Zenister

I bet its nothing compared to the volume of young studs and grey hairs that pass though I drive in Orlando. i'm sure its not, but they are enroute somewhere usually and may stop on a whim. the blue hairs at eloy just come out and sit to watch everyone jump...something less risky than skydiving right near by might tempt quite a few of them... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

That has certainly been my experience in the past. Without a doubt some of the nicest people I've ever met have been labeled "freaks"....normally by the "in crowd". free thinkers rarely look like everyone else...and yet are still persecuted because they look different...the sooner the world learns to not judge by appearances the better... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

rotflmao... thanks i needed that.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

There is a really kick ass recirculating tunnel in Chicago already. It is at the Universtity there...I think windspeeds up to almost 300 MPH. However it is horizontal. some what off topic but has anyone tried tracking/wingsuits or just freeflying in a horizontal tunnel? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no idea where i'll be, or how much time i'll have off...maybe there, maybe near a bridge somewheres.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

so much for touring to make it big... sorry cant handle modern 'manufactured' music.. it all sounds the same... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not so sure about this, Eloy gets a large number of grey haired visitors, many of them can be talked into doing tandems after a bit of conversation (i've helped a few make up their minds) many more could be talked into tunnel time after watching for a bit... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I agree! They prefer to dwell on the negatives as opposed to doing something to try and change it. What a shame... Yet another personal attack deleted. I spend a great deal of my time and energy defending your way of life, and i continue to fight against and change a great deal of the misery and oppression i find more and more prevalent in American culture of late. When is the last time you changed (or even tried to change) anything? maybe you shouldn’t be throwing stones? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

You might then come back and say that the elderly person, if they were in their right mind prior to their present condition, made the choice to DNR or to allow the immediate family to make the decision when the time came. I'd say that the unborn baby never got the chance to determine that or make a decision. In all probability, if left alone (I know there are special cases), the baby would be born and grow up just like you and me. I'm quite sure, if it was possible to go back in time, that they wouldn't take their mother's situation for "choosing to abort" into consideration and decide to go along with it elliminating the possibility of their existence. Is that "out there?" Sorry... how about you leave me to express my own ideas since you clearly have no idea what i'm going to 'come back and say'. I dont try to make incomplete, illogical arguments for you, how about you extend me the same consideration? in actuality, left alone the fetus would quickly die in our atmosphere. It requires the mothers womb to allow it to develop. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

So, by your definition of when there is life considered worth protecting, you must also be in favor of euthanasia. What about a person who can’t live without life support (i.e. breathing machine, feeding tube, etc.)? Does that person then cease to be human enough to “let live” because he/she can’t do it for themselves? Do you just begin to “call them by another name” so as to make the killing more justifiable or acceptable to most? Just like, instead of calling the ‘unborn’ a child, you call it a parasitic organism? I'm very glad that you don't determine standards for everyone. not at all. Your creating a straw man arguement here, a poor form of debate. that individual already has those rights so you would be taking them away. A fetus cannot/could not/ will not be able to survive on its own without its host. It is never an individual to be granted the rights of one. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

thats part of it.. i read that one and paired with a few others in a magazine a few weeks back and havent been able to look for it again... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

agreed. then try and catch me......... there is more to life than money, skydiving is part of life.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

so long as they are behaved and out of the way i dont mind them at all...of course like most places there is a time when kids shouldnt be about... its not disney land... wasnt there a 6 year old running around perris saying "pull or die"? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Juries awarding large cash settlements have paved the way for frivolous lawsuits. Fix the jury problem and the frivolous lawsuits will follow. true but how do we "fix" juries? educate the citizens... require some level of civic service/military duty before granting citizenship and participation in electorial and judicial processes... not perfect, but at least you'd have some sort of common experience pool to draw from. Currently all you need is an ignorant opinion and enough time to sit thru jury selection... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

an assertion, but however much you assert it, it is still your morality, and that of your religion. Nothing more, morals vary from culture to culture and individual to individual. Some believe killing of ANY life is always wrong. As I said.. God gave us free will. You choose to support a woman's right to kill an innocent life I choose not to. In everything you say.. You never once take into account the unborn child's right to live.. an oxymoron, there is no 'unborn' child. It is not a child, it is a fetus. It will/would not/ could not ever become a child without the enviroment to develop in, and that is the standard. At the point at which it could live on its own (ithout artificial support)it is a 'child', with realized potential, and has the same rights as any other individual. Until then it requires the support and consent of its host to grow, and the rights of the host take precedence. You seem to think its ok to force your morality on the mother ( the host) and require her to allow that organism to develop. If your morality viewed the wart as an expression of divine favor you'd be arguing it has rights apart from its host too.... its rather simple, edically verifiablle, repeatable standard, that you cant seem to grasp. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

nioce! who needs wings? wow. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Who have I judged? your supporting law that makes life decisions for another aware,thinking adult. By taking away their freedom to decide what happend to their body your are attempting to impose your morality on them, this is a judgement and because they dont make the decisions your morality agrees with you find them wanting (lacking your morals) and support a social attempt to eliminate that freedom of choice. as i said, an omnipotent, omniscient divinity will not allow any deaths that interfere with his plan, why dont you just leave it up to him and leave the decisions where they rightfully rest, with the mother? if God has a problem with it i'm sure he'll make it known one way or another, he certainly doesn’t need you lobbying for him… or are you going to continue to second guess God? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I can't. He's who I will stand before on my judgement day. of course that leaves it up to him to judge, which you seem all to ready to do for others here on earth... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

That is once again your opinion. They are like assholes. We all have them. Some smell more than others.. lol nope its not opinion. its a repeatable, verifiable standard. humans live in a specific enviroment, if you cant live in the enviroment of your species (without artifical support) your not a functioning member of that species, you many however be life, you just wont be for long.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

absolutely except in cases where birth would endanger the mother. Although i'm hesitant to rely on the miracles of modern science to determine whats viable. I would set the standard at natural means, not those modern medicine now allows. I'd also limit the number of abortions allowed, no one should be using it as a means of birth control.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Wrong... There are other developmental stages. - Zygote - Embryo - Morula - Blastocyst - Fetus None of the names given during the stages of development takes away from the fact that it is, in FACT, still human. what do humans breath? how many of those stages can survive in a 'human environment'? your not 'human' until you can live in the same environment as the adult of your species (without artificial support) ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

would seem that an omnipotent, omniscient God already knows and planned for who would and would not have an abortion so you might as well leave him out of it, as arguing about what 'God' wants is a moot point, the only backing you have for her opinion is books that are inarguably written by MAN no matter how much you claim divine inspiration... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

reply] It's not just "her body." Review the pictures from post #5. until the fetus can support its own life functions it is absolutely 'her body'. That's your definition. You're a logical person Zennister and I think you're pretty intelligent. I fail to see how you can logically take your stance, however. Can you admit that you don't really know when the human life begins? Can you admit that nobody knows? I know what you think but you can't prove that it doesn't become a life worth saving or human enough to let live only when it becomes able to survive without the mother. it may be a life worth saving, however its interests do not bear equal weight to those of the host (mother) until it is capable of sustaining life on its own. Until then, as it is completely dependant on the mother for the most basic functions that define life, breath, digestion etc... its interests are also dependant on the mother, and no one other than the life that sustains its existence should make decisions regarding the continued relationship between the two. this includes you, me, the sperm donor and most particularly the government. its a very simple, medically verifiable, logical standard to go by no inference required, by legislators or priests ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

It's not just "her body." Review the pictures from post #5. until the fetus can support its own life functions it is absolutely 'her body'. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

not at all, i have quite the collection of female singers.. but no show tunes.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.