georger

If there was an SR-71 spy plane overflight of the US, as part of a domestic criminal investigation in 1971, that would be huge interesting news. (CIA -> domestic) Reply> Hi altitude IR scanning perhaps? Even if used it didnt find him?

Quotegot it. I'm being perfectly straightforward in saying I don't understand what Safe is trying to get at, REPLY> and nobody else does either! Its all mind games. Nostradamus: "Follow the evidence" ..."Fundamental Mistake" ... "When I was able to demonstrate..."Hidden truth". It's Jo talk. But he does get people to react as if he's got something. If he had something he would have found Cooper years ago and be famous. Safe is either the laziest genius in Washington or he's in a wheelchair on oxygen and can only post once every Blue Moon when somebody brings him a new battery? Safe wins the Skooter Chair Award.

I believe the two are linked. Specifically, I sense strongly that looking into the FBI's activities and decision-making process will give us a direction that leads to DB Cooper's home or grave. Now, the question is, can I prove the FBI's investigation has been compromised? Not yet, and I wonder if I could ever solve it to your satisfaction. But, I'm trying. As for crazy people and confessions, I feel I have developed capacity for discerning their truth. I worked for 16 years as a psychotherapist (14 as a recreation therapist in VA, private, and public psychiatric facilities, and two years as an family and youth counselor in foster care). In my humble clinical opinion, I believe that DB Cooper had a personality disorder. The single most compelling piece of information from the FBI's files, for me, is that no one has come forth to announce a missing family member. It is as if DB Cooper came from no where and returned to no where. No friends, family, co-workers, land lords or neighbors have reported a vanished loved one/associate/tenant who could be a suspect. Along those lines, Barb Dayton clearly had a personality disorder, and I think the same might be true for the other leading suspects. Reply> Those are sweeping goals and assumptions. You must have access to FBI records beyond what is available at Seattle? The issues here are flight path, drop zone, and money at Tina Bar; issues intrinsically numerical in nature unless some psychological component can be shown. Ckret thought Cooper was a "dumb ass" and bailed in a confused panic. That may be as 'psychological' as it gets. An FAA psychiatrist gave his opinion and was so far off the mark as to be ludicrous. You are saying the FBI botched the investigation and therefore the investigation itself contains unprocessed clues, and somewhere in the files is a lead that leads straight to Cooper's former home or his grave. All identifiable now due to social psychological clues and tools, applied to styles and errors in management ? That is very close to saying: "THE FBI WAS COOPER!" How many layers deep do you suppose these clues are? Sluggo posted the names of lead invesitigators who have managed this case. Which investigator do you suspect as being incompetent, or which clerk failed to alert General Marshall the Japs were coming!? These are sweeping goals? So, you are an investigator of the investigators? How large a staff is at your disposal! ? Lucky for me Im only have to find a flight report filed 8:40pmPST apx 11-24-71 at PDX. It might be interesting to try a PI on Cooper. I did a quickie using the Jung-Meyers-Briggs; My Cooper estimate came out: 72% Introverted, 1% Sensing, 38% Thinking. Occupational: Computer programming, Mechanics/Auto Repair. Your estimate would produce different results. Give it a go. The FBI did profiling of Cooper but some clerk lost it!

There probably wasn't a Continental flight behind Flight 305. Enroute at 14k is very unlikely, and pireps of winds aloft are unlikely. Georger is looking into it. Reply: I talked to people at PDX and in Continental. Bohan is remembered but nobody seems able or inclined to nail down the Continental 11-24-71 flight behind NWA flight 305. There doesnt seem much doubt that the flight occurred, as reported by H. Tom Bohan knew the Manager at PDX, Kenneth Hastings. Nobody seems to know if the old records even exist, today. PDX people were very helpful. Continental people were ... resistant. I will try and do more next week - Unless I am mistaken I thought Ckret said the Bohan report was bogus, or not quite true, or not reported accurately - something like that. I also thought I read (or heard) that H did not accept the account either? Im a bit confused, frankly. I will pursue this further .... and report.

... as I said we arent dealing with technical people. And yet they fly and work on planes etc. That's fine. They now are trying their hands at story telling. Ever build a boat out of ice? Georger your avatar allways reminds me of the million monkeys typing theme - I forget the origins of your avatar, but this will hopefully amuse you. I've seen a couple of versions - this a rip'off of a youtube commentators version I love it! Thanks. Prior to the Bonobo chimp I had no avatar. Didnt think one was necessary. Then intelligence dipped to an all time low here and I posted the thinking chimp in a reply, then made it my own avatar. Seemed appropriate. I dabbled in primate research when young. A former friend of mine directed the primate program at NASA prior to human astronauts being allowed to fly - John Glenn, Grisom, and Shirra threatened a strike and a press conference if the primate program wasnt haulted and a window designed into the capsules (true story). Its hard to believe we were ever at that stage! At the time a group of German scientists held sway at NASA and didn't think humans could function in space. (Jim Van Allen agreed!) Hee hee. God bless him...

If the raincoat was the kind I think it was - yes, some of the pockets would have been large enough in those days to put these books in - also they are flexible, but do not appear have been bent much at any given time. ========================= Your answer lies within the question. No this is not a riddle. I only saw Duane READ one book while I knew him (the Norjak book). He possessed these books and at one time he may have been interested in them to pass the time while on the plane. Before I mentioned this - the title on one specific book would have been reason enough for Duane Weber to have put the book in his hands and gone thru it. The title was associated with a strong memory of his childhood. ======================= There are NO copyright dates in these. Yes, they are printed material and the most important one is the smaller book with a gold cover and black binding comb - this one had the picture in it and with the water damage. This one book seems to be much older than the larger book. The thicker book appears to be a 1960's book...due to some references in it. Jeez the story of Duane as Cooper grows more far fetched by the minute We now have a guy jumping with books with sentimental value on a hijacking. So that we can keep track of this all - Duane jumped with 1) A bucket to keep the money 2) The money 3) briefcase 4) Dan Poynter's missing draft of "Parachutist" (it has a distinctive gold cover) 5) Peter Pan's guide to wilderness survival (blue spiral bound edition) 6) A dialysis machine 7) Marilin Monroe 8) Burger King happy meal (brown paper bag) What Duane didn't know was the missing 35mm SAGE radar caught the following image that ties him to the scene [url]ht Reply - dont Happy Meals come from McDonalds? Fact is they brought on meals at SEA. Pooper asked for meals for the crew. There's a comment in the transcript about maps having been brought on 'with the meals'. Did Pooper get one of those meals? Major gap in our knowledge! Did he jump on a full or empty stomach? What was in those meals? Did Duane like rutabagas and horsraddish (amoracia rusticana)? Bet he did. Does Jo like borscht?

... as I said we arent dealing with technical people. And yet they fly and work on planes etc. That's fine. They now are trying their hands at story telling. Ever build a boat out of ice?

It was insane. Now you've soldered a bit. Can you imagine anyone, who thought enough about the problem, to solder the joint, and decide "staple remover" when it came time to pick a switch. Talk about an unreliable switch! It might accidently close in your pocket. And the contacts are unreliable! A staple remover has jaws that go past each other with incidental sliding contact. And you can't solder to the plated steel on a staple remover!!! A switch is so inexpensive at the hardware store. Even those, would more likely be simple screw down contacts. It's like she was lying in their face, and they just kept buying the story. Maybe she was trying to keep going bigger and bigger all the time with her stories, to see just when people would say "no way". Odd. definitely. But there are lots of odd people like that. We only hear about the ones who additionally say "I'm Cooper" and are connected to someone who then thinks it's worth their time to run a PR campaign for them. (edit) 377: Hey no fair demonstrating you know how to have a life! :) This is beginning to sound like Cane Mutiny - Bogart. Ball bearings. Strawberries, And soldering. Mutiny. I didnt realise soldering was crucial? Cooper had a grudge. A mutiny?

well I really dont want to comment out of respect of people's feelings. Saying that was too much. The thing about Barb that people are missing is it would make a wonderful story just as she was, with the right author. Would even be a contribution to literature. Might even win an award. Barb's story is part of the human condition. Its a story worth telling. We had a hermit that lived on my grandparent;s north section when I was a kid. The man was a WWI vet (like Benny Ambrose in Boundary Waters area of MN) He had relatives that saw to his welfare. I learned more about nature from this guy than almost any other person in my background. People like this werent uncommon back in the 40s & 50s. Bachelors chosing to live close to Nature. People forget how things used to be - Im not going to make a big deal about this but if I were the Formans I would take a different track with the Barb story. They may have been fortunate to know Barb and she had things to teach us. Thats all Im going to say.

Barb was a serious person and not Cooper. Im a little disappointed the Formans are not as serious as Barb! Barn had serious issues - what are the Forman's excuse?

Is that likely to be the case in the near future? When Hell freezes over. But I do owe you an apology, maybe, and for that be aware people have been contacted at PDX and at Continental trying to get Bohan's flight report filed at PDX appx 8:56pm PST 11-24-71. If H or Larry dont have a copy which I doubt. Two who knew Bohan well are helping. Bohan knew the PDX Manager "Hastings" well. It was Hastings who paved the way for Bohan to meet with Ralph. I havent talked to Ralph about this but Im conifdent enough of the information to post it. We intend to get to the bottom of the Bohan report, one way or another ...

Thank God! Somebody has their radar working here!

--------------------------------------- I stated as a reply with the following: ---------------------------------- Georger posted: TO ALL from Jo: Lots of the information here is 3 and 5 party "gossip". Take for instance the part about the magazines Cooper supposedly was reading. I did not take that as a truth because I had never heard it before. I DID take that chance to put in my supposition regarding the books in my possession, I do NOT know were those books came from or if he read them on the plane. I know they came into my home in 1990 and placed in plain site. I know that one of these books came out of the OR and WA area - "due to the contributor population". I know one of the books has water damage on the lower quarter (the book with the pic in it). I know he was protective of these books because I used one of them for a specific purpose and he asked me to be careful with this book...do NOT even ask what the purpose was - because I will not tell anyone at this time. I take information (true of false) as it come thru the media or the fourm or elsewhere and process it with the things I have and with the memories I have of my time with Duane and that trip. This should not be something to discredit me with, but doing exactly what everyone else does to prove or disprove something I know or have knowledge of. To do this I have to make suppositions and wait for the feed back...for example the information about the magazines - my chance to theorize how and why those books meant so much to him. I do not know where those books came from, but my goal is to find out if they have anything to do with Cooper. Did Duane use rubbers?

To a 5 year old, an 8 years old is an expert & wise. Everything is context driven, including you.

Thats funny you should bring this up, or care, with new naked man avatar posted: DUANE IS GOD. Are you just soft in the head or a suicide in the making?

The mention of McCoy's North Star altimeter brought back memories. I collect skydiving altimeters and have two North Star models. I still jump them once in a while. They had a stupid design error and had only three screw mount holes 90 degrees apart. If you used suspension line loops to tie your altimeter to a mount (common) you had to improvise a forth connection point. 377 And isnt it coincidental that after McCoy then Cooper had (to have) a 'wrist altimeter' too, in the minds of so many people, including one lady here. Duane had an altimeter .... all of Gods chillen gotta have an altimeter. You cant hijack without one!

I havent reply to this because I didnt know what to say if saying anything is relevant - I think I know where the Forman(s) are coming from and why they want to tell Barb's story. They were impressed by Barb on a number of levels. There are in fact, legendary figures in every venue. Solitary figures who stand out who depart from the norm. Hermits with a story to tell and exploits some of which turn out real. A Watson Roland in the pre WWII lower SE Iowa-Missouri area. A Benny Ambrose in northern Minnesota, Old Ray Phillips and Louis Shamy and Sheknee Canoe (real name!) in northern Michigan and north of Thessalon along the Mississagua .... and when you get to Alaska there's an endless supply of these people. All with exploits under their belts and a legend ready to be made... journalists love to try and make legends. Of course the Formans have a few facts wrong; facts that matter. Without the facts there is no case. What interests me more is the assumption it takes someone of heroic status to fill Cooper's shoes. Why do people continue to assume that when in terms of the evidence Cooper was only an average guy? I guess his exploit makes him singular. Barb survived her exploits, as do most legendary figures, whereas Cooper may not have survived his one-and-only exploit. Cooper may not be the individual hero people wish him to be - Have you ever noticed that when winter is going into Spring it looks a little like Fall coming on? Everything is all wet a mushy and heavy with a moderate temperature. And when Fall is coming on going into Winter, it looks and feels a lot like Spring? A person could get lost in this natural similitude if you didnt have a clock and a calendar and a memory ... Cooper is like that. People who want to be Cooper are like that. People who dont want to be Cooper are like that! It all gets rather confusing. (It takes the shock of Snowboy's pathetic naked body flashing the field to shake us out of our stupor and restore the sense of who we are and where things are at - and of course that is exactly the role Snowboy has devised for itself!) But Snowboy is not Cooper. Duane is not Cooper. McCoy is not Cooper. Sluggo is not Cooper. You are not Cooper. Jo in her wildest delirium is not Cooper. And Barb was not Cooper either, anymore than Cooper was Barb! (Think of it that way) Would Cooper want to be Barb? What's your guess. For two halves to join both halves must agree! I will repeat that: For two halves to join both halves must agree! That is something the Formans can relate to with respect to the Barb they knew. Barb would confirm this is 100% true. Barb had a deep seated inner conflict that was terrible to live with. Her inner demon was very specific. Silent and angry, disappointing, and no answer ever coming from God to resolve it. Hijacking an airplane would be TOO EASY FOR BARB! She would not waste her time doing it! Case closed.

These are all sound-bites, taken out of context. By themselves they mean nothing. I am surprised you dont know that. But you dont have to take my word for it, thank God! At the same time you are missing the big story, ie how the Transcripts were put together. That was S.O.P. given technology at the time_ and you and Jo thought it was just poor investigating with a thick overlay of dishonesty! Sluggo once mentioned "cultural goggles". It may be you would learn more about the DB Cooper case by reading: "Standard Investigative Practices in Organizational Structures", by H. Dolittle. Or, you could simply walk into the the music library of the Kansas City City Band, and notice all the file cabinets and thousands of files, and ask how any music program gets put together, for any given night! Its an organisational mystery! I know firsthand. Not much difference back in the day. J. Edgar's favorite march was: "Stars and Stripes Forever" and he especially liked the piccolo part. Dum dum dum dum duddle-ludle dum dum ... You could see J Edgar's eye's light up and a smile begin to form. Where's the piccolo part in the DB Cooper case? Maybe you could play it? Its just that when considering evidence and truth you might also want to consider the process and the system that delivers it rather than running on auto-pilot screaming: "Those FBI morons didnt do a good job blah blah blah". But, I am not saying anything most of the people here dont already know, and are mulling over in silence. You look at a map and think "map" and are ready to calculate and criticize. I look at a map and I think "system that brought it into being". That's why I asked for the HISTORY of the map(s) early, but got no reply or interest - and it was over that very issue that Sluggo and I got to know each other off camera and I realised quite early, just as I had assumed, that a system created the map, not the reverse. Now! If you want to discuss Sr18 vs. Sr19 on the Wahsougal side vs. Lewis side, that's another matter. It still wont solve the riddle of carbonaceous bacterial sediment from the Willamette, now will it? That my friend is metallic vs nonmetallic and so general in nature as to be nonspecific and a sound byte, while at the same time the process that delivered maps is crucial - - - and the right people know that. Byte away - and you changing of avatars is pathetic.

Quotegeorger opined: always seems that way to the novices - novices opin.

That sounds pretty close to a personal attack to me. Old Ituri Forest legend (you know where I mean): When you leave the forest dont mess with old lions. They can gum you to death!

Silly Baboon - you know who he is, and I have no idea who Bruce Lee is. Who is Bruce Lee? This is the recounting of the DUANE WEBER trip in 1979 removed my reply - you wouldnt believe it anyway. My bad. I keep assuming you are sane. Good luck to the Heroine who thinks she's 23! Miz Scarlett? Big Dady's gonna whup ya. Git home to Tara right away -

Part of the lawsuit was because the FBI agent claimed to have shown the tie and clip from the Cooper jump to the mother and the wife of McCoy and quoted them as saying it was McCoy's. The family never said this. Exactly where I read this I don't remember, but it was part of why they sued and won - out of court. Somewhere in this 15 ft of paper I have it and the article it appeared in. This agent was trying to prove that Cooper and McCoy where one and the same. He was quoted as saying that when they killed McCoy they killed Cooper. PS. I have never read the McCoy book or the Drayton Book - I refrain from doing so - for obvious reasons. Reply> Quoting you: "My reply is that I never (try)to be 100% accurate - as I was replying to other responses. You have too much on your mind. You should try to focus on one thought and process that, write it down, then move to the next piece of gossip, focus on it, maybe write it down ......... thast the normal protocol for fence gossip from 5th party seperations between Florida and Washington. Or, you could hire better spies!

Okay - you guys have wanted to know what I was holding and now I will tell you PART of it. The FBI will never disclose this, but from what I have I feel I am right. Cooper was reading something, but it was NOT a magazine, but something else entirely. It was a book - but not just a regular book - it had a plastic spiral binding and the cover was gold. He knew his prints where on that item so he took it with him. I give up, the FBI will not listen to me and a lot of this is not in their "secret" files. For 13 yrs they have done nothing but try to discredit me. I have been lied to by several individuals recently - How STUPID I am to allow myself to be used. One has deliberately tried to manuever me and for the most part was sucessful. The other is someone I trusted - but he lied to me and I trusted him. No one tells the truth anymore - everyone is out just for themselves and the FBI doesn't want this case solved. What I am feeling now is NOT good - I feel violated and used. I had something else to say but right now I have to regain my composure. Bye. Jo you really do need to stop relying on third and fifth party gossip handed down from morons. It gets you into trouble every time. You ran out of 1st hand reliable info 12 years ago, in Salt Lake City. This really has become shabby and crude!

I wonder what that unique chemical marker is? - Betcha I know. Something I have tried to tell the FBI for yrs - he money was NOT always in the Columbia. REPLY: How perfectly obtuse. Betcha you dont know. Guess all you want, you will be wrong. Who is this "HE" you keep referring to below? Bruce Lee? Georger Perhaps a container near the river EAST of where Winterly park is currently located. That chemical marker could be leaching from the container or the trees growning there or from residue the container once held. There is one other possible place the money was buried and that would have been where Duane went that morning he dissapeared from the The Dalles for 5 1/2 hrs returing soiled. This means it was more than likely buried inland - perhaps toward Mt. Hood. I have had others speculate he could have drove all the way to Vancouver, but that didn't make sense because why would he push for us to make The Dalles - because where he had to go was not too far from there - the Dalles was probably the closest. If he had gone onto Vancouver that day he would not have been able to take me on that sentiment trail he wanted to "live over one more time". I do not know where he could have gone from The Dalles that morning - but it definitely was not into Washougal were we went later that day - because he almost missed his turn since the intersection had changed on Hwy 14 to get to Washougal...that is a red flag he had not been there earlier that morning. I will go to a part of that trip I didn't think too important but now in retrospect I think it might be very important: ATTENTION MR. KAYE He mentioned Mt. Hood and the Hood River - but actually I think he had already been there earlier that day - the other option is on Highway 14 on the Washington side - He mentioned how rugged the country was there - and pointed out a ridge - telling me there was a cave of sorts there ....it was at this point he said there is nothing but forest for a few miles. Later we arrive at the turn off for Washougal. You know the rest of the story.

so many confessors - so little time!