BruceSmith

Now we are getting somewhere. Excellent analysis, Georger. Thank you.

Why don't you want us to answer, Planet Man?

Dannie Ten-Ten, I think we best be prepared to take other steps to learn the truth of Kenny C and DB Cooper. I seriously doubt that Bernie Geestman will ever tell us the truth. BTW: How come you haven't answered my questions to you about the money find at Tina Bar?

My thoughts exactly. The critical question is what you owe to Kenny Christensen. Do you owe him the truth? His family wants him to be the skyjacker, and you, too, it appears. But what if Kenny is not DB Cooper? Have you participated in a grand deceit? A Big Lie? What of Kenny's reputation and feelings of folks who truly cared and loved Kenny. Clearly, Lyle Christensen is not one of those people. For him, Kenny is simply a stage prop, or a ticket to Hollywood. What is Kenny to you as a person? More essential, what does the truth mean to you? Are you truly committed to seeking the truth? I think not. If you were, you'd be out busting your ass to find out why two or three men didn't make it to Thanksgiving dinner at Bernie's place 42 years ago. Saying that such work is the domain of the FBI is utter crap. They are the last people in the world who care about the truth, or haven't you realized that, yet? LE is not about truth seeking primarily. Rather it is about image and politics, promotions and successful prosecutions. Remember that guy Cossey? 'nough said. Half the agents I know in the FBI are well-dressed trigger-pullers who love killing. Ask the families of the dead who died needlessly when FBI agents chose a shoot-out rather than a negotiated ending to a skyjacking, such as 58 November. There, they had to pay the families for reckless killings of innocent people. Geez, the feds even blew away a guy in Oregon while Dorwin was talking to the skyjacker on a phone and negotiating a surrender. The G-men didn't even trust one of their own. No wonder they don't want to talk with me, or show up at Cooper symposiums. But then, you don't either. That doesn't say much for your committment to this case, does it Bobby.

Okay, Bob, I'll call Mac. What his number?

What I've read is that the Palmer report claims the money was found above the dredge spoil layer. I also heard Galen state emphatically that the money didn't arrive until shortly before discovery. Plus, this is the scenario I've heard Tom Kaye espouse. Does this satisfy your question, G? The bigger question, G, is what did the FBI do after the Tina Bar money find? Can you speak to that? What evidentiary process did the money find trigger? Dorwin indicated that the feds didn't do too much, and were basically passive - only following up on leads when they came it. Do you know if any agents went looking for more money? Plus, do you know why there are no shards up in Seattle currently? Or how the Seattle FO learned of the money find back in 1980?

Tell me Dannie Ten-Ten, what do you think of my hypothesis that I posted here months ago about the money find at Tina Bar and the lack of evidence retrieval in the Ariel-Amboy area? Specifically, I wondered if the announcement by the FBI that the drop zone was over Ariel was an intentional act by the FBI to mislead the public and the media, and send them on a wild-goose chase away from the real drop zone further east and at higher elevation. I say this because the FBI agent Gary Tallis told me that he was an FBI spotter on helicopters for two weeks after the skyjacking in that eastern area, which was long after the ground search in Ariel was suspended. Plus, the guy who was leading the ground search in Ariel-Amboy told me that they only searched about five percent of the area, leaving most of it untouched until the feds came back five months later with the 200 soldiers from Ft Lewis. Why did they wait so long when there was no snow on the ground in Ariel? Further, there are compelling reasons to suspect that the money found at Tina Bar was planted there about 12-18 months before discovery in Feb 1980; ie: Palmer report. Was the money placed there by the FBI who found it up on the slopes of the Cascades, and they wanted to divert attention away from whatever took place there after the skyjacking, keeping pesky guys like you and me away from nosing around the events of early December 1971 east of Ariel? Perhaps the money was planted at Tina Bar to create exactly what has happened - mass confusion among researchers. Certanly the lack of any credible follow-up investigation by the FBI in the Tina Bar area, ie: combing the shoreline for more money, talking to fishermen, etc., suggests that the feds weren't too excited by the find. Sadly, Dannie Ten-Ten, there may be a lot of lying going on in the Norjak investigation. And we haven't touched on Earl Cossy's murder, yet.

Yup. I would add, if anyone here champions a suspect and refuses to conduct reasonable follow-up investigatory work - such as Bobbby does with Bernie - then they better be ready for getting their feet placed to the fire with frequency. Hiding behind the rhetoric that such investigatory work is the job of the FBI is just that: hiding. Not only am I in complete agreement with Dannie Ten-Ten and his/her distain for lies and liars, I also can't stand scaredy cats.

I'm not a 'hero,' and neither am I the FBI. That's their job, not mine. Then shut the fuck up about Geestman and Kenny.

Regarding Dannie Ten-Ten, Bobby B and Bernie, the real issue is why Mr. Blevins avoids investigating Bernie Geestman. Is he too lazy? Too scared? Too frightened thinking he might be in over his head? Wishes Skippy would do it? As we have pointed out to Bobby, if KC is DBC, then Geestman is an ideal candidate for a thorough examination. Blevs says he agrees with us, but then claims it's really the job of the FBI. Why? When did that isssue ever stop a real investigative reporter? Do you think I ever gave a shit if the cops were investigating? Did I stop my investigation of Cossey's murder just because the KCSO detectives got paid to do it? I should wait for LE, and stand on self-righteous ideaology? C'mon, Bobby, get off your ass and do some real work for a change. Don't worry - we know you won't have too much time for posting here, so we'll keep the threasd warm in your absence. Or do it for the kid if not for us. He/she says they really don't like liars - so give him something to believe in, a real hero, Bobby, who can get the truth out of Bernie. Be a hero Bobby....

Yup, t'is true, but I'll take my chances. More importantly, we ought to talk with Dannie Ten Ten and his/her mother/father, first, as the rumor is D-1010 is a minor. Or perhaps Quade ought to contact the parents and discuss appropriate behaviors in public. That said, dropping f-bombs is not unheard of in skydiving circles, if you catch my drift. Afterall, Mrs Cooper was openly calling for my torture and nobody went running to Quade to defend me or the sanctity of the thread. In fact, the mod decided his best move was to ban me for six weeks.

Quade, Please do the human race a service and get the Danielle1010 nutcase out of here. Robert99 Whoa, Robert Nine-Nine, I think we're just observing the therapeutic application of the f-bomb. Yes, it has been liberally applied, but still.... Just sayin'.

But Dannie Ten-Ten, how do you really feel? That was a joke, even though it may not be funny. Seriously though, being lied to is no fun. I just wanted to say that.

When people can't solve a puzzle they resort to conspiracy theories. Blame it on the CIA or Howard Hughes. Hughes was no government favorite. They hounded him mercilessly and forced him to give up control of Hughes Aircraft Company. He spent the last years of his life unsuccessfully trying to stop underground nuclear weapons testing that he feared was poisoning him in his Las Vegas hideaway. All his money and power had no effect. The tests went on. I worked at Hughes and had access to massive records about Hughes. He wasn't as omnipotent as people like to think. He was always battling the govt and seldom won. There was a dark side too. He had very young girls on "movie contracts". Faith Domergue- actress and long time Mistress of Hughes as a teenager until she was 20. 377 Wow. We've got Howard Highes in the picture, now? Yippee. Bradley Collins will be very happy, as he repeatedly claimed in his book that HH was the boss at Northwest Orient and in charge of the airline at the time of the skyjacking. Plus, Brad's dad was not only DB Cooper, but was named John Collins! We've got multiple synchronicities, if that is even possible.

Quade: Is having the discussion be civil the only criteria for trashing this thread? I stop by once or twice a week and the "discussion" is never related to DB Cooper or parachuting. The issues being discussed over the last months have nothing to do with the thread. How about closing the D B Cooper thread completely or banning these characters who do nothing but promote their own agenda, books or ego? Really... Another option is to ignore the people and their posts who disrupt the discussions you would like to have. Yes, I know Bobby and Jo's character assassinations can be tiring, but they are what they are. They're part of Cooper Lore, but they can be irritating and distracting. Do you ever go to Shutter's site? It's calm, but not much news there at the moment. It would appear that most folks prefer the bar fight here. T'is a quandry. Nevertheless, Guru, what would you like to talk about?

I predict you won't be 'in the saddle' very long if you continue with garbage like that. Then you can go back to hanging out with Cooper Royalty at the alternate site, the one nobody sees except OTHER Cooper Royalty. Must be boring for you. Publishers have rejected you, while you rejected all help that was offered, then you aligned yourself with people who do nothing but lie or attack others. In the meantime, you attacked practically everyone you ever interviewed regarding the Cooper case when they didn't give you what you thought you deserved. Now there's no one left to interview and if you found someone they probably wouldn't agree to it anyway because of your previous history. Nice going. True enough. I only saw your post because I was up late watching The Green Berets on AMC, which is definitely more interesting than your latest posts. Yes, but how can we help you prove that KC was DBC?

I think we should look much more closely into this angle, Dannie. I don't think Kenny stole a plane, but what else did he do in life that might have made a lot of money? What kinds of illegal activities could a flight attendent get into by flying to the Orient every two weeks? Smuggling? Money laundering? Drugs? Sex? Bobby doesn't want to look into any of this, but I think the truth may lay in that direction. Plus, it would make a good movie, too. As for how much $512 went in 1971, I was working as a truck driver for $2.15 an hour back then, making $90 a week - but I had to live at home with my parents. Later, I shared a room in a house with a bunch of guys and we got food stamps, so $2.15 an hour was tough. Living off of $512 was pretty rough, and I doubt that Kenny really did it without another source of income. $512 a month would not pay for a car, even though gas was 19 cents a gallon, and you could buy a VW bug for $2-grand, new. I rode a bicycle to work. $512 was "scraping-by" level of money. Even in the boonies like Bonney Lake, WA.

I was just looking at my last few posts and I saw that ten people had already read them. Yikes! What's the matter people? Can't sleep? It's 12;30 AM Pacific Time - I mean how many Cooper sleuths are there in Kazackstan, where it's 2 pm in the afternoon? Anyway, what I'd really like to ask you - do you have any good gossip? Juicy sex stuff? I've been banned from here for a long time and I'm just getting back in the saddle. Trying to catch up, know what I mean? Yeah, I know Quade's a little squimish about who's sleeping with whom, and who's writing about it. I guess that's what PMs are for.

Is anyone from the WSHM still reading these pages? If so, can you help me and Vicki get in touch with Billy M? Can you at least courrier some photographs to Billy so he can get a peek at Mel Wilson for Vicki? Plus, I'd like to show him Don Burnworth's photo. Heck, he can just look at the DBC photo gallery at the Mountain News. In fact, if he wants to stay hidden he can just scan the MN and pass on his comments to you about the various pictures of Cooper suspects - who looks good, who doesn't etc. That's not asking too much, is it? BTW, I gotta tell ya that not answering my phone calls or emails really pisses me off. I answer yours, don't I. C'mon. What's your problem?

Bobby, same question. Suppose we helped you prove that KC was DB, what would you do? More to the point, how can we help? Whadda ya need, bro? What's it gonna take to put KC over the top? Imagine if your quest to prove KC is DB Cooper had the full backing of the DZ, and then went viral on the Internet - wouldn't that make for a great screen play?

So, what would Jesus do? More importantly, what would Orange1 do? 1. Kick me outta da plane anyway she could just to get me the F**K outta da plane, screaming, "This one's for Tina!!!"? 2. Kick me, but only if I had a parachute? 3. Kick me if it was only an NB-8? 4. Kick me only if it was Norm Hayden's Pioneer? 5. She wouldn't kick me, but would refer me to a therapist. 6. Make a landing in the bush where the coke bottle fell a long time ago and tell me, "Yup, the Gods must be crazy." Then, give me a water bottle and a dictionary for Bush People language, and wave good-bye? Like I said, Orange, welcome home. BTW, what's new with you? How's the kid?

Say, Skyjack71, I've got a couple questions for ya. First, are you absolutely convinced that Duane was DB Cooper? If yes, okay. If not, why not? If yes, what's all the hoopla about? You want us to believe you? Accept your statements? Why is our agreement so important? And if we did believe that Duane was DB, then what? What would you do next? Just askin'.

Wow. Secret showings! Now, that's my kind of Cooper Sleuthing Extravaganza. Can I come just for the after-hours elbow-rubbin'? Do I need to apply, or should I just inform the Auburn PD that I plan to attend? Please let me know as my budget this year for bail payments has already been reached. T-Y, Bobby - All the best! If you were serious, you would have emailed me rather than making fun of the whole thing. So I will assume you aren't serious about attending and leave it at that. Welcome back, though...." Thanks, Bobby, for the Howdy! As for personal emails asking for admittance to the secret club house meetings on Cooper, it's not really my style. I'm more on an open-sourced, Crowd-Sourced kind of guy. I give and I get, ya know what I mean? Have you found Billy Mitchell, yet? I hear his family still lives in Auburn. Went To AHS, etc. If you see him, let him know a few people would like to get in touch, like me and Vicki. It seems the WSHM knows exactly where he is, but they have him in some sort of Witness Protection Program. Just what we need in Norjak - more secrets. And scaredy-cats. I mean really, what's got Billy so cranky?

Wow. Secret showings! Now, that's my kind of Cooper Sleuthing Extravaganza. Can I come just for the after-hours elbow-rubbin'? Do I need to apply, or should I just inform the Auburn PD that I plan to attend? Please let me know as my budget this year for bail payments has already been reached. T-Y, Bobby - All the best!

Wow, Orange, welcome home! Yeah, both Jerry T and Galen got screen time on TV. I don't remember how much we talked about it here, as we have been very busy as you can see - back-stabbing, character assassinating, name-calling and such. You were conjured a few months ago when we were discussing different way to torture me. Jo wanted me strung up by my balls until I squealed, while Miss Amazona was smitten with the notion of kicking my ass out the door of an airplane at 14,000 feet. The big issue was, as I recall, whether folks wanted me to be wearing an actual parachute or not - regardless of whether it was an NB-8 or Pioneer. It was further speculated that you might be more in the camp of those who desired me to depart from the plane without a parachute - but that was only speculation, since you've been busy elsewhere, obviously. Regardless, 377 assured everyone that he would be right behind me and perform a rescue in some not yet fully detailed aerial snatch, but he did go on record as he did not want to see a good journalist "bounce." As for Galen and the TV show, I think our conversations centered less on his rowboating activites at Tina Bar and more along the lines if he should join me in the stringing up ceremonies, after which he suggested that I be appointed a Guardian Ad Litem for Mrs Cooper by the State of Florida. As for Jerry T, he was pretty much quiet here despite his Hollywood moments, and only drew attention when he called me to say that everything that Jo has said is "100% bullshit." JT also went on to say that he had spoken to the nurse on duty in 1995 at Duane's health care facility and the nurse said that she only heard Duane mumble something about knowing who DB Cooper was, and never announced that he was Dan Cooper himself, as his lovely widow now claims. Some other DZ News that you might enjoy: After getting placed on vacation here twice - the last time for talking too much sex stuff, such as did Eng really have sex with Marla - Mr Shutter and I teamed up to develop alternative sites to the DZ so that we could discuss issues that matter to us without fear of being tortured (or of being called a murderer, which was another high-point of this thread several months back). The task of getting a high-octane discussion site off the ground fell to Shut, and it's up and running at: http://www.thedbcooperforum.com/ Anyways, good to have you back sittin' with us at the Cooper table.