Zenister

I'm betting this might have more to do with their reaction... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

October!!! the orginal date was correct, the year was just a typo.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i wonder if you really read the text of links you've posted.. they admit both the lack of primary sources, the lack of outside evidence, and then still try to use the Gospels to assert why such evidence doenst exist.. blind faith is such a scary thing..it creates the exact same type of mindset we are fighting against... those who are willing to believe anything their religion tells them with no evidence at all... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

if the intent was to create actual debate and defense of an 'unpopular' position it isnt really trolling.. of course since so few are actually interested in debate and chose poll options that they dont really believe (which is certainly a form of trolling) it distorts the real purpose.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i'm not sure why buying beer would be 'stupid' even if you dont drink.. but i'd go with the case of Gatorade (just make sure you get a case, it goes faster than beer during the jump day) if your prejudice prevents you from allowing others to enjoy themselves for your 'first' achievements... actually i'd say 'suck it up' and buy the beer... you dont HAVE to drink one yourself if you have personal issues with alcohol... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well that may be true.. there arent many here who are interested in actual discussion, they simply want reinforcement of their existing beliefs..therefore anything that challenges that belief is classified as 'uninteresting' or 'arsinine' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not true. a handful of accounts, all written FAR after the fact (and very possibly, all plagarized from a single source document) all written by believers, by the faithful of a developing religion, to CLAIM that these events happened as they describe.. but the fact is there are NO objective accounts, NO third party sources that back the Gospel's stories as fact, and very very little archeological evidence to support anything other than the basic cultural circumstances recounted.. no matter how often Christians make the same ridiculous appeal as 'history' and if dying for your belief is an indication of Truth, then the extremists Muslims are winning the 'Truth' fight atm... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

there is totally an apparent message, but obviously people need to work more on their critical thinking skills to perceive it.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

wow.. i guess few have ever heard of the Socratic method? no question is asinine.. accepting what is is asinine, if you cant defend why something is the way it is, or why you believe it is/should be that way then perhaps you need to reevaluate..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

there is another simply answer practiced at most DZ that have a 'first down' policy. If you dont like the landing direction set, LAND OFF.. oh wait, then you might have to walk (or you might beat the guys in the grass back because the 'taxi's at Perris and Eloy are pretty quick...) and might get your rig dusty if you cant stand up your landings... but if the set landing direction bothers you that much you should accept the brief walk and perhaps a few min with 'the brush of shame' and if your not aware enough to tell when someone has set up a DW landing before you commit to the pattern........... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Most people select a religious sect that already agrees with their philosophy. see my sig line.. repeated below because it will change eventually... If triangles had a God, he would have three sides.. God did not create man in his image, but Man creates his vision of divinity that way.... God is far more than any cultural mythos... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

two of mine.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

$23???? and i thought the inflation at Perris and Eloy was bad... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

people are WAAAAY strange... if anyone reminds me over a beer one night i'll tell you about the story of a woman and her St. Bernard we caught going at it on their back porch... we started leaving dog biscuits in her mail box everyday on the way to school... i always wondered if her husband knew what she did when he was away... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

if you havent, you REALLY should.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

because apparently (based on alot of beliefs and comments i've seen lately) far to many people get their history from movies and television.. and then regurgitate that 'knowledge' as if it were actually true.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

everyday i become more appalled at how little history people really know... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

it has nothing to do with a 'new radical wave', but thanks anyway for the strawman. It has to do with fundamental spacing and clearance for your intended maneuver, a principles that hasnt changed at all.. the only thing 'new' is the amount and geometry of space required for a high performance approach (one that combines DW,B& F in a tighter area) on a modern wing vs the space required for a large docile square flying long 'standard' DW,B & F legs.... proper spacing, awareness and recognition of space required LONG BEFORE the actual turn, is what appears to be lacking for some... once again if we should be focusing on the education and awareness instead of simply stating "270s are bad um' kay..." ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

iirc Enumclaw means "place of Evil Spirits..." ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

ah the sky god attitude appears oh well guess the discussion is really over, claim a superior position despite the facts and pretend you are correct.... yet, amazingly, somehow, even with multiple planes in the air, the experienced swoopers at DZ's all over the world, STILL manage to perform their 270s safely, even in 'busy' patterns (check BV's definition of 'busy') and yet a single tragic incident and the witchhunt starts... sad really.. maybe you should spend more time watching how the experienced swoopers at your DZ make their turns and STILL remain 'safe' and then, perhaps, you'll recognize the problem is exists in the process, and NOT in any specific technique.. i'm the only one arguing because i'm the only one with the patience to argue with those who have already made up their minds DESPITE years of experience and a very, very few number of incidents.. might be because i'm interested in expanding the education for EVERYONE, instead of the chicken little 'safety nazi' attitude that says 270s are simply not safe... sometimes the attitudes displayed by the 'experienced jumpers' on this site are so far from the reality of modern skydiving its simply laughable... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

there are sleeper cells everywhere but these guys are GOOD! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Re-read what you posted. A 270 is not staying straight in now is it? It they are below you they have the right-a-way. Both are wrong in a pattern with traffic. But for some reason you can't see that. a 270 (combining dw,base,final) takes up little horizontal room and much more vertical space. If set up properly, it should occur completely 'outside' of anyone elses landing pattern until the final portion where it might be parallel to someone who flew 'straight in'. It (the 270 should also occur inside a clear space that does not interfere with anyone elses pattern. S turns on final however take up a VERY large horizontal area and a much smaller vertical one, by the time a slower canopy is performing these S turns (almost always very late into final when they 'suddenly become aware' they are going to overshoot) everyone in the pattern is so low that they have few options available.. of course if the slow and sluggish would simply learn to judge their legs properly they wouldnt have to S turn at all and if swoopers fly to their set up properly they have plenty of space for whatever turn they are performing without interfering with anyone else..sometimes this means spiralling to create space, other times it means hanging in brakes to create the room you require...and sometimes that space simply isnt available and shouldnt be performed at all. In any case, it is the swoopers responsibility to perform their turn in a large enough area that no one else's pattern is affected.... despite the witchhunt it CAN be done safely. Spend a busy day on the ground and watch the experienced swoopers if you doubt... most are very particular about clearing their airspace... when was the last time you saw a slow 'accuracy' boat even look over their shoulder to see who they were screwing?? once again lack of proper spacing for the maneuver you are performing is a problem no matter what your landing technique anyone who is simply 'following' another canopy, or even following so closely that a 'unexpected' 180-270 turn is an issue (out side of CRW) instead of flying their place in the pattern themselves, needs some basic canopy/pattern coaching.. relying on 'following someone else' (which is a different animal than flying in pattern) for anything more than determining landing direction is asking for trouble... someone at 1.0 trying to follow another's pattern at 1.6 (even with 'standard legs' and the same wing) will be waaaaay out of position comparing planes in this regard is silly... a plane can always apply or reduce power and change trim to maintain position relative to another... canopies have fewer options to abort or go around... unless you are swooping a tiny canopy in the first place, its unlikely you'll be anywhere near to the first or second canopy down... and so you should be well aware of the landing direction before you even enter the pattern... if you are aware of the basic landing direction determining any given canopy's turn is MUCH easier... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

they sashay on final taking up 3-4 times the width of their canopy to try and hit their 'perfect' spot, instead of staying straight in their lane and allowing other, often faster canopies to land in lanes that would otherwise be clear beside them... if you miss your turn and overshoot S turns to fix it is JUST AS (if not more) irresponsible in the pattern as anything a swooper could do... by that time a faster canopy might be damn near committed, and a sudden turn on the part of a 'lower, slower' canopy can cause a 'panic stab' to avoid.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

we must free our tiny clay brethren!! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.