devildog

Looks woundish to me. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Right, right . . . so what word did he have to stop himself in the middle of? http://www.scrabblefinder.com/starts-with/neg/ Pick one. His body language is muted, so are his facial expressions. He doesnt act like someone that just realizes he was a split second from destroying himself publicly, just that he tripped up in what he wants to say. But hey, you hear what you want to hear. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Not a Santorum fan at all, but it looks/sounds like he just tripped over himself. I seriously doubt he was about to throw a racial slur in there. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

And FWIW, http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/ thought that might have been an injury as well when I first watched it. Hard to tell what it is because the resolution is so crappy. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

"Could-a" You mean *after* he could have self-inflicted some damage? Yes, I'm sure he had someone smash his head against a sidewalk and break his nose the next day as directed by the Police to cover up this huge racist conspiracy. Lots of things COULD have happened because the police work appears to have been very sloppy. I am not claiming to know what happened. I just think there are gaping holes in the "evidence". You haven't watched much boxing or MMA have you? People get their noses broken all the time and they continue to fight. It would be silly to stop a fight just because someone had their nose broken. The medical records are their if he sought medical attention the next day as has been reported. I believe a DOCTOR is always present at a sanctioned boxing event. Right, and it has been reported that Jorges was treated by medical personell at the scene before being transported to the Police Station. So what was your point again? It has also been reported that he did NOT go to the ER until well after he was released. So what? They can't force him to go after he was released. And he obviously can't go while they are talking to him. He probably felt okay, and after all the crap he had just gone through, wanted to go home and I dunno...have a shower? Sleep? Eat? I doubt he really wanted to run to the ER and wait in line for hours. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

The paramedics came, checked him out, and likely said, "Do you want to go to the ER" and he likely said, "No." Happens *ALL* the time from fights to car wrecks. Nothing suspicious about it. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

People refuse to go to the ER all the time. He didn't refuse first aid, which is what was reported. As I said before: What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." yeah, that sounds much more plausible You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

the plot thickens... this is EXACTLY why he should have been held for a full investigation and not had police officers who were familiar with him make the decision to release him (so that any and all physical evidence on his person is now gone) http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/28/2719868/network-broadcasts-surveillance.html wow really 2012 and I still have to make URLs clicky manually... yeesh.... What thickens? "Although it’s unclear what time it was taken, it was likely taken after Zimmerman was administered first aid at the shooting scene" They have no idea when this was taken. Their position on when is complete speculation. If it was even an hour after the fact (if not hours) what would you expect after he already had first aid? A still bleeding nose? Are they just going to let his face stay caked with blood? Of course not. What you guys are suggesting is that the police arrived and in the span of seconds, all came to the conspiracy consensus that they should file false reports. "Hey! You just get here?" "Yeah, why?" "We're gonna set up that little black kid and tell the white guy to tell everyone he was punched in the face. You in?" "But I could lose my job. My career. Go to jail...but you're right... it's just too good to pass up! I'm in. Pass it along." You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Cancer is similar, but I hadn't a study as powerful as the cardiac one in mind. You can change your lifestyle after a cancer dx to help your chances of beating it (diet and exercise are easy ones that help boost your immune system). Obviously not all cancers will be beaten this way, but most people (85% ish) survive a cancer dx. Anyway, in the immediate, "need help now!" yes, medical quality and availability is more important, but personal choices after any dx still play a huge role in the success of treatment and to ignore it is folly, imho You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Not true. Personal choices can have quite a bit to do with the recovery of a patient, cancer or not. There was a study not too long ago where they followed people who had serious cardiac events and their doctors flat out told them, "Change your lifestyle and live, or stay the same and die," and they found that something obscene like 95% did not change. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Unfortunately I think it is likely that the facts will never all be known. Makes it a bit of a Roschach test, I think. We know Zimmermann got out of his vehicle and followed the dude at some point, we know there was a scuffle at some point (and apparently Z was getting the worst of that), we know that Zimmerman shot Martin. Between those things there is a lot of fill-in-the-blank going on. And if that's as far as the case can ever get to, is why he should never be convicted. If you read through the SPD reports and the FAQ they let out recently (back in the thread) you'll see they had and still have every belief that Zimmerman was in fear for his life/bodily harm and thus would not and could not arrest him. Nothing went against his story, witness or evidence wise, so with no other viable alternatives, his story is the one that stands. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Regardless of how it happened, wth is the parent doing keeping a loaded gun within access to a 5 year old? You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Well, at least one person still alive knows the truth. Whether or not he's telling it is something else. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Actually, catching people who collaborate to fabricate a story, especially after the fact, is pretty easy to do. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Didn't mean to be misleading, but the empty baggie was the reported violation of the drug policy. It wasn't completely empty. They found trace amounts of pot. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57404664/pot-traces-behind-trayvon-martin-suspension/ And it seems he's had a few run ins prior to that as well. The jewelry and screwdriver possession is of particular note. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Yes, because liberals always take the high road? http://earthhopenetwork.net/Nazi_Bush.htm Or libs set up fake shops in an effort to make the other side look racist. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

I think the PD havent released (for good cause) their entire file and we don't know. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Recent Orlando Sentinel article on the matter http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager More at link. If Z's account is right, Trayvon was the aggressor and Z had every right to shoot -- especially getting his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

His labored breathing suggests he's out of shape and needs more cardio in his regime. Judging by his pic, he's not exactly a triathlete. He could still be breathing hard even though he's stopped following. Zimmerman then spends about 2 mins or so talking to the 911 operator before hanging up after saying "Okay" to "Don't chase him". The "okay" sounds like something someone who is actually complying and/or stopping pursuit and heading back to his truck. That's guess work for sure, but it's certainly not the vigilante attitude the MSM and friends wants to portray. Nothing direct, but back in the thread there's this http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 which states a witness who has given statements and was interviewed by the police saw "everything" and it corroborates Zimmerman's account of what took place, as well as that Zimmerman is the one screaming for help. Not too mention its hard to imagine that a guy with a gun out, stalking a kid with his hands full, gets grass on his back and bleeds from his nose and head. Without seeing Martin's behavior, we don't know if a normal person might have found him suspicious. Somehow, I think if you saw a guy slipping around houses where he didn't belong, and was dressed & acting like the guy in shot on the right (stolen from another forum, sorry :)) https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/522376_357921697585350_100001025689030_1106349_54459859_n.jpg instead of the 5 year old "kid" picture, you might think he was suspicious too. Point is, exactly how Martin was acting, where he was walking, what he was doing, is speculation unless someone comes out with a video of it. Portraying the scene as a kid doing absolutely nothing and therefore Zimmerman was crazy for saying Martin was acting "suspicious" is prejudging both Zimmerman and the incident as a whole. As for his history of how he's handle the watch, did he ever draw down on any of those people he confronted? Ever pick a fight? Or just get verbal? There's a wide spectrum there, and just because he may take his watch duties a little more seriously than others, doesn't necessarily mean he plays Wild West whenever he can. If Z's story is even close to being true, I don't think Martin became a homicidal maniac, but rather Martin decided to pick a fight that sadly turned deadly. Martin was 17, 6' 200#, in shape, and a lot of kids that age feel indestructible, and at that height and weight, maybe he thought he could take Zimmerman. Wouldn't be the first time a teenager picked a fight with someone older. I think what's actually known, what actual evidence there is, what witnesses have actually said at the very least make this case no where near as cut and dry as say, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the NPP want to make it. I think that Zimmerman's version, or one close to it, is probable enough that people shouldn't be joining the lynch mob. This was my gut reaction when I first read the story. I didn't see it as a race thing, just some moron with a gun and looking to be Mr. Law. But after reading more and more, and listening to others, I've changed my mind. I don't teach my kids to hide in bushes and then jump the guy when he returns to his truck. Anyway, this version is assuming way too much than is known. You assume there was any sort of talk between Zimmerman and Martin. Again, if Zimmerman gave up, started to go back to his truck, and Martin jumped him, its completely unreasonable for Zimmerman to identify him as he's getting pulped. Take the other side. Let's say you legitimately feel that you see a suspicious person where you live. You follow them a little bit so the police can find them. You lose sight of them, head back to your truck when you're hit from behind. Next thing you know, you're head goes into concrete, someone's splattered your nose and you're getting pummeled. You scream for help while trying vainly to fend off your attacker, but to no avail. You know the guy you were following was a pretty in shape guy @ about 200 lbs, and now that its been 10-20-30 seconds, pain is mounting and your body is telling you severe damage has or is about to ensue (if not death). Do you still try to reason with your attacker, or do you pull out your gun and shoot? You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Or we have people trying to incite racist claims were there are none in a particular case. Known facts at this time lend more to this theory than the other. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Or, and this might just be crazy, because it lines up with the facts known thus far and not based in speculation, the shooter isn't racist, the police proved their professionalism by not arresting the shooter based on what they saw when they got there and witnesses interviewed in line with FL law, and the shooter is still free because what went down isn't what the race baiters want you to believe. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 This changes the MSM reports as well You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

He was suggested to by a dispatcher that he didn't need to follow the kid. It was not an order from a LEO. Furthermore, there's at the very least the probability that the shooter didn't actually approach the teen at all, but lost sight of him and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked. Apparently, there is a witness corroborating Zimmerman's version of events that he was the one who was attacked and he was the one on the 911 tapes screaming for help. The mob demanding justice at this point is severely distorting what is actually known at this point. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

You should read the transcript on the Crier interview if you haven't. As for RP specifically, I don't think he wants the media to work in his favor in the sense that he'd have to compromise who he is in order to do so. The big boys of the world may be who they are, but going to the larger picture, they aren't at all looking after anyone, they're -- with us as a whole -- are fulling Adams' prophecy that democracies commit suicide, and that "we would end up with an aristocracy and that the people would willingly abdicate their role." So, if I were RP or in RP's head, I would think saying he "can't" play with them is a compliment. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Thanks for that pdf link. Interesting read. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.