatbelted jummpers in back right into the celling. Possibly braking necks. So he recommended that everyone keep their seat belt on until we turn onto jumprun. Of course the first rebuttal is what about emergency exits? Well as he explained it anything below 1000' your staying in the plane(as we are all taught) and anything above you should have time to make an orderly exit. If you are aware of how you placed the seat belt it should not take you more then a second to remove it, just another part of your emegency procdures. The will not just drop out of the sky in an emergency, and if it does that means it stalled and if it is not recovering quickly its probably going to be spinning. According to everyone i've talked to that has been in a spinning aircraft, seatbelt or not you are going to be too stuck to the side of the aircraft to get out. So alot of us have started wearing our seatbelts for most of the climb. Taking it of just becomes part of the routine, like checking you hanndles and putting on healmet(these should also be secured for the whole flight as they would become a dangerous projectile) gogles. The only valid argument(IMHO) i've heard so far against this was regarding people sitting by the door while it is open durring the climb. It a pilotcute gets out the door they could be ripped in half by their seatbelt(depending how it was placed). Of the few jump pilots i've talked they have agreed with this. But you would be amazed by some of the shit people have been given at other DZs when they try to where their seat belt past 1000'. I try to find out the pilots stance and listen to him, because ultimatly he is responsible for the jump ship. I just wanted to bring this up for discussion, get some more opinions( especially pilots) so i can make a more educated descision. adam

here are the other two

Heres me, my uncle and some of his friends on top of mt. whitney last fall. Its the only digital pic i have of my self on my laptop. Hence the avatar.

Yep, he definitely handled everything like a pro. Took care of vinny real well. The video is pretty amusing with most of the other jumpers waiting in line just to fly up to the them, say hello, and be waved off. I was one of the people harassing you(i not sure there was anyone who wasn't, probably why it go so irritating) but i ment no offense. I think i stopped when i saw how much it was getting to you. I hope there is no hard feelings. See ya at the DZ. adam P.S. I wish i could of caught that sucker as it zipped passed me, would of liked to see the look on your faces when i showed it to ya in free fall.

I knew it was a cowboy up referance. I didn't know it came from rodeos tho. I just see it stuck on alot of trucks around here. Is it what the annoucer says before someone starts there run? I would like to find a 'cowgirl down' sticker for my truck, but that might bring me some trouble.

Yeah, I know tires can be really expensive. My boss showed me a recipt for a replacment tire on his beemer. $430, i told him he could of got 4 other tires of the same size but a different brand for that price. I bet liz could get a nice tire for her accura for under a $100.

Nope, had my own. I can bring em, probably a good idea. I still have a fracture boot too. I'll be out there for a couple on saturday around noon, and most of the day sunday. It looks like we are going to have more dz.comers then we can fit in the king air.

Don't trust those f*cks liz. There is no way in hell new tires and front brake pads could possibly cost you a grand. Get a someone else to look at it preferably a friend.

LOL, i do this too. I put the clock across the room intentionally so i would have to get up to snooze it. But i still get up, shut it up, and climb back into bed at least twice every morning.

yes, and alice was a good game too. Although i never did finished it.

woot, i didn't know there were 10000rpm ide drive out.

Here's another creation by American McGee (which was quickly quashed by American Greetings, but it's already on the 'net, no stopping it now. *** Its not an American McGee creation. Its a comic from www.penny-arcade.com bashing American McGee. They make pretty funny web comics if your a gamer. I visit their sight often. And yes American Greetings did try to get all legal on their ass.