BruceSmith

Hey, Orange, thanks for the kind words. Speaking of Africa, I'm having flashbacks of my first girlfriend, a woman named Michele who told me a fantastic story of being 10 years old in 1960 and how she and her family had to leave the Congo in the middle of the night to escape the troops of anti-colonial forces. They fled to what was then called Rhodesia, where she grew up until high school and then her family relocated to Brussels, Belgium. I met her during our freshman year of college in Philadelphia, and at the time I just accepted her story, including her description of her father as an executive of Arrow shirts. Now, I figure he was a CIA operative, or some kind of shadowy State Department envoy and they had to skidaddle Lumumba's guys, taking a rest stop in the white man land of R before he found a new job in the NATO world of Bruxelles, as she spelled it. When Billy said Bradon went to Africa, I assume he's talking about Angola. Any thoughts on what else Bradon might have been doing in your neck o' the woods? (Hey, Michele, give me a call!)

I’m just finishing reading Billy Waugh’s book, “Hunting the Jackal,” and a couple items popped out for me. Most interesting is his statement that the MACV SOG units were funded by the CIA, and were essentially CIA ops done by Army personnel. Billy also included a hand-written note about Ted Bradon. He said Bradon went AWOL from SOG operations in Vietnam and next appeared in Africa doing work for an “OGA” (Other Government Agency?), then got cashiered out of the US Army and was never heard from again. Billy also said that he has no factual proof that Bradon was Cooper, but that his looks and behavior (loner, “nads as big as watermelons,” etc.) match Cooper’s. As for the book and Billy’s story, like Snowmman, (I think), I found some of the tales not quite ringing true for some reason. Others ring solid, though. Also, I particularly enjoyed Billy’s self-reflections towards his love of war and the warriors he fought with. Overall, Billy has given me a tremendous view into the operations and culture of the CIA, and covert ops both Army and Intel. One thing did surprise: no mention at all of 727s. Hmmm. In short, thanks, Billy Waugh.

Yes, indeed. My prior posst was a little muddled.

Quote I like your definition of a hero, Jerry. But I'd like to add that a hero does something that is important - they make a real difference in someone's life. It's easier to see a hero in wartime, I suppose, because lives are being saved by others. But simple heroes from everyday life count, too. For me, some teachers stand out because they never gave up on me, respected me, and honored me as I was. Along these lines, I was just writing to Jerry in a pm that the discussion of the past few days has made me think about some of the vets I worked with in a VA psych unit. To date, they are some of the most honest men I have ever encountered. Telling me how much they liked war had a great impact in my life, and it was certainly revealing of theirs. Thinking back to those days, and learning more here of the tremendous focus and tenacity of these SOG warriors, it all has opened up my eyes to the importance of the war experience for so many men. I used to dismiss it as a craziness; now I see it is vital, perhaps even crucial somehow. That importance, to me now, conveys a sacredness I never saw before.

Remember guys, Galen Cook says that Florence Schafner told him that DB Cooper was wearing make-up, saying," A woman notices that kind of thing."

Maybe we could find the MK Ultra hooker list with a FOIA request and go from there. They might be a bit long in the tooth by now but they are CIA approved for covert ops. Bruce, can we task you with this job? 377 I'm on it, 377. -BAS

Quote Hey guys… I found out something that is really important! I found a conspiracy! Did you know that Jo Weber and Billy Waugh live just 30.2 statute miles apart (by car). How’s that for a conspiracy… if you don’t get what I mean… I’ll ‘splain it to you. You see… Jo’s house is here and Billy’s house is there, just 30 miles away, and you know… that means… well, that means… WELL, I DON”T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THAT MEANS! But it must be some kind of conspiracy… right…. Cousin Bruce, help me out here!

QuoteWhat does everyone think about Billy W's resemblance to the FBI sketches? Sluggo? Safe? Snow? Orange? Others? Quote The age-progression sketch is striking, 377. It's got my attention. Also, your comments about McCoy possibly faking a psychiatric episode to set-up a possible insanity plea if caught is intruiging. It's certainly a possibility, and worthy to keep on file. But the read I get on McCoy from Calame, Rhodes and Tosaw is not someone who was that deliberate. Smart, yes. But planning a fall-back legal ploy? Hmmm, no. Afterall, he had no real plan after landing with the $500,000 and was shoving it into a stovepipe in the basement. Feds found it straight-away.

Congratulations, Sluggo, you got more from Billy than I did. The email I sent to Billy Waugh today received the terse comment "I am not interested in speaking of the matter." Yet, he has a suspect or a lead at his fingertips, and is knowledgeable of DBC details, ie: date. Hmmm. my curiosity grows.

I just have this nagging hunch that Cooper knew about or was involved in paradrop activities in SE Asia. Quote I have the same nagging hunch, Three-Seven-Seven. And it ain't going away. Also, I share your nagging hunch that the find at Tena's Bar was a plant by somebody. If Momma Nature had done it, I would expect a recognizable plume-field of 20 dollar bills, with shards of different shapes and sizes across the beach.

Quote That's my read too, Snow, that McCoy shows how a desperate, determined, fearlesss-to-the-point-of-reckless (re: his Vietnam chopper rescues) skydiver with only a few free-falls in practice can do the Cooper jump successfully. I'd also like to add that Tosaw writes that McCoy was also admitted to a psychiatric hospital for Vietnam-related "stress" during the time he was learning how to free-fall.

My inclination is that the FBI did not pursue the links to Vietnam, SOG, Air American, etc. And they still don't. Note how Larry Carr makes a link from his Dan Cooper comic book to suggesting that Danny Boy must have been stationed in Belgium, where they speak French in half the country (and certainly in the neighborhoods around NATO HQ in Brussels.) Or perhaps DBC had a connection to French Canada. But, Ckret never mentions the fact that the french-connection might have been in French Indochina! What? Larry doesn't have any Vietnam vet buddies or watch Vietnam flix, where speech is peppered with phrases like, "Beaucoup VC." ? Why not put the French comic book hero, Dan Cooper, and his fans (and readers) in Dien Bien Phu? They sure could have used him in 1954.

My primary fascination with SOG, Vietnam, Air America, etc. is what the FBI did with this element of the DBC case. To whit: How extensive was it, who conducted the inquiries, how were they received by Charlie Farrell, J. Edgar and whomever else was running the Cooper case? And, ultimately, what was done about it? But, being that the FBI hasn't been that chatty with me, I'm sifting through the stuff that you and the rest of the DZ crew have been so diligent in providing. Hence, my gratitude. Of course, further down the road there's another side to this: were any of the warriors in SOG, et al. recruited for really special ops, like MKULTRA or J WAVE, or know-knows-what-else. On a personal note, I don't think MSG Billy Waugh is Danny Boy. Jumping out of a commercial jetliner twenty minutes out of Sea-Tac seems like too-small a potato. But, somebody who knew him, like a cousin or a neighbor, and heard the stories and how he did it,.......ah, that might be the ticket. On another personal note, Snow, judging from what I've read here over the past six months I have a lot of help in holding down the conspiratorial fort. (smile).

Snow, Would you please elaborate on your views of Tom Kaye. Thanks. A few posts back you inferred that Tom Kaye might not be exactly who he says he is. What creates that doubt for you? I'm not defending him, I'm just curious. Here's what I know: The Burke Museum at the UW in Seattle does not have any Tom Kaye in their staff directory. However, the Museum's director told me in an email that Kaye is a part-time contracting paleontologist for the Museum and currently on a dig. My subsequent email to Tom Kaye was quickly replied to, and in it Kaye said he was on a dig in Wyoming. He also said that the citizen sleuth thing had gone "black," whatever that means. I assumed from the context that he meant "dormant" and not necessarily black ops, undercover, etc. But.........? What say you?

Does the conditions of the cut cords tell us anything about how they were cut, and what kind of knife was used? Snowmman - excellent work here, sir, on these many pages of Vietnam, SOG, Billy Waugh postings. Thank you, immensely.

DZ Notes: Phone Conversation with Captain Bill Rataczak, June 27, 2009. I've had some lingering questions about a variety of topics discussed here over the past few months and so I call Captain Bill Rataczak for some clarity. Here's what I’ve gathered from a most-delightful one-hour chat. 1. Where was Flight 305 when the pressure bump occurred? - “I really don’t know, exactly.” - Bill said that Flight 305 didn’t have the capacity to determine the exact longitude and latitude, and only the Air-Traffic Controllers would have been able to do that. - “I told them to mark it on their ‘shrimp boats’ (radar screens) when the pressure bump occurred.” - “We had the freedom to move outside of Victor-23.” - The wind was a factor. Bill said the wind blew them to the east, outside of the V-23 boundaries. “How far? Eh….nothing dramatic, maybe a couple miles.” - Bill does not know if Flt. 305 was east of Portland when it passed by the city, or west, or even if they flew over the city. - Bill does not know if they were over the Washougal watershed area; in fact, he sounded a little hazy about the importance of the Washougal in terms of assessing the find at Tena’s Bar. - Bill is convinced that Cooper jumped at the time of the pressure bump. - Could Flt 305 have been 10-15 miles east of V-23, and thus over the Washougal? “I don’t think it’s impossible.” 2. Who did what: - Bill and Scotty were swapping legs of the flight throughout the day. Bill flew into Portland, and Capt. Scott flew to Sea-Tac and was at the controls when Florence Schaffner handed him the skyjacking note. Scotty was momentarily distracted and Bill took over communications, dealing with Cooper, radio transmissions, ATCs, NWO, etc. while Scotty could concentrative on flying into Sea-Tac. - “I passed all the decisions through Scotty, although I often gave him multiple choices. We flew using the ‘fail-safe crew concept,’” which is NWO’s standard op procedure, a consensus-based process of command. - In Seattle they switched again, and Bill flew the plane from Sea-Tac to Reno. - Paul Sodherlund, NWO ops officer and flight captain, was in constant contact with 305 during the skyjacking. - It is my understanding that Bill said Sodherlund drew the rectangular map of probable Cooper landing sites that formed the basis of the FBI’s ground search in the spring of 1972. - However, “There is a lot of speculation where Cooper landed. It remains an enigma.” 3. Cooper: - “He knew something about the airplane,” Bill said, based on Cooper’s asking for a 15-degree setting on the wing flaps. “There is a specific 15-degree setting on 727s, and there isn’t one on any other plane- not the 747s,” etc. - Bill’s tone of voice changes markedly when discussing DB Cooper in personal terms. Stern, almost angrily – more like a soldier discussing combat, and Bill easily uses the metaphor of war. “He threatened to kill us. I have no respect for the man, and he had none for us.” - Bill wanted to fly over the ocean and re-fuel at San Francisco, LAX or San Diego. “I was thinking: Let’s see how long he can hold his breath with 22 pounds of 20s tied around his waist.” - Bill flew V-23 because Cooper strongly refused a refueling stop in those California cities, saying “They’re too busy.” - Cooper’s paper bag: “What was inside we really don’t know.” 4. Reno - “When we landed at Reno, everything we saw, behind every sagebrush and tree, was a guy in a suit with a dog. As soon as we came to a stop we were surrounded. Every police officer in five states must have been there.” - From what Bill said it sounds like the plane filled quickly with a lot of law enforcement. It sounded crowded. - The parachutes were the last to arrive at Sea-Tac, and Cooper called for crew food, which sat uneaten on the front seat of first-class, the entire flight to Reno. According to Bill, the FBI entered the plane with dogs and the first thing the animals did was devour the food. - Bill did not see Cooper’s tie when he was getting off the plane. “All I remember vaguely seeing were shrouds and a canopy lying around.” - Bill and the crew assumed Cooper was not on board when they landed at Reno because they called back on the PA insisting that he prepare for landing, specifically insisting that he secure the stairs, and they warned him that they might not be able to take off after re-fueling because the stairs might get damaged. No response from Cooper. - “Sparks flew when we landed.” - Bill and Ralph H. discussed the possibilities of accomplices for Cooper. Bill is convinced that Cooper acted alone, and died in the jump. 5. Tina - “She did a tremendous job, sitting next to him for all those hours.” - Bill, Scotty and Harold “Andy” Anderson, the flight engineer, bought a bottle of Chanel No. 5 as a ‘thank you’ gift for Tina for her exemplary work and demeanor. Bill wrote on the note, “Every time you use a drop, remember there were three guys sitting in front of you in the cockpit who survived that night because of what you did.” - Bill worked extensively with Richard Tosaw. Tosaw met with Tina, but it was a one-sided conversation. Regarding her need to talk about Nov. 24, 1971, Bill said: “It was like Tina took a white board and wiped it clean.” 6. FBI - Bill had “some differences” with the FBI regarding the re-fueling trucks. No details given.

Not a peep from TK. Wish I knew what he was up to. Welcome back! 377 Quote I emailed Tom Kaye this week and he is currently digging bones in Wyoming. He says the citizen sleuth thing has gone "black," and that he is not issuing any individualized reports. I assume that means things are quiet. Nevertheless, he did say "When we have news, everyone will know about it."

We had started to discuss Mayfield in the other thread - IIRC Awsee (Brenda) was the protagonist, but certain elements basically ran her out of town. There is a conspiracy theory on another site that reckons H "owed" him and that his alibi is substantively provided by H, i.e. that was he was Cooper and H covered for him. I am not sure I buy this, for the same reasons that I generally don't buy conspiracies (secrets come out) but also I am not aware of anything in H's background that would point to him being a "bad cop". I admit though I have not done an awful lot of research into this. I agree with 377 that he is still a "person of interest" and certainly I think a far better candidate than Weber. I'd love to know exactly what all the other stuff was that Ckret referred to in eliminating him as a suspect. Bruce, are you sure he is "scared" of you, or are you reading into that the same stuff Jo does when (in her opinion and her opinion only) Gerorger "reacts" to certain evidence? If I was Mayfield, given the background, I probably wouldn't be interested in talking to any reporters any more no matter who they were or what their angle was. To my ear Orange, there was an element of fear. That said, there was also much disinterest, even distain. But he clearly was in a rush to disconnect from me. In the few seconds I had with Ted, I tried to assure him I was not interested in grilling him on being DB Cooper, but rather hear about his activities with the FBI. I don't know if he completely understood what I wanted to talk about. Frankly, I was surprised by his reaction. In the YouTube videos I've seen of him he comes across as a tough guy, a fella that does things his way, someone with bravado. That persona was completely missing during the few seconds we spoke on the phone.

I agree about the phone call not ruling him out Bruce, but as you point out, the composite description is not a good match to Mayfield. I wonder if Tina or Flo or the ticket agent were ever shown photos of Teddy M? In my experience in criminal law you would not believe how inaccurate some drawings and witness descriptions were. Ted M was a MAJOR risk taker, with his own life and unfortunately also with the lives of skydiving students. Still a person of interest in my book. 377 I agree, 377. He is still a major person of interest to me, also. Interesting also that you should mention the variation factor in sketches from eye witness. I just had the feeling today that the composite sketches of DBC that I have been looking at do not look like a man who stands six feet or taller, and is only 170 pounds. The facial/upper torso components of the sketch suggest a smaller, heavier man.

Mayfield is an interesting guy, Three-Seven-Seven. I haven't read the Meyers posts, but I will. Thanks, Georger, for spelling out the dates. I find Mayfield interesting because Ralph writes in Norjak that Mayfield was of 'invaluable help" in the FBI's investigation. (Or words to that effect.) I'd sure like to know what that help was. In addition, I'd like to hear from Ralph directly what his relationship with Mayfield is. I read, and forget at the moment exactly where, that Ralph and Mayfield had a negative run-in at Aurora State Airport prior to Nov. 24, 1971. It apparently had to do with unprofessional behavior by Mayfield concerning planes and jumpers. Now, how does a guy like that become an asset to the FBI? Are G-men more comfortable with felons than they are with pesky journalists? Yes, we're certainly a lot more dangerous…so I understand the concern. I called Mayfield to ask him about his role with the FBI and he hung up on me. I took the risk of totally alienating him and called him right back. He hung up again, but not before saying: "I always get in trouble when I talk about this." As for the phone call to Ralph 90 minutes after the jump, I don't consider that any kind of alibi, even though Ralph has said it holds water for him. One reason is that the Gossett and Dayton scenarios certainly portray a way where a phone booth could be reached well before the 1.5 hour mark. That's not to say Gossett or Dayton are DB Cooper, or that Danny landed in Oregon, only that their scenario shows how it is possible. More compelling evidence is that Mayfield was much younger than eye witnesses pegged Cooper to be, and is much shorter. But, there is something about Teddy that I find intriguing. From what I’ve read about Ted E Mayfield, why is a guy who has caused the deaths of several parachuting students, is legally banned from the skydiving industry and a convicted plane thief, and from his YouTube videos when he faced his negligent homicide charges quite confident and pugnacious, why the heck is he afraid of me? Also, why does Mr. Meyers decline to respond to all outreach from me? He can't even engage a two-minute professional courtesy call? Bad manners, at the very least, bro', if you're reading. But now that I know he has posted here, I'll try a PM. It’s all a lot of “I ain’t talking to you” about a guy who didn’t have nuttin’ to do with nuttin’.

I love it. Jerry, tell us more about Richard McCoy, please. How did you know him? Did you keep in touch after Vietnam? How did people take his strong religious views? How about his exceptional bravery - near reckless - rescuing ARVN soldiers. What did his peers and superiors think of such actions? Any idea why his post-jump plans were so poorly formed? Any idea on how he switched from being the Number One candidate for the Utah State Patrol one minute, to abducting law enforcement officers the next to make his getaway from US Marshals? What a small world. Another Cooper Quirk!

Quote*** From all we can tell, Cooper had no major disguise. Whoever Cooper was, he made a safe bet that his acquaintances would not ID him from the sketches that he knew would be prepared from witness descriptions. That is a clue and to me it says he was not a local, and perhaps was even foreign domiciled. We don't talk much about the lack of a disguise, but it is a major issue and tells us something. Either Cooper didn't care if he was later ID'd or he did care but knew that the chances were very low. What did he GAIN by having no disguise? I mean why not use one? Quote Regarding disguises, it is my understanding that: 1. Galen Cook, on his Coast-to-Coast radio appearances, if I remember correctly, said that Florence Schaffner told him that she thought DB Cooper was wearing make-up. I remember him saying that Schaffner told him that “a woman notices those kinds of things.” 2. In his book, Ralph H. says that early on in the investigation that he was very concerned Cooper wore make-up or a disguise. He never followed up on this point in the book, though, as far as I remember. 3. Russ Calame states that McCoy clearly had lots of make-up on, supposedly to make himself appear more Latino or olive-toned. Russ, thought, and still does I believe, that DB Cooper had make-up on and that McCoy was improving upon his "first" skyjacking, namely Flight 305.

Gosset is a real person and interesting. He is somebody Bruce could learn from. Gosset definately had the skills, the mindset (maybe) - he's almost over qualified. Quote Enough with the personal slurs, Georger. I am not happy with your attitude. Bruce

Quote DZ, Occam’s Razor, reply, May 28, 2009 Honestly, 377, what does Occam say for all the red flags from the Cooper crew? 1. Why did Barb confess? Why did Duane and Gossett? Or are they all lying as Georger claims despite being believed by reasonable people. 2. Why did McCoy go to Las Vegas on two mysterious trips? Why did he start taking skydiving lessons in October, 1971? That suggests he was no Cooper copycat. Why was he hospitalized for a psychiatric episode in that same time period, 1971, and diagnosed with stress-related symptoms stemming from his service in Viet Nam, but was discharged within days and returned to his normal, highly-pressured life (heavy college course work, a job, two kids, troubled marriage)? Why did he have absolutely no game plan for stashing the money?

Whose facts would you like me to write about, Georger? Ron and Pat Forman are reputable people. I've talked with plenty of folks who know them and consider them honest. I believe they are telling the truth when they say Barb Dayton told them she was DB Cooper. Do you truly believe the Formans are lying? What are your facts that back-up that charge? Galen Cook is a reputable guy, and fun to talk with, too. Do you think he is lying that Gossett family members say William confessed to being DB Cooper, and that he induced an impostor to pose on Coast-to-Coast radio as Gossett's son and claim he heard his father confess? Jo Weber may play loose with facts and consistency, true, but do you really believe she is lying about Duane's confession? Ralph Himmelsbach and Doug Pasternak believed her once upon a time, and that's good enough for me until proven otherwise. Further, are you angry at me for believing them? Is that why you are provocative and hostile in a veiled kind-of-way? Why don't you just say exactly what's on your mind relative to the material presented, Georger, and refrain from dis-ing me as a short-hand way of blowing the whole thing off. Personally, I don't like it, and I ask for better from you. I think my posts deserve better from you. Everything I write is well-considered and well-intensioned. Whether you agree with any of it is secondary. What I write is presented in a respectful manner, and I expect the same in return, sir.