Hooknswoop

We all hope we never brain fart and fight a spinner down to 500' before chopping, or do something foolish to induce spinning line twists at 500', or have a mal and for whatever reason have such a hard pull on our cutaway handle we can’t pop it until 500'. But if we do, an RSL may make the difference between whether we skydive The Farm, or buy it.*** You would have to be in one of those situations and then also fail to pull the reserve handle immediately after a cutaway. Derek

From: May 12, 2004, 11:26 AM " Please note that the above letter about RSL's from the Relative Workshop was prior to the introduction of the Skyhook RSL. The Skyhook was designed to remove most, if not all of the "problems" associated with conventional RSL's. The Colins' Lanyard solves the problem of the RSL riser releasing first, and the Skyhook solves the pilot chute entrapment problem and the unstable deployment problem. The Relative Workshop now recommends Skyhook RSL's to all customers, regardless of experience level. Jumpers who do a lot of CReW might be the only exception. However, no device is perfect, and everyone's best course of action is not to get so low that you need an RSL in the first place. Just remember...an RSL is sort of like a gun. If you really need it, but don't have it, you'll never need it again. " Was there something else you were referring to? I posted that more in response to "The advantages of RSL's greatly exceed their risks. Quite frankly, I'm at a loss to understand how anyone can come to a differing conclusion. " Derek

They are connected to the same harness, so you can have more weight on one side than the other with them even. With the canopy in a 2 "G" producing spin, your WL is doubled, so it doesn't take a lot to keep the canopy in a spin. From normal, steady state flight, it takes a lot more harness input to get the canopy to start the turn. Don't worry, I've confused myself 3 times in this thread alone Derek

Not necessarily. You can have more weight on one side of the harness with the 3-rings even. That is correct also. You can get slack in the lines with the 3-rings being even. You can also load up one side more than the other with the 3-rings even. Derek

I’ll try and explain how I came to a different conclusion. The vast majority of malfunctions/cutaways/reserve deployments either are or can be done without an RSL being needed to deploy the reserve for the jumper. Instability is a cause of malfunctions. Reserves are not designed to be deployed while unstable, they have the highest chance of opening when the jumper is stable. The RSL can cause the reserve to be deployed while the jumper is unstable. The RSL does not know the altitude of the jumper or if they want the reserve to deploy immediately after a cutaway or not. In other words, they will activate the reserve following a cutaway from a deployed main canopy regardless if the jumper wants it to happen or if it the right thing to do or not. Jumpers can either knowingly or unknowingly rely on them. As the recent incident where the jumper cutaway from a total and was waiting for the RSL to activate the reserve only to be saved by her AAD demonstrates. I believe this has happened before and will happen again. There have been several fatalities that would not have happened if they had not had an RSL. For the cutaways where the RSL is a positive, more often than not, the situation could have been avoided by proper training, gear choices, and maintaining altitude awareness during the skydive. So, for the vast majority of RSL reserve deployments following a cutaway, the RSL makes the situation worse, not better because the jumper didn’t need it and the jumper did not have the option of getting stable. The above does not apply to the Skyhook. Here is a very smart person’s thoughts about the RSL: The following also does not apply to the Skyhook. "Facts about the "Reserve Staticline Lanyard" Posted Thursday, October 15, 1998 By Relative Workshop Facts about the "Reserve Staticline Lanyard"Lately there has been a big push towards the use of the reserve staticline lanyard (RSL) for experienced jumpers. Most proponents of the RSL have only been dwelling on the positive aspects of the RSL without considering the negative consequences. The Relative Workshop wants to educate each jumper regarding the pros and cons of the RSL system so you will be able to make an informed decision about this popular, yet controversial modification. For those of you unfamiliar with the RSL system, a short description is in order. The RSL is a simple lanyard connecting one or both of the main canopy risers to the reserve ripcord. In the event of a main canopy malfunction, and following a successful breakaway, the reserve ripcord is pulled as the main risers depart with the released main canopy. In essence, the RSL indirectly connects the breakaway handle to the reserve ripcord handle. Unfortunately, this simple lanyard can easily complicate a routine emergency for those who are more than capable of handling the problem manually. The RSL has gained much of its notoriety through its use on student equipment. The RSL is ideal for students because the probability is high that a student might breakaway from a malfunction lower than the recommended altitude, and delay longer than necessary before deploying the reserve. Having the reserve deploy in a unstable body position, while far from ideal, is preferential to not having the reserve deploy at all. Waiting for the AAD to fire if the breakaway is extremely low is a chancy situation at best. For these reasons, the RSL is quite compatible for student gear and most instructors would probably agree! RSL's work great on tandem systems as well. The tandem instructor really has his hands filled during a malfunction so the speedy deployment of the reserve is a big advantage. Stability after a breakaway is generally not a problem as the tandem pair have inherent stability qualities due to the positioning of the passenger and tandem master. If the tandem master has properly prepared the passenger's body position, a tandem breakaway has a greater potential for instant stability than a solo breakaway. Both student and tandem jumps are carried out at higher altitudes and rarely involve other jumpers in the same airspace, minimizing the chance of canopy entanglements which can complicate matters severely. RSL's and the experienced jumper - Pros vs. Cons Remember, the RSL does one thing and one thing only: It will activate (providing it does not physically fail) the reserve container following a main canopy breakaway. That's it! Now lets talk about the disadvantages of the RSL. 1) Most jumpers don't realize that utilizing a RSL correctly requires changing their emergency procedures. Why? The reason is simple: Most RSL systems offer the ability to disconnect it from the riser. If it's disconnectable, then there will be situations that may require a disconnection before proceeding with the breakaway. An obvious one that comes to mind is a canopy entanglement with another jumper. If one or both jumpers have an RSL and they mindlessly breakaway without considering the consequences, they might very well find themselves entangled again, possibly for the last time! Canopy entanglements are happening more frequently now than ever before due to several reasons: A) More inexperienced jumpers engaging in larger RW formations. B) The recent popularity of ultra-fast zero porosity canopies. The result is: Skies crowded with more inexperienced jumpers flying faster canopies. Emergency procedures for systems fitted with RSLs would change in the following manner: Before the breakaway, you must ask yourself (considering your present malfunction) if an immediate reserve deployment will be in your own best interest. If not, the RSL must be released before proceeding with the breakaway. NOTE: Anytime the RSL remains active during a breakaway, the jumper should automatically plan on pulling the reserve handle anyway just in case the RSL connection fails to activate the reserve container for whatever reason. This lack of awareness regarding the need to back up the reserve pull manually is an increasing and disturbing trend among some of today's jumpers. 2) The average jumper will take more than several seconds to analyze and determine if the RSL disconnection is necessary. This can obviously consume valuable time. No doubt the average jumper would be better off handling the emergency manually by pulling both handles, which is not a difficult task. 3) Lets examine the cause of malfunctions in the first place. The biggest culprits are improper packing and rigging, or bad body position during deployment. (Bad body position can be defined as shoulders not perpendicular to the relative wind.) s almost impossible to be stable within the first second and a half following a breakaway from a malfunctioning high performance main canopy. Therefore, the typical RSL user is most likely unstable during the reserve deployment. Instability causes malfunctions and allowing the RSL to open the reserve container for you will increase the chance that the reserve canopy will malfunction as well. One might argue that this would be a rare occurrence, but why would an experienced jumper take the chance? Some would consider this an unacceptable risk! 4) CRW enthusiasts, for the obvious reasons mentioned in point 1, do not want or need a RSL. For those that have one, it should be disconnected prior to boarding the aircraft on a planned CRW jump. Freefall videographers should never jump with an active RSL systemThe last thing a camera-person needs is the reserve deploying while they're unstable. Just recently in France a fatality occurred when a RSL-activated reserve canopy entangled with the jumpers helmet-mounted camera equipment. 6) The RSL will not work during a total malfunction of the main container, and do not assume that it can take the place of a functioning, properly calibrated automatic activation device. An RSL is not an AAD. Summation The RSL system was developed over 25 years ago and found its proper place on student equipment. Due to the fact the skydiving community encounters several deaths each year attributed to the "no-reserve-pull-following-a-breakaway scenario," we have many individuals who feel the RSL is the answer for the experienced jumper. Our belief is quite simple: If every jumper had a RSL, then the amount of RSL related deaths each year would be many more than we now encounter with no-pull situations. Naturally we have tremendous concern whenever someone wants to take a simple, 3-handle system and turn it into some complicated apparatus in an attempt to make up for the inadequacies of the poorly trained or ill-prepared jumper. We believe if you stick to the basics, constantly rehearse your emergency procedures, and assume you'll have a malfunction on every jump - you'll be much better off. Remember: The RSL is not a safety device for experienced jumpers because it takes more time to operate it correctly than to pull the breakaway and reserve handles manually. Now that you have been presented with the all the facts, we hope you'll make the right decision for yourself regarding the RSL. If you would like to have a consultation on your personal skydiving equipment needs, please call Relative Workshop at anytime during the hours of 8am - 6pm EST. We have a highly experienced staff of riggers and instructors who are anxiously awaiting to assist you. If we don't have the answers to your questions, we probably know who does! Remember, we're here to help you make the right decisions concerning your skydiving equipment and its proper use." Derek

I've had a FX-70 do that on a high altitude hop and pop. It did it from opening until after I made a turn, then it went away and didn't come back. Derek

You can't see how much weight is on each riser set though. Again, the risers can be exactly even, but still have more weight one one side than the other, which is magnified in a spin. Derek

Yes. Stilettos are a good canopy for this type of testing. Derek

Even if it did, the canopy would still recover. Without some aerodynamic force making it turn, a canopy will fly straight. Oversteer is just how long after everything is equalized it takes for the canopy to come out of the turn. If everything was even, weight, lines, risers, etc, then the canopy would recover to straight and level. Without something causing a turn, it doesn't turn. Even if the pilot isn't aware of more weight going though one set of risers than the other doesn't mean that it isn't happening. Derek

Even with the 3-rings even, you can still have more weight on one side than the other. If everything was even, it would fly straight. Derek

Exactly, there is no reason it should. It is doing it because of harnes input. Releasing the brakes while countering the harness input with the toggles (doesn't take a lot) stops the turn and takes the "G" forces off the harness. It takes more harness input to start a turn than it doea to sustain it. Derek

Why? How does releasing the brakes stop the turn? What is causing the canopy to turn that releasing the brakes removes? Derek

It is turning because of harness input. No input = no turn. Releasing the brakes alone doesn't stop a turn unless the brake lines are uneven. Derek

With my VX-60, I could make it fly straight with harness input with only one brake stowed. There is plenty of input from a rear riser to sto a spin. Derek

If it is spinning with the brakes set, it will spin with the brakes released, all other things being equal. Think about it. Something is causing the canopy to turn, an unequal input, otherwise it would fly straight. The only way releasing the brakes will stop a spin is if one brake line is shorter than the other between the brake setting and the tail. Derek

LOL, no worries, The Relative Workshop. They make the Vector III, Micron, Sigma Tandem Systgem, etc. You'll hear people say how comfortable their rig is, remember comfort is subjective, hence the sleep number system. Also, if you try on a rig, if it has small canopies in it, it is going to be comfortable, try on a rig that has similarly sized canopies you are going to have in yours. You are looking for main and reserve pin protection. Main bridle protection. Secure riser covers. Basically any new generation container meets these minumums. Of course, the Skyhook is very nice, but only available on RWS's containers. Everything else is preference and marketing. Derek

You can only get it on RWS's newest containers. Derek

The Skyhook sets the Vector III apart from any other rig. Everything else is preference and marketing. Derek

Right, but the bottom line is canopies like the Stiletto, Crossfire, and Cobalt are not for students or beginners. The advent of crossbraced canopies has not changed the performance of these canopies. Derek

With a much lower aspect ratio. Derek

They are very similar. And the speed it generates in a dive? And the sensitivity in the flare? A stiletto hasn't gotten any lower in performance than when it was first introduced. Just because there are higher performance canopies out now does nothing to change the performance of a Stiletto (or Cobalt). They are not student canopies. PD agrees, Atair does not. Derek

Good. Getting out of the line twists is secondary to getting the canopy to stop spinning. You are eating up altitude at a very fast rate under a sponning canopy, too many people have under estimated how much with poor results. My point to all this is there is much more to flying a HP canopy that pulling toggles and risers. Derek

What did they do differently to get out of the spinning line twists? How much altitude does you canopy lose in one 360? Right. Do you have riser inserts? That is good, keep it up. Derek

The Safire is no Cobalt or Stiletto. Derek

What do you know about; Spinning line twists? Riser inserts? Cutaway cable maintenance? Line set life spans? Vectran, HMA, Spectra, Dacron? Wing loading? Setting up steering line length? Derek