Robert99

It is plainly obvious from this picture that the chute is too big to be anything other than a 28-foot canopy in container designed for such canopies.

I don't remember any training on tying knots in the military. But your last sentence is absolutely correct. Keeping the bag with him during the jump does require some really good tying.

No one has claimed that the Boy Scouts were involved in parachuting. But as very young Boy Scouts, my friends and I were trained in and passed tests in knot tying and surviving in the Cascade Mountains in Washington State.

Many of these skills could have also been learned in the Boy Scouts stating at the age of 12 years.

Regardless of what the card says, the canopy is much too large to be a 26-foot conical canopy. The 26-foot conical canopy had several unique features which included the shroud lines being sewn into the risers rather than being joined by separable links. Also, the shroud lines stopped at the canopy skirt and cloth tapes went over the top of the canopy and joined the shroud lines at the skirt on the opposite side. The end result is that the 26-foot conical canopy could be packed in a much smaller volume than the 28-foot canopy. Presumably, 377 packed his 26-foot reserve in the same container that originally held a 24-foot reserve. While on this subject, my 26-foot conical canopy's container had a small zipper pocket inside the container, and underneath the packed shroud lines, that could hold small pieces of survival type items. A tracker could have been placed inside this pocket and the jumper would never have had any idea that it was there.

I presume Andrade Senior went through the airborne school training during a summer while he was at the USAFA.

Military parachutes in the post WW2 era had packing slots and cards. And in all probability the rigger (or loft) kept a separate log of all the parachutes they packed and/or repaired, etc.. Civilian riggers keep a log of the emergency parachutes they pack and my rigger, and skydiving instructor, has my autograph in his logbook. And suitable refreshments from me accompanied that logbook signing. I have flown wearing 24-foot seat packs that had packing cards. I have descended on a 24-foot reserve parachute but landed in some trees and didn't make it all the way to the ground. I have seen helicopter pilots wearing emergency parachutes under certain circumstances. I owned and flew a Navy NB-6 with a 26-foot conical canopy until just a few months before the Cooper hijacking. The Hayden rig at the WSHM has a 28-foot canopy which can be determined by just looking at it. Since Hayden said both of his parachutes were similar, it can be assumed that Cooper jumped with a 28-foot canopy. All members of a USA military flight crew would receive instructions on bailing out and parachute descents and landings. This would be mandatory.

Chaucer, your claims above are nonsense. Air Traffic Control told the airliner crew before they took off in Seattle to "do whatever you have to do and we will keep people out of your way". Basically, that was the entire "prescribed flight path". The airliner was free to go anywhere it wanted to. ATC knew where the airline was during the entire flight from Seattle to Reno since it was transmitting a transponder code during that time. "The entire military-security apparatus of the United States either overlooked or actively covered it up for unknown reasons" is almost partly true. The military apparatus didn't overlook or cover up anything that evening. But the FBI, if that is what you call the "security apparatus", has prevented the unredacted Seattle ATC radio communications transcripts from being released. Chaucer, it should be noted for your benefit that neither the FBI nor FAA has denied the existence of the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts. The FBI has prevented their release and the FAA defers to the FBI since this is a criminal case.

Chaucer, we do agree on one thing. And that is you are wasting your time with the above post. After the airliner took off from Seattle, the ground winds didn't mean a thing. It was the winds aloft that were important and the winds were never greater than about 35 knots at 10,000 feet, and also entirely from the southwest (225 degrees true), during the entire flight to Reno. The winds aloft above 10,000 feet don't mean a thing either. You and Chaucer need to get the FAA aviation weather book mentioned earlier. Both of you know less about aviation weather than any 16- or 17-year-old boy or girl who takes the written test to get a pilot's license.

FlyJack, the only wind data available for the evening of the hijacking is that produced by the National Weather Service and that includes such things as the NOAA balloon data, the FAA hourly sequence reports for the various airports that have a Flight Service Station, or its equivalent for the weather data, on site. Tom Kaye has obtained and posted all of the above information that is relevant to the hijacking. All predictions of the future weather must be based on that data since there is no other data. You and Chaucer seem to feel that you have other sources for weather data. Just exactly what are those sources? The political term "alternate data" won't work here. Why do you and Chaucer refuse to get a copy of the FAA's publication "Aviation Weather" and study it? Knowledge is power.

FlyJack, your claim to having information that is somewhere beyond top secret and cannot be released to mere mortals is nothing but a cop out. EU and others, and that includes me, have posted their work and publicly stood by it for better or worse. Just take EU up on his invitation and prove everyone else wrong. In the meantime, put up or shut up.

Flyjack, in case you didn't get the memo, the time and place of Cooper's jump is not known with certainty.

Flyjack, it has already been posted and discussed on Shutter's site. I suggest you check there.

Georger, as you well know or at least should know unless you have got your head up your own ass, I have never said any such thing about Soderlind. But just exactly what did Soderling say? If I remember correctly, Dr. Edwards has pointed out that the FBI has never released Soderlind's information.

I have corrected the typos in your response above which now correctly reads: "Sorry for the typo - are you happy now? (Signed) Prick." Georger, you need a spelling and grammar checker.

Georger, just exactly where is the BTL VOR?

Did they take their notes as they listened or did they write them up, or add to them, later? Do you know where the teletype machine was located? Was it in the same room with them? Who was acting as the "communicator" with the aircraft? The communicator would probably be the NWA Chief Pilot at SEATAC (Lee ???) but George Harrison would be on that phone patch in Seattle as well. Soderlind was also on the phone patch in Minneapolis.

They were obviously not on the phone patch and were getting their times from the teletype printouts. Are the Stuart and Jim McClellands you mentioned the same person?

Olemiss, contrary to your claim the 8:18 PM time is the time that the airline crew radioed the ARINC facility that they were 23 DME nautical miles south of the Portland VORTAC (now the Battleground VORTAC). Some personnel, but not everyone, at the NWA facility at SEATAC were plugged into a phone patch with the ARINC facility and were talking directly with the flight crew at 8:18 so that time is valid. Normally, the ARINC facility passed messages from aircraft crews to their airline through a teletype network. After getting the radio message, the ARINC personnel would have to "format" (their term) the message and type it into the teletype system. The time that the teletype message was sent was automatically entered at the end of the message when the typist pushed the "send" button. So the 8:22 time shown on the teletype copy of this exchange is the time it was sent. But the airliner was at the 23 DME mark at 8:18. The above has been pointed out numerous times over the last 14 years so it is nothing new. Just a simple explanation of something some people don't seem to understand.

Georger, you are the one with the obsession.

Georger, goggle "FAA Air Traffic Control History" and work your way to the appropriate section that defines and explains how "shrimp boats" were actually used in early air traffic control. I'm sure you will learn something. But "shrimp boats" were not used in 1971.

Georger, both of the links that you have provided have big time problems. The one above describes "shrimp boats" in the same manner as the RAF model. You have described "shrimp boats" as being paper cards on something like a name plate fixture as in the last paragraph above. These cards are actually shown in one of the links you provided. In neither case is the location of the aircraft written on those cards. Basically, the term "mark your shrimp boats" doesn't mean anything especially in the 1971 time frame. If the hijacked airliner was tracking V-23, it could have provided its exact location to the Seattle Center in 10 seconds (I timed it).

The brass holder with a paper page inserted in it was not a "shrimp boat". A shrimp boat was something that you may have seen in pictures of the RAF Fighter Command. The RAF shrimp boats were on a large scale map of Southern England and were moved regularly as the locations of the RAF fighters and German aircraft engaged. The set-up just described was used to maximize the efficiency of the RAF aircraft and it worked. The RAF fighters won the Battle of Britian thanks to such command actions and the introduction of radar.

Georger, contrary to your claim the Columbia River does NOT flow "east to west by Tena Bar". The Columbia River flows south to north at Tena Bar and for several miles both south and north of Tena Bar. To be more precise, specifically at Tena Bar the Columbia River actually flows at approximately 002 degrees with respect to True North. If the airliner was on a straight line between the Malay and Canby Intersections, it would have passed about 1000 feet to the west of Tena Bar and would have flown straight down the Columbia River for several miles.

It is surprising that the crew didn't record their location when they thought Cooper had jumped since they had been told to flash their navigation lights when he did. The airliner did have two knotted ropes (not ladders) in the cockpit for the crew to exit thru the cockpit windows when they couldn't exit thru the cabin. These ropes were permanently installed and are included in present day large aircraft.