georger

Like the attached? How far up from river? What's the date of the week?

Lets talk tomorrow night. Been a very long hard day. I still have paperwork and to bed early. Hope this works for you -

Jerry, I know you don't claim to be a scientist (although you've made some deductions based on what you've researched)....but what science did you see Tom doing when you were with him? The last time you started talking about Tom's work, Tom shut you up, saying the FBI told him to keep his data under wraps. What data was Tom supposed to keep under wraps? Was it just the erroneous silver identification? From watching the Nat Geo, what's your impression of what science was done? Lets keep in mind Tom has not spoken. I am not convinced the Lewis River theory is Tom's latest theory, or ever was. It may be someone else's theory. Sluggo's advice is worth taking. We really dont know who or what ... for all we know it could be Ckret's latest theory? Nobody that I know of has talked to Tom.

I am ing my Friging Head Off. (since I don't use that kind of language I have no idea how to spell it). Choking up. Got to stop this. I can't help it I am still laughing Explain ?

nah. more that the whole thing is kind of boring. It kind of doesn't matter what anyone says etc. Nothing really worth thinking about, or researching. Skepticism is good.

Good job! And the DATE is this ocurrence? (the finding of the $$$$$ after the hi tide) ???

I arrive at a crime scene. 20+ witnesses say "fragments". Investigators arrive and see and confirm fragments and include it in their reports. 10-20 years later people are still reporting fragments. 37 years later an auction company finds previously uncatalogued fragments mixed it with other fragments from the original find. It might be safe to assume there were: fragments? In addition, the auction company has confirmed at least 15 more serial numbers than previously recorded. Some process conspired to have fragments of money scattered in some area at Tina Bar with 2.5 bundles in tact with fragments of rubber bands still in place! Witnesses report fragments scattered on the surface. Palmer documents fragments (in the soil/sand). He doesnt specify depth. (He forgot his ruler!) Now... embarrassing question: if the Ingrams collected bundles/bills, did they collect fragments? We know they witheld a couple of bills for ole times sake but after 'meditation', the sister was allowed to bring two more bills in. Is there a box of fragments in someone's cellar? Bruce? Did you ask Faxio how large an area the frags were distributed over, and the exact location? Did you have GPS with you? Did Faxio mention cows in any of this?

Not to mention two other factors (a) he lands in the Lewis. FP and winds must support that. and (b) unrelated: no dredge debris at the money location ie. Palmer is wrong.

Bruce I failed to ask... its important. In all of this did Faxio's say anything about their cows? Were their cows on the bar? Had they been sending their cows to the bar during this period? Anything about their cows during this period? --------------------------- Also, failed to ask in your conversation with Rat: Did you ask Rat what he meant by "... and I could see the suburbs of Portland coming up ...." This is key in all the Rat testimony. Thanks. Georger

We covered hydraulics well. Tides not so well and covered briefly. Turns out I never did post the ephemeris or tables I have, but did post this one for 11.24.74. If you detect Im avoiding saying too much, I am. Been a very long intense day, a good (very good) day, but damn I am tired and trying to settle down so I can think - first cup of coffee Ive had since 7 am. Been on the run all day -

How could such significant and visually obvious evidence be missed by everyone else investigating the site??? Why were no samples collected? Why would the FBI dig so much if it was obvious that all the money was on the surface? Your thoughts on this Bruce? Tidal variation in water depths are found far upstream in many major rivers that flow to the sea. Net current flow however is rarely upstream on a flood tide unless it is a dry summer with little downstream fresh water. The fragments were seen. They certainly were reported (right out front). They just got diminished in importance for some reason. Fazio explains as: 'those govt guys'! I now believe even Tosaw screwed it up. He reports it but does not see the significance. Palmers reports it ... in passing. Tides: are a major factor at Portland and in the whole area around Portland to further up river. That much I know. Go back and look at my old post in reply to Jo, with tide tables. Jo actually brought it up. I replied quick because I had been thinking about it and had fresh data. Take Bruce's FAZIO report at face value and see where it leads you. You will begin to smile -

Did the parts of the bills that broke away from the main bodies, experience something that caused them to be discolored (including blackening)? Does any of this matter? I do not have any answers, but I will maintain “critical thinking” as I process Bruce’s report on Tena Bar. Respectfully submitted, Sluggo_Monster(Late for work... again!) Im really rushed for time. Coloration of the money is a mixed story. One part was dusting for prints (which was a useless exercise and destroyed evidence). Fragments at Tina Bar is now fact, so far as Im concerned. Tides a major factor in delivery from ... the fact of tides vs flood or high water alone as a delivery mechanism, tells a rich story, and makes a lot of sense in terms of other data. (For me personally this is like trip back into history.). Bruce's report is the smoking gun. He may wind up deserving an award for this.

will have to be Tues night ... usual time.

I think Snowmman was just joking about originating the propeller theory Georger. I don't know anything about the ability of prop "washback" or ship wakes to move things upstream. Perhaps Jerry has seen examples of upriver transport by these methods and can tell us how it operates. I will keep an open mind. 377 Tides. Fazxios say tides. Bruce says,,, and I can believe it. I have wondered about tides a million times ... I dont live there so cant know firsthand. If you recall I asked months about about "any" positive link or route for things appearing at T_Bar ... a place, a time, anything! I had tides in the back of my mind. I think Jo tried to answer this, in actual fact it was JO who brought up tides herself once. Now thanks to Bruce, here we are. Tides straight out of the Fazio's mouth. Tides may be the link to when and how. Now, from where? I can smell a huge debate with Jerry coming up. But tonight-today BRUCE is our hero. What a GREAT report.

Yes God damnit! I am DB Cooper. Hope you liked my post on the origin of the Lewis theory. Tides. If you knew the number of times I have sat in this chair and look at tide data and thought 'tides' and wondered endlessly ... with respect to Tina Bar ... and now here is Bruce's SUPERB! report. Damn. I would have said something earlier but thought I would get ridiculed by MeltingMutant. So I keep it to myself. Thank God for Bruce! He deserves an award. You always said the Fazios had a story! You werent kidding!

One sweet superb report! You earned your spurs with this. You're hired. Tides. Guess Snow-thing just got carried out by one. Its about time. You have developed into a very valuable asset. Congrats and thanks. Its appreciated more than you know.

He is a man who will in the end pull it all together. Georger will abandon the whole thing.

I too have solved the case before lunch, many times. Like Chinese food, it doesnt stick to the ribs and by evening I hunger for a new solution. Was there a butler anywhere? I think the butler did it. That's as good a guess as any I have made. 377 I am now beginning to equate solving this case with, being struck by an asteroid. There are approximately as many assholes and idiots (in this case) as there are asteroid, present company and Sluggo not included.

They may have paid up but YOU did NOT originate the propr theory. It was developed in 1980. How stupid do you thnk we (the world) is?

Your experience in this should be valuable. Im glad you posted the above. But let me provide some context. This is an old theory which H advanced almost as soon as the money turned up at Tina Bar, mainly because the Lewis connects to Lake Merwin which was still being considered the drop zone. I know H discussed this theory with a number of people and the FBI (H?) got several experts to issue opinions (formal reports). Everyone consulted turned thumbs down on the theory, for a number of reasons. But, the latest revsion of this old theory occurred when Tom and Jerry and Larry got together on the Columbia. (Jerry actually posted about prop washback and ship wakes here, briefly, when it was fresh on his mind after the Columbia get-together. Nobody pursued Jerry's comment about it here.) But Jerry mentioned prop washback and ship wakes specifically to Tom, when they were in Washington. Tom may have already considered the idea independently. If the history I have is correct, the theory originated almost immediately after the Ingram find. The theory surfaced among several theories trying to account for how money could have come to Tina Bar ........ from the Lake Merwin area. The issue then worked it way to several experts who issued their opinions via several reports to the FBI. Hydraulist Bradley was one of these. We have mentioned Bradley here before. The Lewis Theory must of course be supported by a suitable flight path, drop point, and winds vrs. other theories based on other fp's and winds etc. It is worth pointing out that The ship wake and prop washback part of this version of Tom's theory could also work in the other direction (from the Washougal), so far as deposition at Tina Bar is concerned. Direction is actually irrelevant except in the reverse (up stream) mode now we have to add proper timing and other factors, because any washdown theory is inherently "complex" whatever form the washdown theory takes. It also depends on where in the Lewis we assume Cooper landed. But Tom has now added a NEW claim: there was no dredge debris deposited at Tina Bar as Larry spent months claiming! The Palmer, Bechly, and Fazio reports ARE ALL WRONG! No dredging debris was placed where the Cooper money was found! Maybe Safe or the Ntl Geo consultant "Snowmman" can explaion all of this to us. Because from this point on I am a student and have little to say. We have experts here who evidently know what is going on. I look forward to their explaining it all to the rest of the world.

Not true. Your ego and your raised leg were nowhere in sight. But thanks! for your contributions to Cooperphaelia. ?? WTF? Then someone is lying to me. I'm not sure who is lying, you or someone else. No matter, I'll get to the bottom of it. I do have a check for consult fees, so I assumed I was working on the project. Maybe I wasn't. Did anyone else get a check? News to me if true. What is also true is the Lewis River - Washback theory is an old theory. Was originally advanced by H and was fully addressed. It requires: ________________. So much for "consultants"! Isn't is strange how everything always comes back to core sampling at Tina Bar - which nobody did. We dont need any "stinkin core samples"!

I wont comment on substance until Tom Kaye has had a chance to come here and comment,explain. etc. Not sure he has plans to do this.

Not true. Your ego and your raised leg were nowhere in sight. But thanks! for your contributions to Cooperphaelia.

I've just returned from watching the NG docu with the Formans and a ton o' their family. I was stunned by the abandonment of the Washougal theory by Ckret, Kaye and the powers that be, and replaced by the propeller theory. (When did they give up on the Washougal? Poor Jerry!) When the docu presented Kaye's theory of a transport of both DB Cooper's body and the money satchel three miles upstream from the confluence of the Lewis-Columbia Rivers up to Tena's Bar - bound up in a freighter's propeller - the room erupted in laughter and hoots. I kept hearing Georger's voice in my head -"Where's the proof!!! (Yes, I heard you G, but I guess you need to shout a little louder to reach Seattle - I'm 61 miles south). The voice-over said that Cooper landed directly in the water, and claimed the Lewis River is 300 feet wide, which will surprise many fishermenwho can tangle their lines easily with guys on the opposite shore. They surmised that Cooper drowned or died of the cold, and inferred that the Lewis is big enough to swallow up a body and a 28-foot chute. I also heard new claims: 1. Kaye says that Tena's Bar was not a site for spoils from the 1974 dredging, that the Bar was located just outside the dredge zone. No proof given, but he was shown stretching out a lot of tape measures, with Larry and the Babe from Chicago standing around. Hence, the position of the dredge-sediment layers are not relevant. That's what I heard, and I don't claim to understand their logic or reasoning. 2. Kaye was featured in the docu. Had as much air time as Ckret. Pictured examining the tie with a high-powered microscope. Said he had found pollen spores but did not reveal any information about them. No discussion about soil or mineral traces, or diatoms. 3. Docu said that 305 was being flown by autopilot and that's how the FBI knows where the plane was - flying directly on its prescribed flight plan course. 4. Although Ron and Pat Forman were not in the movie, half their family was. Several of the actors staged in the re-enactments at Tena’s Bar were Forman people. That impressed me because it indicates Edge West really did spend a lot of time with the Formans, more than I had known, and I covered shoots in several different locations - all suggesting they really liked the Barb Dayton story line. 5. I was in the movie, too! Brief scene from the Ariel Tavern. I’m the guy who was seriously intense and maybe a little smashed (yes) and was saying “BD Cooper was one tough-assed dude.” I had been interviewing the Edge West team and they were buying, so we kept drinking and before I knew it they had a friggin’ camera in my face. Well, the rest is cinematic history… 6. The docu discussed Christenson, but not Duane, and certainly not Gossett. Galen told me last week that the Edge West guys really hounded him to tell his story, but he refused. The docu also discussed Richard McCoy and how the FBI thought for a time that Danny and Dick were one and the same. 7. Himm was quoted as saying DB was a just an old con with a foul mouth, but the voice-over said that “there is little supporting evidence from eye-witnesses to support that claim.” Quite a slap, I thought, to the Keeper of the DB Cooper Official Story. 8. The docu moved briskly for the first 40 minutes and then bogged down. It really dragged for the 40-50 minute segment. I sensed they really had to scramble at the last minute pulling the Dayton stuff out, dumping any Washougal info, and quickly adding the splash down in the Lewis LZ, which had a re-enactment scene to back it up visually. 9. They showed a re-enactment of the jump. Daylight, though, from Perris, California, which I now know about thanks to you guys here on the DZ. I was impressed that the shades stayed on the guy’s face. I didn’t see the loafers fly off either. I looked closely at the flapping money bag, and I really appreciated how much bouncing around it did. It was definitely not stable. They showed the satchel tied in front of the groin or lower tummy, and appeared attached to the rig. Larry, in his video on the FBI site, says Coop made a rope handle and clutched the bag. I guess NG didn’t believe Ckret on this one and he let it go. The parachutist also did a lot of tumbling and rolling to simulate Larry's theory of Coop spinning out of control and panicking. The guy said the NB-8 did a fine job of deploying despite the spins. Again, I took it all to be a little dig at Ckret's pet theory of a bumbling Danny Boy losing it on the way down. There’s probably more, but that’s what I remember at the moment. good report. Let's let Snowboy botch it up from here on. I see he's already hosing the grass.

interracial 3 on 3 porn? georger, I'm shocked! This is how we find out? You tell us? But it got your attention!