BruceSmith

Actually, Jo, McNeil is one of the safest prisons I can imagine. It was a special facility for rapists and other sex offenders, and when I went to visitors day it seemed like a very mellow place. In fact, the visiting area was very large - about the size of a high school cafeteria - and it was packed with families, kids, and inmates. It was surprisingly joyous. My sense was that the offenders are not violent guys per se, just guys who have a weakness for violent sex. Now, Walla Walla, where "Jake" came from on November 24, 1971 to be a transporter, now that is a doozy of a violent place. When I was a visitor I was one of about six visitors and their inmates. A radical difference from McNeil. BTW: McNeil has a nice boat ride over to the facility, and it's free. I love to see my tax dollars at work.

Goodnight, Jo. Li la tov, as they say in Brooklyn (and elsewhere).

You may be quite fortunate, TSS, as a find the overcoming of the fading of my passions is one of the greatest challenges of my life. But it does provide the impetus to dig a little deeper in some areas than I would otherwise, such as the new physics or finding new ways to put G-1's tootsies to the fire. Speaking of which, I seem to be able to put that man into a huge tizzy without even trying - it reminds me of being a teenager and my mother back in the old days....

Looks like it, Mrs. Cooper. Congratulations. I have one teensy-weensy question: Since Duane knew: 1. Stan Gilliam 2. Lee Harvey Oswald 3. The guy who shot ML King 4. Sheridan Peterson 5. Mel Wilson 6. Paperlegs Peterson why did Duane say he was Cooper's ground man?

Sandy is on Facebook as Sandy Scott. 377 T-S-S, the good captain says he has now abandoned the sport of skydiving because it became "mundane." Sounds like Barb Dayton. Do you ever ponder how come you still get jazzed after all your decades of floating to earth with just a fancy bed sheet above you?

No AMEN because it violates a basic rule of aviation safety to have two words meaning different things that sound nearly the same. 377 Fair enough, T-S-S, but now what do we do? Some of us are squibbing, while others are squidding. My spell checker awaits.

45,000 degrees Fahrenheit is pretty damn hot. Roughly, that is TEN times the temperature of the surface of the sun, (or the photosphere of the sun more or less.) That kind of superheating can cause a meteor to explode with extreme force and release massive amounts of energy. One of the few witnesses to Tunguska said he was thrown off his chair on his porch and his shirt got so hot he thought it was on fire. He was forty miles away. Well...it was either a meteor or the aliens were doing nuclear testing again.

That was the leading theory for decades, but is not longer supported by the evidence. You are correct, mini-Tunguskas have been reported all over the planet, and the Big Question remains - what are they? The next big one after Tunguska was in Jordan, just a few years ago. I hadn't heard about the Seattle one.

But Robert, I am also working on Bi-Location, so I can comfortably stay on my side of the fence AND also be on your side of the fence at the same time so that I can drink 377's wine. I wouldn't want to miss that just because of a few scientific quibbles....

Yes, Robert, the Tunguska event wasn't investigated for many years due to WWI and it's extreme remoteness. The "world" didn't know about it until many years after the occurrence. Nevertheless, many things can be determined about the event. You have mentioned some of the high points, but the latest that I have read indicates that smaller, localized explosions occurred after the central Big One. I think there is general concurrence that Tunguska was not a hit by a meteor, either a direct hit or an exploding meteor that blew apart just above the surface of the earth. I think even the National Geographic is claiming that, at this point. No meteors or pieces have ever been found, anywhere. So, what was it? Mirror Matter? Anti-Matter? Dark Matter gettin' funky for unknown reasons? I don't know, but "conventional" explanations do not seem to fit the bill. As for anti-gravity. I can send you my magazine article on the subject, which goes into detail on the science and applications. In the meantime, NASA is spending the Big Bucks on Breakthrough Physics Propulsion systems to get its payloads into space at a cheaper cost fuel-wise. Podkletnov's rotating superconductors were thought to be a way to shed about 5% of the weight of an Atlas V, but it didn't work out. Eugene is now said to be working up the road at Boeing, in Renton, at the secret lab there, etc., on developing ways to lighten the effective weight of aircraft. Lighter airplanes mean less fuel, further range, bigger payloads, more bombs, etc. The B-2 is widely speculated to be using electrostatic, anti-gravitic enhancements to fly, such as polarizing the electrical environment of the skin of the craft so that it flies through an ionized air faster, thus needing a smaller engine and being able to fly further. I have seen many reports that say the B-2 can not fly at the altitude and range with the bomb load it has with the engine as it is spec'd in public news releases. B-2 pilots have been queried on the subject and they say they know nothing, so I believe that the electrostatic qualities of the craft are hard-wired into the craft and the pilots don't have to know about it to fly the plane. Here's how one electrostatic system may work: Electrically charge the plane so that it is polarized. Let's say the front is negatively charged and the aft portion is positive. Then install an energizing device so that the air around the plane, especially in front, is similarly energized, but make the air in front of the plane positive. Hence. the positively charged air particles will rush faster towards the negatively charged skin of the aircraft, thus providing "free" thrust. NASA's Deep Space I vehicle uses this exact technology to achieve impressive results. As for Anti-Matter, and building an anti-matter fuel tank, I don't have a clue. I suspect the aircraft of the future will have containment field capacities, such as utilizing plasma fields and rotating electromagnetic fields to contain hotsy-totsy stuff, as the Helicity Injected Torus II at the UW in Seattle demonstrates so ably. I wrote about this technology in NEXUS magazine in October 2003, and was invited to STAIF in 2004 to present my paper. If you'd like a copy, I'd be happy to send one to you.

For reasons that are not clear to me at all, I have begun thinking about skydiving - not me personally, but who are the people who actually sky dive. Three-Seven-Seven is about to celebrate his 50th Anniversary, and I can not fathom getting any joy out of cheating death, especially when my therapist works so hard to keep me, well, not a "danger to myself or others." For instance - - Did Robin Williams skydive? - Does Woody Allen skydive? If so, does he take his wife/daughter with him? - Do psychotherapists skydive? If so, are they also on medication? - Do skydivers take medications as prescribed, or do they withhold the final word on dose and type of pharmaceuticals that they ingest?

I have a proposal on parachute lexicography. I say that "squibbing" is the dynamic that a parachute displays when it deploys, such as "squidding" like a squid or snapping open in a more muscular, explosive fashion. Hence, old canopies can squib like stained-glass church windows - squidding like they are made of ethereal rip-stop squid fins, but rectangular speed jobs squib like bricks until landing, when they are as gentle as a mother's kiss. Can I get an "AMEN" from all you jumpers out there?

Yes, well, what is the evidence? I have read in multiple places that there is no evidence, at least of a meteorological impact. There are no bits and pieces of meteors. Plus, the entirety of the blast area indicates that there were multiple blasts, and all of them were aerial in nature. Nothing had direct contact with the ground except the blast waves and heat, which was extreme - searing heat 70 miles away. That's pretty hotsy-totsy.

Good one Bruce. Glad we can have some laughs about all of this stuff. BTW Tunguska was, IMO, just a meteor. Not a UFO, not antimatter. I'd greatly prefer an unconventional explanation for the incredible deconstruction but the evidence just doesn't support it 377 I've heard a little about those quantum vacuum thrust drivers. I'm a little skeptical, too, but the reports are intriguing. I spent quite a bit of time researching anti-gravity technology back in the day. Much of it was a dead-end, but some stuff was a real eye-opener, such as the "lifters." I also enjoyed talking to some of the researchers, such as Eugene Podkletnov in Finland and his rotating superconductors. Along those lines, I highly recommend Nick Cook's book: The Hunt for Zero Point - Inside the Classified World of Antigravity Technology. Nick is the aviation editor for Jane's Defence Weekly, and is nobody's fool. Very well-written and well-researched.

Yes, folks, an apology. I know they are rare here at the DZ, but I need to offer one: I feel I have muddied the waters about deploying off the aft stairs. I have called it "squibbing," but the proper term may be "squidding." I apologize. Three-Seven-Seven has corrected me on this mistake several times already in my DB Cooper tutorial program, but I still seem to be making the error. Further, are others making the same mistake? I see that Robert-Ninety-Nine and Miss Amazona are also talking about squibbing. So, are there two different types of parachute dynamics - squibbing and squidding? Mark!! Help..... Or is this a manifestation of the phenomenon known as "Mirror Matter?" Supersymmetry requires all matter to be balanced, as "b's" balance "d's," hence the development of the notion of mirror matter to compliment ordinary matter. The interaction of Mirror Matter with ordinary matter is hypothesized for causing the Tunguska explosion of 1906 in Siberia. I wrote about it in my book on consciousness, soon to be posted at the Mountain News and available on Kindle via Amazon (where else, Jeanne!) .

Three-Seven-Seven, I have never thought you were brainwashed, only conditioned by the social and cultural practices of our day. But, if you get to 14K, let me know asap. The only other folks I know who are levitating these days are the frog-hopping "Yogic Flyers" at the Maharishi's place down the street from G-1, aka, "He Whose Name Can Not Be Mentioned." Speaking of gravity, isn't this kerfuffle about parachute strength, jet speeds, etc a bit misplaced? Isn't gravity the trump card here? Isn't the real issue how fast DB Cooper was moving through space (and time) when he deployed his parachute? Presumably, his relative motion through space was established initially by the speed of the jet (Einstein has proven that DB Cooper would also be moving at 225 mph when he exited), but his speed thereafter would be diminished by the forces of friction, air turbulence, and his eventual transition to terminal velocity. Hence, DB Cooper was traveling about 110 mph once gravity took over, unless he was in a tuck and zooming to the ground like Robb Heady, who estimates that he was traveling about 200 mph when he pulled at 1,000 feet above the ground.

Miss Amazona, I know this is the prevailing view of most folks, but I'm working (with others) on another angle - immortality through a robust application of focused thought to create a new reality. I'm writing about it at the Mountain News. It's called The New Physics, and my book is an Introduction to the Science of Consciousness. Yes, it's a tad controversial, and not only is 377 praying for my soul, but Snowmman has made many posts, generally along the lines that I go back to kolluge and study some of dat real physics stuff. Now, here's the tie-in to Cooper - Along the way to immortality, we can transcend time and space and revisit Flight 305 on November 24, 1971. Find out what really happened. I'll bring a thermometer and see exactly how cold it's on the stairs, if you catch my drift.

Speaking of bad days, this is the third time I have typed this post, as my Google Chrome is hanging up on the Slacker AOL music site. So much for listening to Jake Shimabukuro and the charming sounds of Hawaii as I write about wind chills and trying to bust Robert-Ninety-Nine's cajones, but in a nice way. Ahem. Wind Chill: There are a couple of problems with the prevailing notions from LE and R-99 about how nippy it was on the stairs. First, many skydivers here, and certainly those who spoke at length in Tacoma last November, clearly indicate that there is minimal wind at the bottom of a 727 staircase because the stairs are blocking the slipstream. Secondly, Robb Heady reports that he experienced no adverse chilling effects when he jumped at 12,000 feet at 300 mph. He was dressed similarly to Cooper, wearing only a fishing vest and a nylon windbreaker. Yes, it wasn't November in the Cascades, but it was late spring over the Sierras. If he handled 300 mph, why couldn't DB handle 200 mph, or 225 as R99 states. Lastly, everyone is in agreement that it was raining at 10,000 feet when Danny Boy jumped into the Big Unknown, which raises the Big Question: How can it rain in conditions of wind chill at 40 degrees below zero - that's 72 degrees below freezing. Yes, I know that Georger isn't here and reports are that he is not coming back, but this is the exact type of physics question that only he seems to be able to answer - how does rain not freeze into ice under those kinds of conditions, and if rain is affected in such a peculiar fashion wouldn't Danny's tootsies and fingertips be secured by the same process? Chutes: Bobby, I think it is fair to assume that the FBI doc on parachutes is flawed. Hence, it is most likely that DB Cooper used a 26-foot civilian canopy since Norman Hayden sent two identical ones to Sea-Tac. I think it is incorrect to think he used an NB-8, NB-6 or a C-9. I am in agreement with Robert-Ninety-Nine on that. However, what to make of a civilian 26-footer in 1971? Can one get you to the ground safely with an exit in excess of 200 mph? The answer seems to be a Big Yes. Again, I cite Robb Heady: Robb says that he made it to the ground with a 26-foot civilian canopy that was his reserve chute fashioned around his waist. So, if Robb's 26-footer could make it at 300 mph, why not Coop at 200? As Robert Ninety-Nine has said so eloquently, the classic: stick to the facts. So Ninety-Nine, which facts do you like? Some seem to be preferable over others, wouldn't you say? I know I definitely prefer mine over yours. You?

I agree, Robert, that this incident is very illustrative of the dynamics of jumping with an asymmetrical load. But I wonder if there are other factors involved. Fear? Panic? etc. Don't most combat paratroopers jump with varying degrees of asymmetry? Weapons, radios, food, ammunition? How do you access a total newbie who has never parachuted before jumping with a trombone case - and making it successfully to the ground, such as McNally? I think there is more to assess here, and this issue seems to be greatly affected by "cultural goggles" as Sluggo puts it - if you want Cooper alive, he made it like all the others. If you want him dead, he was a no-pull because of inexperience, cold, panic, etc, and everybody else is dismissed as luckier, smarter, warmer, more experienced, etc.

Robert, what do you think of Earl Cossey's initial assessment that Cooper made it, and in fact anyone with basic parachuting skills could have made a successful jump. Also, Geoffrey Gray, in his memorial pieces on Coss after his death, says that Coss was going back to his original view after telling the world for 40 years that Cooper cratered. Additionally, what's your take on the successful landing of all the copy cats who jumped? 1. Robb Heady 2. Richard LaPoint 3. Martin McNally 4. Richard McCoy If Cooper didn't make it and these guys did, then how come? Why was Cooper different? What made Cooper unsuccessful? After all, McNally didn't even know how to put on a parachute. Dumb luck? Bad luck? Unforeseen difficulties? It begs the question: are the LE who say Cooper didn't make it lying, misinformed, spinning the story for an unknown agenda, or establishing their perspective on facts that are not public at this time? Yes, Larry Carr said repeatedly that Cooper most likely tumbled hopelessly and died as a panicked no-pull. But what did he base that speculation upon? Cossey's assessment from 1972-2012? How come Larry never seemed to include other possibilities, such as those so ably presented by 377 in Portland in 2011? I get the sense from your posts that your basic position is: if the cops say it's true, then it's true. Bruce, There are a number of factors that must be considered in accessing the problems that Cooper would have encountered in the jump. First the weather. The airliner was at 10,000 feet above sea level and also ABOVE an overcast (or an under cast if you prefer). In addition there were reported to be two or three cloud layers below the overcast including at least one that was described as "broken", which is close to being another solid layer. There is no information as to clouds above the airliner which would further complicate the problem. Cooper could not have seen the ground to provide any information as to his body position during the free fall. That is, he could not stabilize and would have tumbled. Adding to the tumbling problem is how he tied the money bag to himself. If he tied it on the side of his body, it would have created an asymmetrical type of tumbling which would have been even more difficult to recover from. The wind chill factor during Cooper's time on the steps and first few seconds of free fall would be around 35 to 40 degrees BELOW zero. Cooper was only lightly dressed, even if he had on thermal underwear, and this low temperature would have definitely impacted him adversely. Taking all of the above factors together, Cooper would have been thoroughly chilled even before he stepped off the stairs. He would have started tumbling immediately as he went through the very turbulent jet wash behind the airliner, he did not have any means to determine his body attitude to stop the tumbling, and things went downhill both figuratively and literally from that point. It is possible that he was completely disoriented, including inability to accurately estimate time passage, within 10-15 seconds after leaving the stairs. In all probability, Cooper was on the ground and dead within 40-45 seconds after separating from the stairs. One of the cable TV networks had a program several years ago on the military's HALO parachute training program in southwest Arizona. The program takes experienced military parachutists and teaches them to do delayed drops. One particular jump in that program is illustrative of the above. It was a completely clear day, no clouds and plenty of sunshine. The trainees had already made a number of free fall jumps and this was their first one with a military belly pack. The student in question and an instructor jumped together. The student was unable to stabilize himself even with the instructor grabbing him to help him stabilize. The student tumbled so violently that I think the instructor got kicked in the head. Finally, the instructor had to back away from the guy and open his own chute. The student eventually did get a chute open and landed safely. But he was booted out of the program the same day. And remember that this jump was made under ideal conditions by a trained parachutist with free fall experience and assisted by an instructor. He just couldn't handle the change in aerodynamics from the added belly pack. My conclusion that Cooper died in the jump is based on my own knowledge and experience in several branches of aviation including parachuting. I think the LE people who agree with this know what they are talking about. There are plenty of LE people with sky-diving experience. In my opinion, if Cooper had been wearing only a single emergency parachute with no money bag, etc., and with an automatic opener, he would probably have survived. As Farflung repeatedly pointed out, those things do get the job done. To the best of my knowledge, the other jumpers you mentioned jumped under quite good weather conditions. And some of them had sky-diving experience. I realize that there are plenty of sky-divers who feel they could have made the Cooper jump successfully using just an umbrella and while carrying a grand piano. Those claims are just beer talk. Robert99 Yes, Robert, you have restated most of the LE talking points that are used to speculate that Cooper died in his jump. You do have some factual errors, though. The wind chill factor at the doorway was nil. There was no wind, as many skydivers have pointed out here and elsewhere. Yes, the blast wall a couple seconds out is severe, as Rob Heady has described. But he survived his tumble, and at night. Yes, he had clear skies, so he had a horizon, but he was over wilderness. Plus, when he jumped his 727 was flying at least 300 mph and might have been going faster (350 mph?), so a severe tumble is not unexpected. Whereas Cooper was going 200 mph. As I have pointed out numerous times, LaPoint successfully made it to the ground in the snow, in January, in Colorado, wearing nothing more than a shirt and slacks. So, weather conditions per se are not sufficient in my view, to say that Cooper didn't make it. As for asymmetrical loads, that is a more complex factor to assess. 377 says he has jumped with a comparable load of radios on his leg as Cooper, but it was a tricky affair. McNally certainly had a wildly asymmetrical load as he was carrying a money bag and a machine gun in a trombone case. He lost both on the way down, but he was okay. Yes, his jump was in the warmer temps of summer. You say Cooper tumbled. Why do you say that? You don't think Cooper pulled on the stairs? Why not?

Robert, what do you think of Earl Cossey's initial assessment that Cooper made it, and in fact anyone with basic parachuting skills could have made a successful jump. Also, Geoffrey Gray, in his memorial pieces on Coss after his death, says that Coss was going back to his original view after telling the world for 40 years that Cooper cratered. Additionally, what's your take on the successful landing of all the copy cats who jumped? 1. Robb Heady 2. Richard LaPoint 3. Martin McNally 4. Richard McCoy If Cooper didn't make it and these guys did, then how come? Why was Cooper different? What made Cooper unsuccessful? After all, McNally didn't even know how to put on a parachute. Dumb luck? Bad luck? Unforeseen difficulties? It begs the question: are the LE who say Cooper didn't make it lying, misinformed, spinning the story for an unknown agenda, or establishing their perspective on facts that are not public at this time? Yes, Larry Carr said repeatedly that Cooper most likely tumbled hopelessly and died as a panicked no-pull. But what did he base that speculation upon? Cossey's assessment from 1972-2012? How come Larry never seemed to include other possibilities, such as those so ably presented by 377 in Portland in 2011? I get the sense from your posts that your basic position is: if the cops say it's true, then it's true.

I wish you well, Duane2, in your journeys to come. Thanks for stopping by for a spell at the DB-Cooper-DZ-Biker-Bar-and-Grill. Don't be a stranger - after all ya gotta find out who's the latest to get grilled or barred. Soon it'll feel like family.....

My name is Cousin Brucie, and I approve of Jeanne Cameron!

Now you're talkin'. Even a Torah reading would be cool. Or Revrun JW. could lead a seance where DB could communicate with us from the Big Beyond. Set the story straight, so to speak....

A good point, and here's my rebuttal: Geoffrey Gray has shown repeatedly in his writings that Kenny invited run-away boys to stay in his home for extended periods of time. During their stay he took them to dinner in restaurants and gave them exotic gifts from the Orient. If that is not "troubling" behavior, then what is it? I have repeatedly asked you to describe it in terms that you might find more suitable, but all I've ever heard from you was that Kenny was a nice guy who was trying to help some kids. Sorry, Bobby, but that is too naive for me to consider. Let me ask you this: If your son ran away from you, would you be comfortable if they spent some time with a guy like Kenny and got treated to the good life? Where would you draw the line? You'd be okay with Kenny, but how about Bernie? How about me? How about Galen, or Georger, or Josie? Also for child molesters, I agree most are not gay. In fact, the greatest danger of molestation is from men who are known and trusted by the family - parish priests, neighbors, fathers, uncles, brothers, Penn State coaches, etc.