nigel99

my post wasn't very coherent - what I was alluding to is that is really pisses me off all the outcry of Saddam had WMD - like that in itself was a crime - of course he had them, because WE supplied them to him, actually WE also have WMD... rant is not aimed at you... Again WMD definition seems to growing over time to include anything that goes bang and kills people - and the scope increase to include capabilities to produce WMD is very dangerous. Just because you have the raw ingredients does NOT mean you have the means. It scares me to see the precident that this can set - raw materials in Iraq + western scientists knowledge of what can be done with them does not = WMD. As to your first point as to was it all inert by 2003 - I don't know and I doubt that all WMD have shelf lives that are less than 10 to 20 years - so by implication he probably had some. The really troubling thing though is how did so many people get it wrong? Hanz Blix, David Kay are top names that have conceded that they are puzzled by how little there is to be found. Perhaps it is not WMD that is the question in the middle east but us westerners not understanding what makes their minds tick? If we are so easily duped/mislead how can we ever win the peace? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

yes but the question is do you have an Ammonium nitrate? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I don't think its going to catch on - its been here for 35 years... Started in 1970! Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Can do better - they run an online website from the sun http://www.page3.com NSFW I guess if you work for a conservative US company Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Ok I was just reading the news (BBC) and discovered that Page 3 girls in the sun are unique to britain. Is that true - do any newspapers in the US have topless women in them daily? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

the taliban can't pick nit's with their turbans on so they feel left out Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

UK is definetely worse than what I've seen in the states. Madness on PC - we're not allowed to video our childrens christmas plays/sports days etc in case the video is used for peadophile type reasons?? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Jeez and the US critizes other nations for not protecting WMD's... To think of all the worry about Saddam letting WMD's into terrorist hands. With US ones there is no need to smuggle them in. Mind you with the right to bear arms - a texan somewhere has probably got them in his armament Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Tony Blair? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I believe that both the Reagan administration on the US side and Margaret Thatcher on UK side were key suppliers of WMD to Saddam to aid in the fight against Iran. My source for this allegation is from Robin Cook's biography (ex-foreign minister UK) and hence should know the facts and unlikely to libbel people who are still around. There might be online links I don't know... Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

There is substantial evidence to show that while Saddam was supplied with WMD from the west (UK & USA primarily) he was supplied with the finished product and not the production facilities. This means that while he possessed Anthrax (supplied by the US) it had a 3 to 5 year shelf life - and hence while 10 000 litres was an-accounted for - it was just harmless goo by 2003. Source for this was Robin Cook's biography (Point of Departure) I believe that Saddam had the intent to build WMD but not the capability YET. Again following the other replies I believe it was a bluff - and we also tend to think that everyone thinks like a westerner and they don't. I believe it was a bluff that went wrong/backfired. However we should not forget that the reason that the US/UK supplied him with WMD was a defence against Iran - who no doubt he was still scared of and needed to bluff them. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

talking of idiots and US elections the best comment I have heard was last week on a UK news commedy where a speaker stated "the problem is that essentially George is dumber than Osama" Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I heard an interesting article on BBC radio 4 over the weekend that people are suffering (in the UK) from SPAM from the vote for Bush campaign. The campaign have refused to answer requests to be removed from the list. It seems that the can-spam legislation exempts politicians. UK laws only apply if the spammer is within Europe, and the Data-protection act only if a European entity passed on your details (irrelevant since the UK government breaks the data-protection laws every time we fly to the US by providing ALL of our credit card details etc to an unknown entity with no recourse). It seems the only option open to people is to file a court application under private nuisance laws in the UK in which case a policeman is expected to arrest the offender (in this case the lawyers believe it would be Bush) (unfortunately I can't find a link to the article being on the radio and search engines produce more results than I have time for) Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Thanks I looked first thing and searched under "torture" on bbc news and nothing came up. Firstly this appears to me to be public admission that the US carries out torture to quote from the independant link you posted. Secondly as per my first post - accepting that torture is not "nice" - if it saves lives and protects us - after all the current terrorists are deemed to be suicidal and a prison term would be no deterent - surely it is right to admit the evidence in court? If the courts don't do that then I would expect that these suspects would begin to suffer "accidental deaths" while in military custody... Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I can't find a news article covering what you've posted - but one of the biggest problems that the US has in releasing people from Guantanamo Bay to the UK is that the evidence from Guantanamo is largely obtained "under duress". Lawyers here are pushing the fact that the US has crossed the line into torture as well. This means that the evidence is not admissable in court and the guys go free EVEN if they are guilty. Personally I don't condon torture by anyone, BUT ALL government's do it as part of military operations just that some cleverly dress it up as "psychological operations" and play legal word games to avoid admitting it. It is probably justified in war circumstances as it MIGHT save lives. The problem then comes related to fanatical terrorists - if we feel we have to torture them to save lives - should the legal system allow them to be released? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I swear it looks like there is a child sitting 3rd along in the rubber dingy... Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Does anyone on here know much about embedded OS's? I am doing work for a client and it seems to me that Windows CE is the worst possible implementation of an Embedded OS possible. I am not keen on these desktop OS's shrunk down (WinCE & Linux) but as it is not my field I am reluctant to push something like VXWorks without knowing some background. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I believe only one person has ever been convicted for 9/11 (and that was in Germany) - however his conviction has since been quashed. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Our kids are praised as being the best behaved in their schools (despite the youngest being twins) and they are brought up ALOT more firmly and consitantly than most. So I think lack of discipline/inconsistant discipline and lack of love/attention are the biggest contributers. My wife is amazing with the kids and I don't know how she manages though - I work it's easier Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

well if you like your average man - who spends time burping, farting and drinking beer- then Fatb will make you feel at home... Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Some of these are quite amusing. FatB does quite a bit. http://www.oska.com/combo.php Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I have been researching the background to the Iraq war and what the possible motive's were. I have come up with the following information. 1) The USA & Allies funded an organisation (MAK) which was a terrorist organisation run by bin Laden and an Associate (bin Laden was not the prime contact but 2nd in command) to counter the Russian invasion of Afganistan - they funded this organisation to the value of US$200 million. MAK became Al Quada after the Russians pulled out. (early 80's) 2) The US had long held the view (prior to 9/11) that Islamic terrorists/extremists who were citizens of the USA but who were only supporting/commiting acts of terror that did not harm US interests should not be put under survellience or arrested. 3) Al Quada declared their intention to create Islamic middle eastern states with nuclear capabilities and that these states should then challenge/declare war on the US. (1994/1996) The point of all that - I believe in hindsight that Bush wanted to create a middle eastern democracy and prevent the creation of middle eastern theocracies with Nuclear ambitions. What he and his team seem to have mis-judged is that most nations are proud of their herritage and would prefer rule by a dictator to foreign intervention. It appears that the US is not going to achieve a "democracy" in the manner they intended and there is a significant chance of an extreme Islamic state being created. What would be extremely worrying is if it turns out the intelligence was manipulated by Islamic or Iranian interests to facilitate the downfall of Saddam (remember he ran a secular not islamic state). Summary Bush has either aided Al Quada in their aims of Islamic middle eastern states or he has pre-empted their moves and possibly averted a serious problem in 10 to 20 years time - unfortunately only time will tell. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

ok - I agree with the point about people creationists trying to disprove evolution. They should be focusing on trying to develop their theories further. I am not advocating creationism just open mindedness - to me both theories could be wrong. Shifting it slightly though why are SOME evolutionists so scared of people who disagree with them? I have heard at least 2 occassions on the radio over the past year when senior acedemics have gone bezerk because a school (private not state based) dares to emphasize the fact that there MIGHT be alternatives to darwenism? I mean trying to get a school shut down level of hatred/feeling about the subject. Admittedly the UK is more secular than the states - in fact the same radio station (BBC4) actively mocks Bush for his prayer meetings - when the subject comes up. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

The USA believes in them. On the visa application forms there are exemptions for "Aliens with exeptional abilities". Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Yes the differentiation I am making is between mutation which is accepted fact and undisputable. I am treating seperately the issue of one lower lifeform evolving into a higher life-form. The absense of partially evolved creatures that gradually go from one state to another is I believe in many cases explained away as a radical transition between life-forms. For example the explaination that scales transitioned to either fur or feathers - there are no mid-points to link the 2. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.