Ian84

To sue in order to gain financially from the suffering of your ancestors is almost as bad an example of exploitation as the slavery its self. Terrible

wink wink

Your absolutely right. Someones opinion is formed through various experiences/influences. My opinion is that acting in the name of revenge doesn't work but that reason and debate and compromise might if you give it a chance. I didn't always think this way. I am in a situation where I have family and friends who are on both sides of a particular conflict. That is Northern Ireland. I used to be what I would call Ultra-Nationalistic. I thought something like this: "Well the Brits came over and robbed our land, so we have every right to blow them up and try to make them leave. If they try to stop us by killing some of our guys then we'll just kill some more of theirs and eventually we will win." Having seen the effect of such an attitude I changed my way of thinking VASTLY. What you have to understand is that the other guy is thinking something very similar and so you're going to end up killing each other for many many years. I had a friend run for his life from the UDA, and my second cousin recently retired from the NI Customs Service with post traumatic stress disorder, he had survived a few too many explosions for his liking. These are just a couple of reasons I think the way I do. I'm always open to the possibility that I'm wrong and I don't think Americans are blind. I just think that europeans know everything

You've got yourself a deal. I thank you for the well thought out arguments you have made. It is beneficial to this discussion. I wish we could all express our opinions in such a civil manner.

I would agree with that. But they certainly attracted a lot of attention and unfortunately, many more people to their cause.

Then tell me what you think I mean. Do you think I hate America? Do you think I have no experience of terrorism? Do you think I'm a troll? Maybe your just the only one being affected by the subliminal messages in my posts.

They took yours too??!!

I wish I knew. I really do. I can only speculate that the US uses economic policies that create hardship for the people of the countries where most of the hate is coming from. Someone out there must know why and I'd really like to get their opinion. I'd also like to get yours. Why do you think someone would attack your country in such a horrible manner?? Personal opinion will do, I don't expect you understand it. After all if I don't get it how can I ask you to?

Michele, you are very articulate and I'm afraid I lack the skills to properly express what I mean. As someone pointed out earlier, they would not attack if there wasn't a reason or something was pissing them off. That is the logic I am working with. The target selection thing I was referring to.. I just think they went for shock value rather than actually hitting whatever it is they think they need to lash out against. I'm sorry if that is unclear, its the best way I know how to put it. As has been said before, one mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

Theres is no way I can claim to have knowledge in deapth enough to answer your question directly. But I will ask one of my own. Is it so unreasonable to believe there is "a source" of the problem and that attacking it/them would have better served the cause of the hijackers than killing those poor people on 9/11? As for terrorism, I know what it is.

NO!! That is not what I'm saying. I did not say they should kill the president. WTF do you take me for. I said killing innocent people is no way to achieve their goal and that the source of their problems would be a better target. I DID NOT SAY THEY SHOULD KILL THE PRESIDENT!!!! You are deliberately twisting my words and the words of someone whos first language is not english in order to make us out to be evil USA bashers.

I think Faber is trying to say that the hijackers should have targeted the actual source of their oppression rather than taking it out on innocent people who have no role in decision making. That, IMO would have been slightly less tragic. Thats not to say I would condone such an action by the way. I'm trying to be careful about what I say since people seem to be looking for ways to misinterpret things on this thread.

Like I said I have yet to reply to him. Ill see if authorities can do anything....if not maybe ill play with it a little.

This is the last e-mail I received from a guy claiming to be a Ron Smith from the UK. Its about a motorbike I'm selling. Have'nt replied to it yet, I'm holding off on sending him some nasty words in case the Gardai or FBI can use his email address or something to track him down. Unlikely....I know. Anyone else nearly get scammed lately?? You'd think he'd get someone who can speak proper english to write the e-mails!!?? THE CONCLUTION OF ARRANGEMENT IS BELOW: Thanks for the email.I am interested and would be willing to buy it at that price(2500EURO).I am lucky at this time, about the shipping. So donot worry about the shipping. I have an International shipping agent that will come pick it up from your location and ship to me like i told you before. I will arrange for payment by sending your Full name.............. Address ............... Zipcode................ Country................ Tel No................. to my client in the your country will be issuing you amount of 5500EURO. which is a refunded payment for a cancelled order i placed with him, and being a refunded payment can be written on a single cashier check. I know it is more than the 2002 Aprilia RS50 price. But after getting the cashier check, I want you to cash it immediately and deduct your cost of 2002 Aprilia RS50, then do me a favour by wiring the remaining balance to my International shipper via money gram/western union for him be enable to come for the pickup. After this is done, i will be forward your mailing address to my shipper's immediately so he will come then pickitup from your residence for shipment. I hope it more clearly to you now,so confirm this and send your full name and address including phone # for mailing payment to you, also let me know if you have the ability to wire the balance to the shipper when to come for the pickup. Thanks & have a wonderfull day Kind regards, Ron

Easily. Because the unilateral invasion and occupation of Iraq, without UN support, has done immense harm to the US. If you want to protect yourself, don't act in a way that ostracises you and will likely send people flooding towards causes that are adversarial towards you. The US will reap the ill effects of it's recent decisions for decades from now. Wish I could have said it that well..

Yes it is. But it doesn't matter how many terrorists you kill if you keep breeding new ones to take their place. At least consider world opinion before you act, or try to appear as if you've paid attention. Bush I'm afraid did neither. When I hear you say how many allies you have it makes me wonder how much you even know about them. I think you might find that they are a list of nations willing to put up with you rather than whole hearted supporters of your cause. I think, for the record, that Americans in general are great people. I just think that they should try to gain more insight into how the rest of the world sees them. Then, once they have seen that they can make up their minds as to whether they care what we think or not. Might just change your attitude. Or it might not.

Bend over backwards?? No. But maybe make more effort at diplomacy and use reason rather that brute force. It might save you getting into sticky situations like Iraq. It might also give you more friendly "allies" rather than the ones who simply cannot afford to lose your buisness and therefore go along with you. You may have agreements with many governments and call them allies but its the the hearts of the people you really need. After all they're the ones who are going out and becoming terrorists.

I really don't know what to say to that. Its beyond my comprehension that you could hold such a view and really beleive that its in your nations best interest.

I realise this is your opinion but don't you think statements like this are highly inflamatory to the rest of the world??

Chatmosphere and Yecessarily are the only ones I can think of

I have no interest in politics. My opinion is not based on the belief that a domocrat/republican would do a better/worse job. I just think that what Bush has done is somewhat foolhardy and irresponsible. If I saw someone else do the same thing I'd be just as critical.You're probably right though, a lot of the finger pointing is purely politically motivated. A lot of people thought the weapons were there, but not everybody decided to rush into a war. There were other options. It doesn't make sense to me that the weapons inspectors were basically ignored...as were the opinions of some other nations like France, who were subsequently boycotted by many americans. Remember freedom fries and all that bullshit???

Yes I have. As SkydiverRick put it, it is a "nice byproduct" of the defeat of Saddam. The problem is the guy you chose to invade turns out to be the wrong one. Oooops. But its ok cause he was a bad guy right? I feel terrible for all the people facing death everyday because of the governments mistake. I plan to join the military(British) in a few years. Maybe I'll feel differnetly about the situation then but at the moment I really don't see the justification for the war.

By 'innocent' I didnt mean that he was a nice guy. I meant he hasn't got the weapons that he was accused of having. At least that's what it looks like. If they find something I'll eat my words.