Robert99

Georger, do you know how to read?

Georger continues to be disingenuous himself and is apparently unable to comprehend that it is actually the ARINC teletype transcripts that the WSHM examined. Anyone interested in what the WSHM personnel did should refer to their work product on their study on this matter. But I don't remember anything in the WSHM study that claimed redactions in individual posts. Instead, they believed that some entire posts were missing. If Georger had actually read the ARINC transcripts, he would know that they have always contained unredacted posts related to other aircraft as well as the hijacked airliner. The main conspiracy and coverup in this entire matter is the one between Georger's ears.

The only thing I posted on Sluggo's site was done at his request and is still there.

Basically, the above is just more baloney from Georger. I have never done a conspiracy theory. And Dr. Edwards has never said any such thing to me. Also, I don't remember discussing what is now known as the Western Flight Path with Sluggo and there was no need to do so. One look at the so-called FBI flight path was all I needed to dismiss it. The Western Flight Path has been fully explained here on DropZone and Shutter's site over the last 14 years. Georger, you do not seem able to handle simple facts. In my opinion, you need professional help.

Flyjack, what is your real reason for not wanting anyone to examine the Hayden parachute? Probably "half a dozen" people had examined the packing cards by the time the FBI got their hands on them the night of the hijacking. Your own priorities, whatever they are, are screwed up.

Georger, read the following carefully. I also knew Sluggo and, in fact, I am the one who provided Sluggo's contact information to you. Sluggo never made any statements to me similar to the ones you claim he made to you regarding redactions. I suggest you take a look at Sluggo's site which can be accessed thru Shutter's site. WSHM personnel did a study of the ARINC (repeat ARINC) transcripts a few years ago when they had access to the George Harrison papers. They determined that some relevant transcripts were missing. WSHM personnel provided me with a copy of their study and I have referred to it from time to time. So the basis for statements about missing or redacted ARINC teletype transcripts is based on the WSHM work product and not on something I did. The Aeronautical Radio Incorporated (ARINC) company provides subscription services to the airlines. It is not a US Government organization. The Air Traffic Control system in the USA is operated by the Federal Government. The air traffic control radio transcripts of communications with the hijacked airliner have been released in a redacted version. After examining the ATC transcripts, I noted 19 areas of redactions. I have explained these redactions repeatedly over the last 14 years and there is no need to repeat the explanations here. To summarize: WSHM personnel determined the missing or redacted portions of the ARINC teletype transcripts. I did not have anything to do with this. I am the one who claims that there are 19 areas of redactions in the ATC radio transcripts. WSHM did not have anything to do with this. Georger attempts to confuse the matter in pursuit of his own agenda.

Flyjack, you don't need to touch the packing card to open and inspect the parachute. So there is no reason for you to panic. In any event, the packing cards have probably been touched by dozens if not hundreds of unknown people by this time and are worthless as far as DNA goes.

Flyjack, calm down! There is no need to panic. How could determining what is actually in that parachute container be a mistake?

Georger, this is just more of your silliness. I have never made a claim about WSHM that didn't originate with them. I am me and they are them. Or something like that. On the Western Flight Path "debate", the WFP was developed in 2009 and I really don't remember when I heard of the WSHM but it was probably several years after that. And I probably have several decades more experience in determining flight paths and redactions than anyone at WSHM. If I had the unredacted radio transcripts, I would not need any further inputs from the USAF, FBI, or anyone else. Last week was the 14th anniversary of my logging on to DropZone. And the late Sluggo was the one who told me where to find it.

My point is that whatever seal is on the Hayden parachute is not going to be replaced by another rigger's seal regardless of what packing card goes with the parachute. I doubt very much that the Hayden parachute is from the early 1940s. If so, it would have been about 30 years old in 1971. There was plenty of unused surplus military parachute equipment available post WW2 so that an essentially new (or at least unused) rig could be assembled by a rigger for a dirt-cheap price. Would you believe $40 or so? And I suspect that is what Cossey did with the Hayden rigs.

Last thing first. If anyone lives in the Seattle area and is willing to contact Jeff Farrington and the WSHM to try to arrange for a detailed inspection of the Hayden parachute, including opening the container and inspecting and photographing the canopy and risers plus the overall rig, I will happily reimburse their expenses (as long as they stay in the lower three digits before the decimal point). It should be noted that once the Cossey packing seal has been broken, it is highly unlikely that any rigger is going to put his own seal on a 50+ year old parachute even if he does repack it. Meaning that the Hayden parachute is a museum piece and is going to stay that way. My definition of an NB-6 parachute rig is as shown in the pictures of one that is in Sluggo's work which can now be accessed through Shutter's site. The NB-6, with a 26-foot conical canopy, that I owned in 1971 appears identical to Sluggo's NB-6. And I inspected every stitch on the NB-6 rig that I owned. My only reserve ride was on a 24-foot twill canopy. But that is another long story. Anyone willing to work together to get the Hayden parachute inspected should feel free to send me a PM.

Flyjack, you are wrong! Have you ever seen a 26-foot conical parachute? I have owned one, used it in flight, and seen ever stitch in it. There are several things unique about the 26-foot conical parachute rig. Do you know what they are? The canopy in the WSHM parachute is a standard 28-foot canopy. There is nothing unique about that rig.

As has previously been explained here a number of times, the parachute in the WSHM is NOT a 26-foot conical parachute. It does NOT have a single component that can be identified as being a part of a 26-foot conical rig. Hayden has stated that his parachutes were similar or identical. The WSHM parachute appears to have been assembled from a grab bag of military surplus parachute components that were never part of one particular rig. If you want to see what a 26-foot conical parachute looks like, go to Sluggo's site on Shutter's web page and take a look at his pictures of one. Sluggo's pictures are identical to a genuine 26-foot conical parachute that I owned in 1971 just a few months before the hijacking. Basically, everything that Cossey claimed about the parachutes involved in the hijacking is nonsense.

This William Wayne Walker lived in Washington state. The William Wayne Walker who posted as Sluggo lived in Southeast Alabama. Are you sure these are the same person?

And Tina didn't go to the cockpit until about 5 or 10 minutes after the takeoff from SEATAC.

Flyjack, read my previous posts on this. Just exactly where did you find this acronym? It looks like it may be something used by controllers rather than pilots.

CRAFT is NOT an acronym for an IFR procedure. It is apparently something used by NWA to consolidate important information in one place. NWA pilots in all likelihood used the High and Low Altitude IFR maps and the IFR Approach plates produced by the Jeppesen company. Since airliners were required to be on IFR flight plans in normal operations in the 1971 time frame, the pilots of NWA 305 probably only had the Jeppesen maps and approach plates for the routes they were scheduled to fly and nearby locations and only for airports that could handle 727 aircraft. These Jeppesen maps and approach plates were always referred to by their actual names.

And you need to read the post you are replying to. No one other than Cooper has claimed that the cockpit could control the aft stairs. But the aft stair controls were not necessarily the same from airline to airline or to other organizations that used the 727. Boeing sells 727s and the buyers specify some of the equipment that they want in their aircraft. IFR procedures do not necessarily "require" maps in abnormal situations such as this hijacking. The airline crew didn't know if they could make it to Reno until they were already in the Portland area and NWA aircraft performance engineers concluded that it could make it there and so informed the crew. Basically, the airliner didn't know where it was going to end up when it took off from SEATAC. And air traffic controllers plainly told the flight crew if you have to land at a location, and do not have maps for that location, we will talk you through the landing.

The 727s used in SEA by Air America and other organizations didn't necessarily have the "standard" controls for the aft stairs. The hijacking may have been the first time that Cooper had seen the aft stair controls in a US airline 727. Also, in ordering 727s an airline could probably specify to Boeing the flap degrees for the flap lever indents that they wanted in their aircraft. At 15 degrees flap deflection, the leading edge slats and the leading edge Kruger flaps would most likely be in use and that alone would specify a limiting airspeed for the 727 airliner. The IFR "clearance" for the hijacked airliner was essentially given when the air traffic control people told the airliner crew to "do whatever you have to and we will keep people out of your way." There was no detailed IFR clearance requested by the airliner crew or given by air traffic control.

Flyjack, when you write "there should be no assumption that the content [of the letter] is true or honest", perhaps you should have included "or fake". The contents of the letter moved the needle for me to believe that the letter was fake. People trying to inject themselves into famous public incidents is exceedingly common. And the appropriate investigators have to take actions of one kind or another to identify them.

If he tied the money bag securely to his leg and the parachute harness, then it should still be with him when he landed whether he was a pull or no-pull. The paratrooper leg bags are tied to the harness and only released to swing from the lanyard when getting ready to land. If Cooper just tied the money bag to his body or parachute harness by a lanyard, as Tosaw seems to suggest, then you have an "earth and moon" situation and that would change the free-fall dynamics if he delayed opening. This is bad news with an unpredictable outcome.

This letter is undoubtedly a fake. He claims not to be a "boasting man" but that is exactly the purpose of the letter.

Let's crunch some numbers here and all are related to the Cooper jump. The typical shroud lines used on parachutes in the 1971 era were rated at about 550 pounds tensile strength each under static conditions. Using 25 pounds for the weight of the money and its bag (it was actually about 22 pounds), a single shroud line should be able to support 22 times the weight of the money bag under static conditions. According to Tom Kaye's measurements, Cooper cut enough shroud lines from the second reserve parachute to wrap around the money bag about 10 times. And he would surely use more than a single line to attach the money bag to himself or his parachute harness. Consequently, it is a reasonable assumption that Cooper securely attached the money bag to himself or his backpack harness. The opening shock of Cooper's parachute would probably be an impulsive load, as opposed to a static load, of about 10g's or less. If tied as mentioned above, the money bag should easily remain attached to Cooper or his rig. If Cooper had an open canopy and went through some trees on landing, the money bag might be damaged to some extent but would still be essentially intact in my opinion. But if Cooper were a no-pull, we have a completely different story. If he impacted at sea level, his minimum speed would be at least 120 MPH if he were in a stable sky diver position with his body parallel to the ground. But that is also unlikely and his real speed would probably be at least 175 or 200 MPH and he would probably be tumbling. A significant force is required for the money bag to be damaged enough for the bills to later emerge. If Cooper landed on top of the money bag while doing 120+ MPH, a pneumatic rupture would occur but it would probably be relatively minor and the vast majority of the bills would remain in the bag. This is not like popping a balloon since there is not very much air in the bag to begin with. The money found at Tena Bar was probably in a damaged money bag when it arrived there. And there is a good chance that the bag was still tied to Cooper's remains or his parachute harness. Some bills came out and the rest of the bag plus Cooper and his parachute harness went on down stream.

Here is the story about flight schedules for EVERY airline in the USA in the 1971 time frame. And I used these things regularly. Aviation navigational publications, including schedules, were updated every eight weeks (or 56 days). All of these airline schedules included airline, flight number, cities served, times, days of operation, aircraft used, and other such information. This entire information was published in a large NY telephone size book that was available at every travel agent, airline ticket office, libraries, and elsewhere. The airlines would then publish and distribute their own schedules throughout their system. In the 1970 NWA schedule for flight 305, I do not see Portland, Oregon being mentioned although the aircraft was listed as a 727. So to correct my earlier statement quoted above, it was NWA 305 service to Portland that was apparently started about October 1971. Cooper would have access to any of the schedule sources mentioned above and noticed that the aircraft used on 305 was normally a 727. But sometimes the usual aircraft would be unavailable and other designs would be substituted. Cooper was just checking with the ticket agent to verify that a 727 was inbound to Portland as NWA 305. And it was. Cooper knew that the 727 had been tested with the aft stairs lowered and that parachutists had jumped from those aft stairs. He had other information appropriate to the 727 but he did not have all of the information necessary to operate the aft stairs.

Cooper also told Tina later that he knew the 727 could be flown with the stairs down. So it seems logical that Cooper would be looking for a 727. Also, the 727 had only started being used on that flight about three months earlier. It appears that Cooper was just checking to make sure a 727 was being used on the flight that day as mentioned in the airline publications.