wolfriverjoe

You have to remember that there was a draft, even in peacetime, in the 50s. Even Elvis was subject to it. So if Cooper was 'fortyish' in 71, that means he was 'twentyish' in 51. And subject to the draft. Either during/in the Korean Conflict or after it as 'just another draftee'.

Do you know why the FBI got so excited about "L D Cooper"? I do. I even know who he is. (not personally) He was not D B Cooper. Mr Blevins - You may have noticed that the site underwent a revamp since the thread was locked. It was fairly recent. One new feature is the ability to ignore particular posters. Simply 'hover' over their profile pic and an info box will appear. "Ignore User" is a choice in that box. It's pretty handy. Also, the idea that the 'dynamite' in the briefcase was rolls of quarters taped together with red electrical tape is really silly. As silly if not more so than the idea that someone (Barb Dayton maybe?) used a staple remover as a trigger device. Color of the quarters is wrong, the tape won't match colors, and the rolls have 'Quarters $10' on them. Anything more than a cursory glance would have by anyone paying any attention and the game would have been over. Road flares (railroad flares were discussed at length) would be a far, far, far better fake. Real dynamite would have been even better. It wasn't all that hard to get back then.

Well, on the plus side, the floods destroying all that stored grains will reduce the surplus. That should put the price up a bit. Sucks rocks to be one of the farmers who lost most or all of last years crop though.

Did you actually read what Barr wrote? Somehow I doubt it. I know Trump didn't. Or at least he didn't understand what it said. And somehow, I don't think Cohen, Flynn & Manafort think it was all a "hoax".

No. I've been around a while, but rounds were pretty much done for sport jumpers, even for reserves, by the time I started. Never heard that term at all.

Fair enough. That actually makes quite a bit of sense. Acrobatic pilots are required by FAR to wear bailout rigs. I can see some 'old school' guys resenting the rule, as Hayden apparently did/does. The concept that he didn't really care much about it, never met the rigger and never saw the canopies or the inside of the rig isn't surprising. There are 'more than a few' current skydivers who have no clue what color their reserve is. And, as long as you clarify what is fact and what is speculation, I'm fine with both. My info is mostly going on memory. I'm not digging back through all 2300 pages of this to find stuff I posted years ago. In fact, my memory on the ripcord location was likely wrong. After a bit of reflection, I think what was really change was not the 'side' the ripcord handle was on, but the location on the main lift web (vertical part of the harness). The phrase 'outboard mod' has popped into my head. IIRC (and I may just be 'more wrong') the handle was moved from the inside of the MLW (pointed inward, toward the sternum) to the outside (pointed towards the arm). The reason of taking it out of reach of a scared student and the two stage pull are correct (I think). Unfortunately, the new format has changed the search function. Either it has degraded quite a bit or it has different parameters (or both). I used to be able to find stuff in the archives quite easily. Now... Not so much.

Interesting. So the Pioneer was a bailout rig, not a sport rig. In a way, that's absolutely hilarious. Cooper demands two back & two chest parachutes, but neither of the back rigs is capable of having the chest reserve attached to it. Apparently nobody (including Cooper) knew enough about the gear to catch this. For the record, I had read the entire first thread, and the second one up to where I started posting. I kept current on it for some time, but gave up after a while due to idiocy. It reached the point where the idiocy and bickering overpowered the actual discussion and I gave up. I would pop back in from time to time, but it never changed. So I probably missed some info, and am operating off of memory on most of this. It's kind of interesting that the Packing Data Card shows Cossey's sig & cert #, yet Hayden claims to have never met him. Also, the repack date on the card is May 21. At that time the repack interval was 120 days (I think). That means the rig was legal to jump until mid September. Even today, the repack interval is 180 days. By Nov 24th, the rig would be 'out of date' and need a fresh I&R to be legal. So the FBI gave Cooper gear that wasn't legal to jump. There's a couple mentions of a 'confidential seal number'. There's nothing 'confidential' about it. It's a matter of public record and is on each seal the rigger uses. Current PDCs have a spot for it, next to the rigger's sig & cert#. Also, the modification to the ripcord on the Navy rig that was used was discussed on here. The location was moved from the right side to the left. This was apparently a 'not uncommon' mod, preferred by jump pilots because it placed the handle out of reach of frightened students sitting next to them. It was also set up as a 'two stage' pull. The handle had to be pulled up and out to get it out of the pocket, then down to pull the pin & open the container. The danger of having a student accidentally open the pilot's emergency parachute while the door is open should be obvious. When I was flying a 182 jump plane, I had a tandem student grab my leg right above the knee when the door opened. She left bruises. Again, the conflicting info and different stories are a big part of the issue. Without basic facts that we can trust, sorting any of this out is going to be extremely difficult.

Noooooo. That's "FAKE NEWS"!!!! From the 'fakest' so called news network. Fox has already apologized for the mistake. The above screenshot is real. The idiocy of the Trumpettes never ceases to amaze me.

If the "civilian luxury type" rig was a sport rig (for sport skydiving) it should have had D-rings. If it was an emergency bailout rig (pilot rig) it would not. I always thought it was a sport rig, but that may have simply been an assumption on the part of the forum. It's entirely possible the 'red X' was an X and red flaps. Where did everything go? Damned good question. While it is a huge wilderness area, I recall that a placard from the plane was found. Did he leave the money in the bag, wrap it in the canopy, then stuff it in the container? Doubtful. To much bulk to fit. He didn't use the TDR canopy, it wasn't usable as a canopy. Or if he tried, it wouldn't have gone well. Why did one agent claim to find a white canopy? Again, good question. In the notes above, it says both canopies are white. Maybe, in the poor light of the airliner, it looked white. I don't know about DNA. First off, it was pretty much unknown back then. Would there be enough material (sweat?) to obtain DNA? Would it be viable after all that time?

I would guess that its the missing training dummy reserve (TDR). We covered this item in detail. It was a reserve canopy that had been cut up and resewed with several panels missing. It was used to teach the 'scoop and toss' deployment technique. The idea was that it could be flaked, S-folded & shoved back in the reserve container very quickly during training. Getting a 'real' reserve back in the container takes a bit of time. It was not airworthy and the container had a big red "X" on it, denoting 'not usable'. Nobody has yet come up with a good reason why something so obviously marked was taken. Other than the idea that the cops/agents who got it from Skysports had zero clue what they were taking. The screwy part about this is that Cooper needed some sort of 'container' to hold the money. He asked for a 'knapsack', but didn't get one. I have no idea how he planned on wearing both a knapsack (backpack) AND a rig going out the door. He seems to have wrapped the money up in 'white cloth', which would match with the TDR canopy. However, he had a perfectly usable container. The TDR container. It is a small bag, that closes very securely and is designed to be attached to a rig in a way that doesn't interfere with normal operation. But he took the Navy bailout rig, not the Pioneer sport rig (I seem to recall the other back rig was this). The Pioneer would have had 'D-rings' that were the attachment points for the reserve. The Navy rig did not have those. So, presuming the info is correct, he chose to wrap the money in a loose piece of cloth when he had a 'bag' available. He chose to tie it around his waist or to the rig, when he could have attached the TDR container to the sport rig, using the attachments designed for that purpose. Wrapping the money in a loose piece of cloth is pretty sketchy. Unless you've been there, the force of the air at freefall is hard to comprehend. Anything loose flaps in the wind and beats on you (Helpful hint - don't wear a shirt with a collar in freefall, it hurts). Anything not tied down will flap & fray. One jump and the collar of that shirt was trashed. Even with lots of paracord wrapped around a bundle, the probability of the money staying inside the whole way down is not super high. The probability of the bundle staying tied to him is also not super high. Lots of ideas and guesses that this may have been part of the reason the money on Tena Bar was found. Problem with this is how did it get there. Safecrack PLF did a boatload of work on that issue. TL/DR: Cooper would have used the canopy from the TDR, presuming that what Tina saw is what happened, and what is written down is what she saw. Eyewitness testimony is not super reliable.

This is one of the problems with taking the FBI files as 'gospel'. Cossey clearly stated that the chest reserves are 'hand deployed and do not contain pilot chutes'. Yet they still seem to think that the pink reserve is 'missing a drogue.' They also can't spell it. To a large degree, 'drogue' and 'pilot chute' are used interchangeably. It's not totally correct, but that's how it goes. A pilot chute is a small parachute that is used during the deployment process. In the case of a modern sport main, it pulls the bridle out, pulls the closing pin from the closing loop (opening the container), pulls the deployment bag out to line stretch (lines are stowed in 'bights', s-folded and held in place with rubber bands), pulls the bag off of the canopy, and then is collapsed as the canopy spreads out and opens. (yes, there are some variations, but this is the general process) A drogue is a small parachute used to stabilize and/or slow down the jumper (or other load) during freefall (technically droguefall). Kittinger used a drogue during his record jump. Both to stabilize him and to keep the speed down where the air was very thin. Tandems use a drogue once out of the plane, both to stabilize the tandem pair and to keep the speed down so that the main doesn't blow up on opening. Tandem terminal is really fast and pretty dangerous. On his record jump, Felix didn't use a drogue. He had a serious issue with a flat spin (he got out of it) and sped up to supersonic speeds. Part of the confusion is because the most common place a drogue is seen is on tandems. Tandem rigs use the drogue as both the drogue and pilot chute. I hope this doesn't come across as too critical or condescending. I'm interested in the truth, in figuring out who got on the plane as "Dan Cooper." The issue is that jumping and the gear used is pretty specialized, can be confusing to folks who don't know what's what, and the sport uses terminology that is complicated, counterintuitive, and very specific. The funny part is that the slang is a very simple and effective way to identify poseurs. It's pretty clear that the person who wrote those notes was not familiar with parachutes or jumping.

Ok, I could be wrong about the airstairs. I could be 'misremembering' or the consensus of the group was wrong. But the idea that Cooper had some inside info may not be wrong. He wanted them down in flight. As 377 noted, it's not in the operating handbook, the pilots didn't know it could be done. But Mr Blevins is incorrect about the idea that all canopies have pilot chutes. Modern ones do, but not the old reserves. To be clear, a modern main usually has a 'throw out' pilot chute, where the jumper grabs a handle attached to the pilot chute itself and throws it out into the airflow. The pilot chute is attached to a bridle (long strap) that is attached to the closing pin (small curved pin that holds the container closed) and then the deployment bag, where the actual canopy is folded up and stowed. A reserve has an actual ripcord, and a spring loaded pilot chute. When the reserve ripcord is pulled, the reserve container opens (the main & reserve are right above and below each other on the jumper's back) the spring launches the pilot chute out, which is again attached to a bridle that is attached to the deployment bag, where the canopy is folded and stowed. "Old School' chest mount reserves did NOT have a pilot chute. The entire canopy was tossed out by the jumper to deploy it. The part of the pink canopy where the arrow is pointing is simply the 'apex' of the canopy. Rounds have a hole in the top center. The lines run up the canopy and over the top as a continuous line over the entire canopy. Each individual line runs up from a riser, through the canopy, over the top and back down the other side to another riser. The bundle of lines at the arrow is just all of the lines crossing the top of the canopy. The link to the Citizen's Sleuth page doesn't show any pilot chute either. There are a couple pics that show the whole thing laid out on a table. The top (apex) of the canopy is visible. A pilot chute would be a small (~2' diameter, with a 2' long/6" diameter coil spring inside it) parachute attached to the top of the canopy with a long (6' or so) strap. Old main canopies had pilot chutes. Modern round canopies do too. Most that are in use today are in what we call 'pilot rigs', which are emergency bailout rigs worn by various types of pilots (jump planes, acrobatic, that sort of thing). The rig that Cooper (apparently) jumped was a Navy emergency bailout rig. It was not a 'sport rig' used by skydivers. It was the second rig described above. This would have had a pilot chute. But it wasn't a sport reserve. An emergency bailout rig and a sport reserve (chest mount) are two very different things. Mr Blevins - I didn't see your first response at first, so I didn't quote it. No, I don't think you are a 'sellout'. You are a professional writer. You write stuff, you get paid for it. If you weren't at least a little bit passionate about what you wrote, it wouldn't be anywhere near as good. But I felt before that your passion for what you wrote about KC over rode common sense. You were disregarding the stuff that made him less of a suspect because it didn't line up with your beliefs. Normal, but still wrong. Time often gives us a bit more objectivity and perspective. Edit to add: This is a link to a 'for sale' ad for a spring loaded pilot chute. This is similar to what would have been in the Navy Bailout rig. The strap on the bottom is the bridle, it would be attached to the top of the pink reserve at the line bundle (at the arrow) if it had one. https://www.flighthelmet.com/product/PEQ-1112.html

Oh my. Here we go again. I gave up on this thread when it became apparent that one particular poster was going to do what ever it took to 'prove' a certain suspect was Cooper. Including driving away other people who had the audacity to ask uncomfortable questions. Many of the 'old' DZ.com folks are no longer posting. Airtwardo hasn't been on here in ages. I think Amazon lurks on occasion, but she rarely posts. The whole site has become a lot less active overall. I haven't seen a post from Quade in a long time. I don't know if he's still here or not. I pity whatever moderator has to keep tabs on this. Mr Blevins - It's good to see you have stepped back from the "It has to be Christiansen." I don't think the evidence adds up. Like all the other suspects, there were a couple of things that pretty much took him out (I don't remember exactly what anymore). I don't doubt that the FBI still has all the files and will re-open the case if any real evidence appears. But I'm going to guess you got a 'canned' response about 'forwarding it to the current case agent'. I have to wonder who else of the non-jumping regulars is still around. Is Jo even still alive? I know she repeatedly complained about some pretty serious health issues. Georger was far from young. I hope he is doing well. Sluggo? He gave up on this thread well before it got locked. Flyjack - I think I remember Cooper wanting the stairs down for takeoff. The crew refused, saying it couldn't be done. It could have, as was found out at the end of the Viet Nam war, during the fall of Saigon. People were running up to and boarding a 727 with the stairs down as it taxied out and even at the beginning of the takeoff roll. The reserve parachutes of the time did not have a pilot chute (it's not a drogue, that's different). The reserve was deployed by opening the container (pack) and then executing a 'scoop and toss' move. The question of what Cooper wrapped the money in and how he secured it has been discussed to death on here. Again, from memory, I think the consensus was that he used the cloth bag the bank brought the money in and secured it with paracord from the opened reserve. All this is in here somewhere. But it's mixed in with a lot of bickering and irrelevant garbage. For the two 'new guys' - If you want to claim someone is Cooper, provide some evidence. Klansic, as Mr Blevins noted, is a mystery. So please explain why he should be a suspect. Ed Edwards is probably not him. He was lots of things, but 'serial confessor' is probably a good description. Not that he wasn't a psychopathic killer, but the bit I found about him makes me strongly doubt he's Cooper. Sooooo... To quote Jackie Gleason... And awaaaaaaaaay we go.

The ones he doesn't like. Come on professor, like so many Trumpettes, he chooses to believe the narrative he wants to believe. Anything he wants to believe is true. Anything he doesn't want to believe is 'fake news."

You are not now and never will be good enough to not die in this sport. Remember, stepping out of that plane may be the last thing you ever do. Don't take anything up in the plane you aren't willing to lose. That includes you. If you aren't careful and thorough and smart, you can easily die in this sport. If you are careful, thorough and smart, you will get to watch your friends die. Those are all quotes I've either read on here or heard in person. What other sport has an annual fatality report from the national organization?

It also helps if those goals are realistic. That's not the case for a lot of people today.

Well, that's at least part of why she got zero votes on her proposal. The fact that it was totally unrealistic is also part of it. I have a feeling she will learn. Keep in mind 'quid pro quo' means she will get some support for her ideas if she supports those of others. While I disagree with her on a lot of things, I'd like to see her succeed at least some. It would be nice if others could have her integrity. Temper it with a bit of reality and she may go far.

It doesn't hurt that some people want to believe that sort of garbage. They want to believe that HRC & the Dems are running a child sex ring in the basement of a pizza place. They want to believe that HRC deliberately abandoned the ambassador in Benghazi. They want to believe that HRC divulged classified material in her e-mails. They want to believe that the "liberal media" is full of lies. They want to believe that FB, Twitter & other social media are censoring conservative views, not just hatred & violence. They want to believe that Trump is a successful businessman and a 'strong leader, not a thief, con man, sexual predator, and on and on. Show them the truth and they will still believe what they want to believe.

Do you actually believe that the difference in energy prices between LA & CA is because of the percentage of renewables? Seriously?

I've heard reports that she isn't soliciting donations from big donors. Her social media presence is generating enough donations from 'small timers' that she doesn't need to. As a result, she doesn't have to spend hours & hours on the phone, soliciting donations. So she is actually attending hearings & committee meetings. You know, doing her job. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/netflix-democracy

So what? He sounds like a real scumbucket. He may have worked for Obama (and Bill Clinton, too), but what he's getting into trouble for was working for Paul Manafort, writing a report that was a 'whitewash' of a politically motivated arrest and show trial of one of Yanukovich's opponents. https://www.mintpressnews.com/greg-craig-washington-insider-may-be-headed-jail-work-ukraine/255596/ Unlike some folks on here, I don't care which side someone is on. If they break the law, they should face consequences.

Well, he was a Navy pilot when he was captured. He was shot down flying an A-4 Skyhawk. He was apparently a bit reckless and didn't follow the rules as well as he should have, but that's not the point. Billy said he was a 'jackass' as a Senator. While I didn't agree with all of his positions on all the issues, I had a lot of respect for him as a person and as a Senator. Well above average. I would like to know why Billy thinks he was a jackass. What particular positions or actions generated that opinion? Or is it just that his hero hates him, so Billy does too. You're right that Trump was never captured. He never served at all. His daddy paid a doctor to give him a medical deferment. Of course, McCain criticized the idea that 'rich kids' could get their daddies to buy deferments, while poor kids were dying over there.

In what way? What specific positions that he held would you say qualifies him as a 'jackass'? Tax? Civil rights? Foreign policies?

And, of course, when asked about the huge deficits that will result from those tax cuts, Trump said he didn't care. He wouldn't be president when the problem would become serious, so he didn't care.

Ya mean like all the stuff being spewed about AOC? All the stuff about HRC? I find it a bit disgusting that the "Alt-Right" seems to advocate violence and hatred far more than the far left. Both get censored. And then people like you complain about it.