georger

I am not sure what my Father's assignment was while he was in the Navy. But he was enlisted approximately 1943ish. I still am waiting for the Naval Training Certificate to be sent/scanned and emailed to me by my niece, but I am still waiting.......... The Navy responded back to my archive request and they cannot find a record of Melvin being in the Navy, that is with the limited information I have. EDIT: I also find this interesting: My Dad was missing two months prior to the hi-jacking. Again....it is hard to miss something that is already gone! If you want to say he lost his job....I guess that would be a clever way of putting it. VW Good find. What Larry basically did was compose several estimates of skills and behavioral traits, and matched those against a data bank of occupational titles which break down into sets of skills & behavioral elements. (There is an FBI class on this and there is a section of the FBI which does nothing but process analytical work like this, with a vast actuarial data base). The core of the technique uses something called the Dictionary of Occupational Titles, developed first for use by the military at the beginning of WWII and began being used by the US-DHHS in the 1950s.

I did! If I had planned on using an American Express I would have been disappointed. On a D.B. Cooper note, I was speaking with a lady at work today who was in the Navy in the early 50's. She remembers some of the veterans wearing parachutes and having minimal jump training when they were assigned to cargo loading. Just a thought. That is a page right of Larry Carr's book ... Im serious. Search here under /cargo loader/.

Dumb me. WHO IS CAP? WHO IS MAC? WHO IS BARFUNKLE? WHO IS THIS ASSHOLE MO'MAR .... ?

No. McCoy did not break his ankle. Correct, just sprained the hell out of it - had to be wrapped by Cpt ________ so he could function in his helo at his guard duty the next day. FBI guys can write and take notes! FBI guys can even walk w/o falling over! FBi guys are house-trained!

Georger would like it. I am lovin this! Go for it! Bring in the media or something real for a change.

If the money bag was at the end of a tether, you would have an "earth-moon" type dynamic system. The only sensible thing would be for Cooper to tie the money bag tightly against his body and that would result in a much simpler dynamic system. nice theoretical point worth considering ... Guru or somebody brought this up very early in the thread with a short discussion of the possible consequences ... much depends on the length of the tether (Moon-earth distance). You cant automatically infer a spin or rotation due to a 21lb mass in the context of other forces acting on the pair (those forces would be dominant) ... one scenario is he gets kocked in the head or face or jaw ??? The pair are decelerating ... much depeds on the length of that tether.

good post!

You know I cant give advice like this but take it to a pharmacy and let them test the calibration - if you got it at a named pharmacy take it there. There should be notes on calibration in the manual.

Jerry. I have huge faithe in skydivers. As a group worldwide, skydivers have already duplicated not only Cooper's jump, but every other peremutation of Cooper's jump, multiple times ... with various results. Think about this. Cooper's jump never need to be duplicated. Skydivers had already duplicated it many times, under all kindsof conditions. From 1971 forward skydivers would duplicate Cooper's jump more... The net result is most skydivers survived, at least I think stats show that result? This is half the reason we are here - to discuss such things. It was good for the FBI and NWA to test 305 the next day. That test was specific and avoided classified issues. But we (and they) already knew the 727 had been used for jumps and cargo drop deliveries many times, in the Vietnam theatre. So there was no real mystery in the (Boeing) knowledge base about the 727's capabilities. Still it was good for the FBI to do their test. It just confirmed what was already known... Thats my answer pending new-better information. Thanks for hanging in there. I know it hasnt been fun. Get some sleep tonight.

Its good to see you guys talking again. Just thot Id say it-

I have no idea - go back to the original post I guess. Its way old news. Have no idea why anyone is still talking about it. Bored I guess. Maybe Sluggo will repost the link if it still exists. But the narrator says he's a county employee. Safecracking is a Clark Co. employee. Safecracking likes making junk videos ... 2+2 = 59854836332634

I tell her about my research and what I am looking for and what I say is basically what I had been telling JT on the phone for 4 yrs but, he hammered at me over and over that we were on I-5 and the Columbia and that nothing else fit what I was telling him. I had only been to WA that one time in 1979 (contrary to his claim I had been to WA several times) and who was I to argue with the MAN on the ground? Plus I had no map that showed the body of water I was looking for. Given everything you've posted here at Dropzone, it doesnt take much imagination to realise you were LOST! when you arrived to meet your Producer in Washington, in 2001. You said you were. The producer finally gave up on you, abandoned you (you say), and only Angel Udell was able to dig you out and "saved me". It doesnt take much imagination to understand that anyone trying to help you would wind up confused and LOST trying to follow your lostness. By your own description the producer got lost trying to follow you, JT got lost and could make no sense of your gibberish, and as a matter of fact others you acknowledge you contacted got lost and confused also - except you refuse to release the names of those people ... JT was not the reason for your "lostness". How can you expect anyone to follow you when you yourself are lost? Quite frankly, I would label your whole case as being LOST. 2851 posts of LOST. Can anyone save you? No. I suspect that if Blevins tries to write a book explaning your claims, he will wind up lost also. Blevins likes getting lost. Its his destiny.

Is Farflung a Clark Co. employee? A Clark County employee did the DORKZONE video? Listen to the video again.

I'm sick of the Cooper thing and moving on. It's kept AB stuck in a rut and frankly I'm tired of all the arguments. I'm asking Quade to close my account or whatever he does. I can still be contacted through the AB website if you wish, but this is my last post on this thread. It's been fun, but I have to do this. Good luck with the book of Jo! Im sure Jo will keep filling us in in your presence. Say hello to Brad Steiger and Sherry at the UFO convention.

Who happens to be the most logical thus far…. What does a purser do (what would Kenny have done)_ especially as it relates to money ? G.

You are right about it being Keyboard talk, because I was upset about his continued childlike behavior not only toward me, but to others. As for being the most dispicable man on Earth - I will apologize for and refine the description to read as the Most Despicable Man I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. I have NOT met Jerry in person and I do NOT want to. The inmate smoke jumpers picture was on the WEB in 2000. I found the other articles I printed about that time about the Nickles on a thread strangely enough called DZ. I was keying in Smokejumpers, forestry rangers and prisons when I came across the picture. I contacted Doug about it - but he couldn't find it. I had a problem with my printer and was unable to print the picture when it was up... I swear it was there - I did not imagine it. Like yourself I do miss the days of discovery and the provocative new information continuely coming our way. Any of us who want to see this solved during our time on this earth loved the information - good or bad, but the bickering that has transpired in the last 2 yrs has gotten out of hand. Blevins is a GOOD example of someone presenting his subject without slamming anyone. He has taken the suggestions about getting the facts correct in regards to the basic information on the case - and at a relative pretty steep price I am sure. I admire him for what he has done, but Christiansen was not Cooper. My opinion is based only on my personal experience with Weber as NO one can explain away what I held in my hands and was told and shown by Weber other than to say I am delusional. I have to couple the above with the background of Weber the FBI seems to want to go away...and the fact they have refused to look at the facets and time frames of his life I feel are KEY factors to the secret past he had. I agree with that one whole heartedly - but SNOW and JT in one forum would create a WAR like no one has ever seen. I have often wonder what else Snow has to contribute - because there was something about the man I liked. I had a gut feeling he actually knew something about this crime and/or Weber. After Snow was gone I received some information I had never seen - and was told NO one would believe me if I ever tried to link the information to Weber. This information fit things I vowed never to talk about regarding Duane's relationships from the 60's...and the damage this caused. The information was specific and only someone who knew Duane could possibly have made these specific links because I have NOT talked about them and never will due to damage they created. I would discuss these with the authorities if they ever see it fit to really listen to me and there are currently parties still alive who might verify these "things" with the FBI if they could be assured what they had to say would never be made public nor their identity. Do not call this a tease or try to get me talk about it - this is something I have buried deep inside of me and will never expose others to harm. It doesn't prove Duane was Cooper, but it sure sets the stage and it makes connections that the FBI needs to explore and the only reason it is important. I am still waiting for a reply about what I did a couple of wks ago and thank you about the suggestion regarding the slides, but I think it is something over my head. There will be a narrative to accompany this, but I don't want it to be my very annoying Ky twang. All my adult have tried to loose it and nothing works. When I find someone to do this it will be made public and that is how I will leave it. It will be up to others to pick-up the mission or bury it. I wanted to make a tape about the "secret" stuff I don't talk about, but fear that could fall into the hands of someone like JT who would think nothing of destroying the lives of those I have protected. I think I have about said what has to be said now. NO this is not Keyboard talk here - just me trying to figure out how to leave things...and how to do it without hurting anyone...now or in the future. Leaving it to the authorities is like NOT leaving anything at all. My final WISH. To go back to WA and have the time and the money and the health to finish what I started. To spend time in Idaho to find the secret Duane had there. It is all in the Spokane, Couer'd Alene, Bittercreek and then on down to a small place near Bend, OR. Somewhere someplace there are pictures of Duane in those areas - sitting in some archive are records of a young man who called himself "Dusty". This would be a nickname he may have used because of the tattoo on his arm. All sounds like a self referencing mobius loop to me. The mobius loop is a closed system where outside influence is redirected and blocked. All thought must travel along a single surface indefinitely, since there is no edge in the direction of movement. Discussion with such people is impossible, literally. The system can run continuously delivering constant output of self referencing data, and nothing else. http://scidiv.bellevuecollege.edu/math/mobius.html

I'm not going to sit here and claim I know everything or that I am right about KC. My gut tells me we're onto something, but there isn't enough to say FOR SURE, without a doubt, otherwise we'd already be in People magazine. I am a big believer in fair play. It's as simple as that. I went over your 25 points. Most I find to be pure speculation on your or someone's part, that don't even rise to the level of circumstantial evidence, due mainly to the lack of any known association with the Cooper case as I know it. Maybe the FBI will think otherwise but I doubt it. In fact, my opinion is, the FBI will have an even stronger negative opinion. I am being very conservative and charitable here, in my thinking. The single most interesting item is the photo. It could be a prank. It could be a coincidence. It could be an intentional prank meant to convey exactly what it shows, like a Halloween stunt, and if that was the case then obviously KC was not Cooper but an intentional spoof of DB Cooper. Kenny was an employee of the airline and a member of the community - he knew about the hijacking and was probably as mystified as anyone else. Many people spoofed Cooper in the aftermath, but you claim a more sinister connection and fail to prove it. The physical traits don't match. To borrow a phrase* 'The closest they match is they were both male'. And, not all physical traits were released to the public - that can work in your favor or against you visi-a-vis Kenny. The original sketches were carefully drawn and tested against witnesses ... Tie and tie tac: Those objects have traits which are probably not compatable with KC. These objects could be exculpatory. And to save you and Jo Weber time speculating, I am not talking about dna. DNA is a separate issue. G.

I am taking te night off - I need the silence.

Excuse me for living, Mr Jerry. Anytime you have any proof that Ken Christiansen was just a 'made up suspect' I'm sure you'll let me know. I will be back later to repost my 25 Reasons We Think KC was the Hijacker stuff. You asked for it. Oh, here we go. I found them. 25 Best Reasons We Believe Ken Christiansen Could Be D.B. Cooper 1) The House - Although his tax records show Kenny made an average of $6,000 a year or less prior to the hijacking, he paid $16,500 in cash for a house in Bonney Lake, Washington within eight months of the crime. He bought this house from Joe Grimes, who was a friend of the alleged accomplice. A year later he got the adjoining lot for an additional ten dollars. 2) The Loan - The sister of the alleged accomplice (Dawn J) admitted both to the authors and to the History Channel that she received a $5,000 cash loan from Kenny five months after the hijacking to put a down payment on her own house. By the time Christiansen bought his own house for cash a few months later, he had already spent more than three times his annual income within nine months of the crime - while his records show he had little or nothing in the bank. 3) The Lost Weekend - In October of 2010, Helen Jones of Sumner, Washington testified that both Kenny and Bernie were supposed to come to Thanksgiving dinner at her house in 1971 (weekend of the crime), along with Bernie's wife Margaret. But only Margaret showed up, and she was highly pissed at her missing husband. When Bernie returned a few days later, he said he'd been out camping, but wouldn't say who he was with. Helen Jones found out later that he was with Kenny Christiansen. When the History Channel interviewed Bernie, they asked him where he was that weekend. He refused to answer. 4) The Tie-Tac - Witness 'Dawn J,' the recipient of the five thousand dollar loan from Christiansen, identified a tie-tac from an FBI picture as one she had seen Christiansen wear sometimes. The picture shows the famous J.C. Penney clip-on tie and tie tac left behind on the plane by the hijacker. And she identified it before she was told that Kenny was being investigated, or before anything regarding D.B. Cooper or the hijacking was discussed. In addition, when the tie was found by the F.B.I. they noticed the tie tac had been slipped across the tie from the left side, indicating the wearer was probably left-handed. Christiansen was left-handed. 5) Chute Selection - Just before the hijacker jumped from the plane he made a choice. There was a newer sport chute available to him, and an older, military-type chute packed in an NB-6 ('Navy Backpack 6') container. He chose the NB-6, which points more to a man who hadn't jumped in a very long time, and who was probably ex-military. 6) The Picture - After Kenny's death, a strange picture was discovered in one of his old photo albums, hidden behind another picture. It shows Kenny walking in through the front door of his apartment in Sumner dressed similarly to the hijacker, and carrying a briefcase and a paper bag, the same type of items carried on board the flight by the hijacker. A time stamp on the front by the developer reads 'February 1972'. The wreath on the door indicates it was probably snapped around Christmas 1971 - or about three weeks after the crime. We believe it is a sort of staged mememto. 7) The Clippings Folder - One of the things the Christiansen family found after Kenny's death in 1994 was a folder full of newspaper clippings about Northwest Airlines. The first one is from his early days on Shemya Island. The last is an article from the summer of 1971, about five months before the hijacking. Although the Cooper hijacking was the biggest thing to ever happen to the airline, Kenny clipped nothing about it. 8) Dear Mom and Dad - Kenny's letters home to Minnesota were examined. Many contain the same theme. He was unhappy with the airline. He was broke all the time. He was out on strike again. He was digging ditches or picking apples to make ends meet. Literally. 9) Smoking Is Bad For You - The book itself was the subject of an episode on the History Channel show Brad Meltzer's Decoded. It was during the filming in Bonney Lake that Robert Blevins did two interviews with Helen Jones, a woman who had known Kenny very well. She said she remembered he smoked Raleigh cigarettes. 'I know because he saved the coupons...' Although Jones didn't realize it, this was the same brand of cigarettes smoked by the hijacker. The F.B.I. saved the butts from the ashtray he used. 10) Easy Money - A lot of people have asked how come the ransom money hasn't turned up except for the $5,800 found in 1980 on the banks of the Columbia River near Tena Bar. Easy answer: No one was actually looking for it. In a radio interview from 2008, Special Agent Larry Carr admitted that most banks found it overwhelming to compare their incoming twenties from the 34-page list of 10,000 non-sequential numbers. The majority of them abandoned this effort within three-to-six months after the hijacking. This means the money was more-or-less cold, and would be easy to launder after that time. 11) Don't Piss Off Your Ex - Part 1 - We alleged that Bernie was Christiansen's accomplice, and at the time of the crime he was married to Margaret Miller. Margaret is a veteran of the Iditarod and was the first woman to ever drive four draft horses abreast by herself. In five interviews between January and August of 2010, she consistently pointed to Bernie as an accomplice in the hijacking. However, she was very good friends with Ken Christiansen, and denied that he could have been involved. But after Robert Blevins presented her with a photo collage that contained famous pictures of the hijacking combined with pictures of Christiansen, she hung it in her kitchen. 12) 'Kenny Left Us HOW Much?' - When Kenny's estate was settled after his death, he had $186,276 in savings at the West One Bank in Sumner, Washington. He had an additional $24,501 in his checking account. His tax records from after the hijacking show that although he was making more money than before the hijacking, he never filed more than $20,000 a year on his tax returns. The authors don't think these funds were the actual ransom, but more from land investments using the money he extorted from the airline. 13) Don't Piss Off Your Ex - Part 2 - In her second interview up in Twisp, Washington, Margaret Miller pulled out a box of tugboat logs that came from a tug her ex-husband had worked on from about 1968 to 1975. The log from 1971 was missing. When Robert Blevins asked her where it was, she said her ex had broken into her home a few weeks after Kenny's death and stolen it, along with some photo books and personal papers. Coincidentally, the log could have shown that Bernie was not at work the weekend of the hijacking - and he drove nearly 400 miles each way to get it. Margaret Miller still has hasps and padlocks installed on some of the interior doors of the house, even today. 14) Are You Sure This Will Work? - How did the hijacker know that dropping the rear airstairs in flight would not change the flight characteristics and cause the jet to roll, invert, or crash? Because Boeing Aircraft tested this before the 727 was released. Bernie worked at Boeing during this time. Before that, he worked for Northwest Airlines, and later he went to Northwest again for a while. And at the time of the hijacking, he was working for Foss Tugs, but he may have offered Kenny a little advice on how a mid-flight escape could actually succeed. 15) Kenny Who? - Although Bernie gave extensive details on the relationship between he and Christiansen to the authors, he tried to change his story after History Channel contacted him. He told them he hardly knew Kenny and thought he was a dishwasher. Then he called up his sister 'Dawn J' and asked her to deny everything she had testified for the book. When the producers of Decoded presented photographs and other evidence to him, he admitted he was friends with Christiansen for more than thirty years and that Kenny had attended his wedding in 1968 to Margaret Miller. He was also interviewed for Decoded. He called Robert Blevins a liar, the book 'a work of fiction,' and refused to reveal his whereabouts over Thanksgiving 1971. 16) The Lifestyle Change - Before the hijacking, Kenny dressed neatly and conservatively. For the rest of his life after the crime, he mostly dressed in coveralls when he was off-duty at the airline. Most people in Bonney Lake thought he was a farmer. 17) The Silent One - For the next year after the hijacking, everyone at Northwest Airlines was abuzz about the taking of Flight 305. Everyone except Kenny, that is. Interviews done with his co-employees had a common theme: He never said a word about it, and stopped attending the union meetings as well. 18) It's For Camping, Dear - Shortly before the hijacking, Bernie purchased a station wagon from a car lot in Elma, Washington and an Airstream trailer at a bank repo sale. He only used it once, and that was when he and Kenny vanished on the Thanksgiving weekend of the hijacking. It sat on his property until a year later, when he lent it to Helen Jones' family to use after they had a house fire. When the Jones' house was repaired, he sold it to a buyer who took it to Arizona. 19) Just Doing His Job - When Margaret Miller finally saw the book and realized the extent of the evidence against Christiansen, she sent a strange letter to the office of Adventure Books of Seattle. In one paragraph, she claims that even if Kenny were aboard Flight 305 that day, he wasn't hijacking the plane. He was probably just doing his normal job as the purser. The AB staff had no clue what to make of her statement. 20) Coins and Stamps - One of the things Kenny had in his estate was a large collection of stamps and gold coins. It was valued at around $300,000 (1994 dollars) and left to his family in Minnesota. The authors discovered that most of it was ordered by mail over the years through a P.O. box he rented down in Sumner, although Kenny had moved to Bonney Lake shortly after the hijacking. 21) No, Margie...We're Not - At the end of her second interview in Twisp, Margaret Miller ran out to Robert Blevins' car as he was leaving. She stopped him and said: 'You're not going to make Kenny look bad, are you? No matter what he may have done, he was still a nice guy...' We didn't. We considered Christiansen a basically nice guy who had taken enough from the airline, and just decided to stick it to his employer. 22) An Airline Employee? Certainly not! - At the beginning of the Cooper investigation, the F.B.I. arbitrary decided it couldn't have been done by an airline employee, so they never tried looking to see if it could have been an inside job. Back in 1971, airline employees were viewed like the people who worked for Pan Am in the film Catch Me If You Can. It just never occurred to the Bureau that anyone from the airline could have been involved. Even Helen Jones said she was surprised Bernie and Kenny were never questioned. This scenario turned out to be a good thing for Christiansen. 23) The Role of the Accomplice - On the Decoded program, we demonstrated how Bernie and Kenny may have pulled off the crime. Bernie and Christiansen drove the Airstream and the wagon to Portland, where Kenny was dropped off at the airport. Then Bernie returned and camped right off the freeway at Paradise Point State Park near Battleground, Washington and waited for Kenny to hike out of the woods. Most of the estimated drop zones are less than twenty miles from the interstate, and there are scores of Forest Service roads, river trails, and paved roads leading back to the freeway. Coincidentally, the place where they found the money in 1980 was just a bit downriver from the park. 24) I Have An Alibi - During the first half of his interview with Robert Blevins, the alleged accomplice thought Blevins was only doing a general bio on Christiansen and not investigating the hijacking. When Blevins revealed the true nature of the book, Bernie claimed that when he worked for Foss Tugs he was gone 'ten or eleven months' out of the year. However, a senior executive at Foss said most employees were only out for a week or two at a time, and no more than two or three months for the ocean-going tugs. In that case, those employees then received substantial time off after they returned. Watson didn't work on the ocean tugs. We checked. 25) The Description - One of the big knocks on Kenny as a Cooper suspect has been the eyewitness descriptions. Although they varied a bit, most people thought he was five-ten to six feet, and weighed about 180. Kenny was five-eight and weighed about 170 pounds. Also, the hijacker had hair, while Kenny was very thin on top. But in her 2010 interview, witness 'Dawn J' testified that Kenny sometimes wore a toupee. Not on the job, she said. Just socially. She added she never saw him wear it again after the hijacking. A 1972 article from the Bremerton Sun said that the F.B.I. had reason to believe Cooper was bald, although they wouldn't say why. They fanned out around Bremerton questioning people and investigated a local wig and toupee shop. When no good leads surfaced, they abandoned the effort and moved on with the investigation. As far as the general descriptions of Cooper, there are a few things to consider. First, it might be tricky to tell someone's true height and weight unless you see them out in the open, not in the confines of a jet airliner. Second, we think Kenny looks a lot like the hijacker and that the witnesses were just a little off. Even with all these things, which only cover a portion of the evidence, we cannot say with certainty that Ken Christiansen was D.B. Cooper. But when people ask us how much chance there is that he was the hijacker, we say we're about 85-95% sure of it. Forget whether this is a statistically viable evidence list or not . . . Are you proud of it? At least you have several people contributing their biases to your list. Jo is the sole claimant on her list. Duane was dead and never left any tangible evidence - nada. Jo is solely responsible for her list. Jo would have it no other way, so as to retain control! Aint myth making great!

Jo, just checking in on your recent tease. When will you deliver or do us the courtesy of cancelling it? 377 When Hell freezes over and you are being pulled stiff as a board out of some Snowbank with Jo laughing warm and cozy on the next internet forum, in Florida?

"I wouldn't piss in a bottle for Larry Carr - he has NO jurisdition in the Cooper CASE." Sounds like Duane talking . . . Sure does doesn't it!

County worker in the same area as . . . You aint no county worker near VCVR !

During these yrs, I was talking "PRIVATELY" to the FBI, Himmelsbach, Jerry and making enquires of friends and relatives and ex-wives...but there was NOT a peek to the media. Really? Tell the rest of the story Jo. Name all those you contacted. But the list is so long you will not even remember! SURELY! There is somebody you have forgotten to NAME in your 2839 posts here at Dropzone, feuding with Jerry which is the same as feuding with Himmelsbach, etc. etc. etc ? Who have you intentionally left out that might be important to your .... story. That's just your Nature, Jo. Liek this, the real Jo. "I wouldn't piss in a bottle for Larry Carr - he has NO jurisdition in the Cooper CASE." Sounds like Duane talking . . .

My money was on Farflung or Carr. Mine is on Safecracking since the music was the same dorky genre he used in his Through the Lens of the Oracle, video ...

I must be a Polyanna. I snowmman Here is the ONLY SOLUTION! STOP THE THREAD UNTIL 377 GETS HIS WAY! AND SNOWMMAN COMES BACK - Since the tread cannot exist wthout 377 and Snowmman?