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Thank You, for that. So, basically it's a rip-off by Cali to steal funds for testing the major manufacturers already do? Why doesn't that surprise me (rhetorical question)?

OK, a number of guesses here. I'll toss in mine, too. Kittinger's first jump was from around 72K'. At first, he thought he was just floating there, & would die. He managed to look behind himself, & saw the balloon "Shoot away @1,000MPH." Then, he knew he was falling. The atmospheric density @those altitudes is almost non-existent. The partial pressure suits Kittinger wore were very restrictive. Pilots forced to bail out might be hurt or wounded. My guess? The tendency to go into a flat spin is due to 99% of the atmosphere being below you. Kittinger fell @Mach .9 w/no rippling of the suit material or noise. Your arms & legs are different lengths. There's just enough atmosphere to get a purchase on you, & induce a spin. But, there isn't enough for you to get enough traction on, & stop the spin. It's easier to start a spin, than to stop it. Especially once it gets going. The drogue chute slowed him enough to make it manageable. I found a book on this I enjoyed. It tells all about Joey's jumps. Although it doesn't answer your question. It's titled "The Pre-Astronauts." (Naval Institute Press)

Thank You, for your insights.

I looked around the 'Net a little bit. Even w/package deals. You're going to pay $1,000USD more than here. Ah Well. It is what it is, right? You could save a thousand by switching to another perfectly good container brand. FWIW, this Newbie isn't going to downsize so drastically, ever. My body's too battered, & I've nothing to prove. I'm going to stay w/large canopies. You'll need a larger, smooth-opening canopy for wingsuits. Free Flying might not be as much fun w/a bigger backpack on you. Dunno, I've no experience w/that. Good Luck. I hope you find something. P.S.: Come on. Cypres is made in Germany. We pay about $1450 over here for one. What do they go for there, about 20 Euros? Don't lie. A friend of mine grew up in the Middle East. He said everyone is poor, but they all drive new Mercedes. They're cheap over there.

Good Grief...I know some people here enjoy this sort of thing. I don't. Enough already. I'd previously mentioned Glock's additional internal safeties. I wasn't wrong about them. The only external safety is the little lever in the trigger. If it gets pulled? Well, you know. If a pen tripped the trigger in his book bag?. The other safeties wouldn't have mattered. Maybe I don't understand the way replies' headers appear here, yet. I quoted you from a reply that read "Reply to Quade." Others here have used sarcasm to good effect. It was easily recognizable. Yours wasn't to me. I'd forgotten you did give a brief description of possible causes for this to have happened. I also realize I'm a bit grumpy from being laid up sick @home. I'm sorry I was snippy. Are you familiar w/Cali's drop-testing? I, & Quade, would be interested in reading about it from an Armorer's perspective. I read Quade's reference to California not going far enough to be about their drop-testing.

Really? I thought Germany was an economic center for Europe. I'm sorry to hear that.

I did: post#43. WRONG.... Post #44 to KALLEND. Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim.... Just like I said. I quoted you from #43 & 44. Here's 43 again: Re: [quade] Guns don't kill people . . . [In reply to] Quote | Reply Quote I thought guns weren't supposed to be able to go off accidentally when dropped or wasn't that supposed to be the reason so many people are against the testing guns in California? Depending on the design, a gun can go off if dropped. Examples include weapons without a hammer block (old revolvers and derringers), and open bolt designs (MACS, UZI). Both designs are older and not common anymore in modern firearms. Other examples of a ND can include an object manipulating the trigger. Say a pen pulled the trigger back. That is not the fault of the firearm. Other possibilities involve a damaged weapon. The California "testing" program involves more than just testing. The actual testing is not actually bad, it is all the other BS that is bad.... High costs, permits that expire... Etc. Quote So how DOES that happen? How do people have AAD fires? More importantly.... How did a kid get a gun (Illegal) How did the gun get into a school (Illegal) Quote Either way it's a lose-lose to anti-California testing folks. If it's a gun that wasn't on the list of approved guns, it kind of proves the California system works. If the gun is on the list, then it kind of proves the California system doesn't go far enough. Or it shows the testing is mostly BS and never did anything. ___________________________________________________ I don't know why you're being a peni...I mean a pedant. Quade wasn't calling for more laws. He asked for clarification on gun mechanics, & California's drop-testing. You're an armorer? Then why didn't you explain these things to Quade? Why did you start an argument w/me if we're both pro-gun? It calls your motives into doubt. I'm only replying so quickly because I'm stuck @home sick. What's your excuse?

No it is truth.... You should learn to tell the difference between the two. In one there is an argument for the sake of it. The other is correcting erroneous information. You gave bad information, I corrected you. The fact you didn't like being wrong does not change it from factual to pedantic. Like many other guns it goes BANG!!!! No, but you did (incorrectly) state they do not have safeties. Don't blame me for you getting pissed at being wrong. I'm not P/O'd. I know there are three safeties on a Glock, & had already said so. It's a technicality. If the trigger works? It goes bang.

I'm curious. A lot of pix I see here of European skydiving show American made equipment. Is there a German manufacturer? If not? How do they justify a 25% import tariff? Is it just in case a German company goes into business some day? If you buy new from a German dealer (of American equipment)? Do you still have to pay the tariff? What if you buy it here, & carry it back on the plane?

Maybe you should see who and what I replied to... Then you will see you are NOT up to speed like you claim. I did: post#43.

Truth, you made an incorrect claim. I am a Glock armorer. I have fired almost every model to include the full auto G18. Yes, those and then some. Although we normally pin the rear grip safety on the 1911's. I already did. you made an incorrect comment about the lack of safeties on the Glock. Typical of people that do not really know these types of guns. There are three: They are: • Trigger Safety: An external lever mechanism contained within the trigger that prevents the trigger from moving unless the lever is depressed. • Firing Pin Safety: A spring-loaded pin attached by an extension bar to the trigger assembly blocks the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge until the trigger is pulled. • Drop Safety: The far end of the same extension bar locks the striker into place from the rear until the trigger is pulled. To continue to claim that the Glock does not have a safety is to continue to spread incorrect information and make some people think the gun is somehow less safe than models with safeties all over them. So, it's pedantic. Thank You for clarifying that. I never in any way said or inferred that Glocks are unsafe. You're an armorer? Great! What happens when something pulls the trigger on a loaded Glock? You don't even have to hold the weapon in your hand. Lay it on a table, & pull the trigger back w/a pen. It's going to go bang.

And you have shown to be unable to understand sarcasm. Or, you're not very good @using it.

It is called sarcasm, Einstein. He wants to pass yet another law, when other laws clearly didn't work. Pointing that out is called sarcasm. Do try to keep up None of Quade's posts in this thread are asking for more legislation. No need for me to try & keep up. I AM current.

Your comment is still incorrect. What's your purpose, pedantic or truth? Have you ever fired one of these guns? Have you ever fired something w/grip safeties: Centennial, 1911, H&K, etc? Some guys here like arguing w/trolls. I won't waste my time on it. If you've a valid point? Make it.

"Or it shows the testing is mostly BS and never did anything." "More importantly.... How did a kid get a gun (Illegal) How did the gun get into a school (Illegal) " Now, you're openly admitting that increased legislation is a fatally flawed approach. You're contradicting yourself between posts. Let's try something different. How did you like my Blond joke?

Why don't we just pass laws that: 1. Do not allow a person under 21 to have a handgun 2. Not allow a handgun on a school. 1- laws are already in effect in many states. Bad people don't obey laws, Einstein. 2- Most states already have this law as well. That's why schools are referred to as "Free-Fire Zones..." Hey, who wants pesky return fire when you're out to shoot defenseless people???

False. The Glock has THREE internal safety's I already covered this. Do try & keep up.

It's...your future. I see...a plane ride to a Florida-based manufacturer in the next year or two.

Volatile markets. It's certainly possible that they're bumping the price up based on viewing history. Try Mama's idea. Look around w/a few friend's PCs.

?!?!?!

"My question is could the supplier know what we've looked at before..." Absolutely. It's basic Internet marketing. Just look @your Amazon account. Your previous searches are posted right in front of you. Further, you'll get periodic "Offers" e-mailed to you, based on the products you've recently researched. "...and raise the price when it sees us looking again?" It's possible. I've never seen that. A price-bump program could be added to the site. You didn't say. Suppliers of what?

I am sorry, but anyone that ADMITS to molesting someone should rot in jail as far as im concerned. Im sure in your eyes hes a wonderful man, but put yourself in the victims shoes. IF one person reads this before its deleted then I am happy. +1 Plus this: "Former Girard middle school teacher Gregory Yarbenet, already in prison for molesting a former student, was sentenced to an additional six to 18 months behind bars after he admitted molesting a second student. " http://www.silentlambs.org/newsletter/NewsLetterItem.cfm?SendoutID=151 You gave us a slider, thank you sir for that. But now rot in jail. Yes, to this. Being falsely accused by some out-to-lunch dingbat is one thing. He admitted molesting two children? I can forgive a lot. I can see how maybe someone made a mistake when they were young. They did their time, & hopefully learned a thing or three. Pedophilia, I can not forgive. I think the recidivism rate is >95% for pedophiles. If you have that type of urge. You know it's wrong. Cut it off, or do whatever else you have to. You don't do that to a child.

"I would say that ALL of them are biased to one degree or another." Agreed. I think the ones I mentioned take it to the extreme, though.

From Icarus (the people who made the first viable ZP xbraced) describing the FX: "Cross Brace Tri-cell means the cell is divided into three chambers instead of two and the chambers are diagonally braced to force each cell back into shape." and " * There is less drag because there are less lines. In effect the canopy is a 7 cell not a 9 cell, yet is almost an 11 cell in shape" So, they call them 7 cells. And they call the VX "The #1 fully x-braced ZP 9 cell canopy on the market. But what would they know huh? Yep, and THEY make 7 cell mains as well. I used PD as an example, but hell, now let's look at Icarus: Omega and Omni, both 7 cells. Wanna look at other company's????? Precision makes 2 7 cell mains as well. Flight concepts makes around 10 7 cell main designs. I used PD as an *example*, but now I have provided others as well. If I could interrupt your bonding w/VB for a minute? You cited PD's reference to the Spectre. I like the Storm. I need the softer openings. PD states that the Storm has a greater speed range, & stronger flare than the Sabre2. How much of a grain of salt do I need to take that with?