georger

What Jo is describing as a mountain does indeed look like a mountain to her since the road she drove on to The Bridge of the Gods is WA HWY 14 in the Columbia River Gorge... which to someone from Florida where the greatest elevation of 345 feet, the road and its surrounding topography does indeed look "mountainous". . And Duane looks to her like DB Cooper ? So what!? Who cares? It does make this group look damned silly! Being lead around by some crazed old lady who cant tell a mountain from a mole hill. And Jo GOES HYSTERICAL about the failings of others? Gag me with a HIPPOPONTOMOUS! Now Jo will charge us all being being liars and misrepresenting her, and being out of touch! I see a pattern there. The Jo Weber Enablers meeting will be in the Ga Ga Nui Room No.27 at 7:00pm tonight as per the regular schedule.

This will all become clear in the fullness of time. But I HAD to use the moment to wet some appetites.

Georger, It was estimated that the 3 bundles that were found contained approximately $2,000 each. So if each bundle contained $2000, there would only be 97 bundles missing. And those 97 bundles would weigh a total of about 21 or 22 pounds. SORRY - 97 NOT 997 OR 999999997.

Jerry, stop horsing around and upload the the transcripts or the tapes. As others have stated you can upload the audio to plenty of online sites. Why are you dodging the issue? kinda makes you look like a fraud. You always accuse Jo of being a liar. Be a man, step up to the plate and show us your evidence. Something everyone needs to understand. When I contacted Himmelsbach he put me intouch with JT as the man on the ground who wpuld know the places I was describing. Regardless of what I describe - Jerry would claim it was this or that - I argued and argued with him over the phone. After 4 yrs of that I just went with the FLOW. I had only been to WA that one time in 1979 with my husband. Regardless of how I tried to describe what I saw - he would say it did NOT exist. When I explained that we were on the WA side and had crossed after we left The Dalles he kept telling me we were on the Portland side even though I told him we crossed after we left the Dalles. In The Dalles area - Duane told me about an airport on the other sided of the river - got the impression he had flown in and out of there. He tells me about Goldendale and a place the GUYS used to go. He tells me about Yakima and Indian Reservation (they had done some jobs there).. He talks about an airstrip on or near the reservation - military - moving equipment. I can't remember the sequence anymore, but there are earlier accounting when I was not as stressed as I have been lately and my memory is not getting clogged with time and information provided after the fact. Shortly after we crossed the Columbia (I now know from my trip in 2010 that was the Bridge of the God) he told me about Indian grave sites off to our Right - pointing N.E. He told me about a road that used to be above where the present road was and some caves along the old road (I did not find this on my trip as things had changed). Also I was making the trip in the reverse. He talkes about Trout Lake and we actually stopped at Bonneville Dam - I didn't remember this until I was out there in 2010 this last yr. I got out and walked in the same places Duane and I walked upon all of those yrs ago. As we go on down to the road he tells me it is all hills and ridges. I remember trying to dose off - I AM AFRAID of ROADs with STEEP sides - Fortunately for me they were on his side and that is the side I tried to focus on. When I was in WA in Oct of 2010 this last yr. I had to drive that same road from Washougal to the Bridge of the GODS. I was terrified and I was driving this mountaineous terrain. I had to pull off several times to let traffic pass and will never forget the dirty gross bathroom I had to use going down the East slope. I was making that part of the trip backwards from the way he and I had come. It was on this day I actually walked around at the Dalles just as he and I had done many yrs ago - only a visual revisit could cause one to remember those kinds of things. At any rate going West on 14 toward Washougal he makes a comment - "I missed my turn" and then suddenly he realized they had four laned the approach to his target. I had grabbed the atlas and I thougt we were at Camas. Now I know we were in Washougal. I had tried to no avail to explain this to JT for yrs. We go North into Washougal - and that story has been told so many times there is NOT need for me to retell it. All of this has been told and as I get older it gets harder and harder. The only map I had seen was what was on a Osha map that was 1/2 of the United States and a page in the Atlas. I did NOT have a detailed map of WA until I returned from the 2001 trip in which JT had instructed the crew where to take me - every which way but right. The young man was driving so fast it scared me - there was not time for me to focus and think. There were 2 other individuals in the vehicle. There were cameras and questions - I only do well one on one or couple with couple. This whole trip except for the last day was a shambles - as it was designed to be. Back to Washougal. I told about the cemtery, the Washougal river which JT insisted could NOT be on my Left. I told about the place I thought was a river - it was wide so not the Washougal. JT insisted Duane turned me around and we were back on the Columbia - I argued - that I knew what the Columbia looked like and we were not on the Columbia. Since I did NOT have a detailed map I knew nothing of a lake in the area and assumed we were on the Washougal....which we did go to later. I told Jerry this water was quiet and wide and it was NOT the Washougal because Duane took me to the Washougal after we left this point. This is when I talk about the Hill and the caretaker and the point Duane made a remark and the only time I took a physical note of a road. A road I would not remember until I was in WA in 2001 with the crew...the day after they left and with an undercover cop and 3 other women. He went to the area - the Angel Undell had indicated and I insisted on (he had other places he wanted me to see). We are riding along and I tell him after we crosse the bridge in Washougal to make a Left. I did NOT know we were crossing the bridge. I asked the driver what was on our Left and he told me the Washougal River - I immediately said - JT told me there was NO way for the Washougal to be on my left. I won't go any further with this because the story has been told in this thread many many times and JT insisted for from the time I contacted him in 1996 at the request of Himmelsbach and until I was in WA. in 2001 with witnesses - that I was NOT on the Washougal. JT until that trip in 2001 had done everything in his power to convince me I was NOT in Washougal. He kept telling me I was ON the South side of the Columbia and no matter what I said he would NOT take NO for an answer. YOU guys have witnessed this in the forum. I argued and argued with him about the points. He claimed I was on I-5. Yes, Duane did point a covert on I-5 under the highway to a place the guys used to hangout. But this was in reference to the Power lines and Pipe lines. The first place was on Lake LaCames and the place Duane made the commen. Duane also talked about the caretake of a mansion on this "river" which was NOT a river. The FBI never ever checked this one out....because JERRY told them I was talking about someplace else. This is also where my little MOUNTAIN was and everyone here knows that JT has denied this - he knew what I was talking about in 1996 - the trees at the top, with a wire fence and wood gate and the large rock and trees. The Point at which Duane told me about the power lines and the pipe lines intesecting and that where they crossed you could walk all the way to the Columbia and there was a Marina there. Duane told me about a farm arcross the lake and we drove over there but he did NOT get out - he told me the man who lived there had a son about his age. I now know that name to be BAFUS (I thought Duane said Rufus because I have an uncle by that name and he corrected me it was a F not an F. There were brothers - one was deceased and the other was in a nursing home with OLD TIMERS when I found them in 2010 - ten yrs too late. This is connected to the grave Duane told me about. NO more about that one to a soul...but, JT knows what I am talking about. The FBI would never listen and they didn't care. Shit! BREAK OVER! INTRUDER IS BAAAAAAAAAAAK TO DISRUPT! Thi actually fits with my post above! Forces in nature round things off. Jo Weber is a force in Nature! Let the rounding begin!

Jo just rants and shuts down any useful line of enquiry. Can you tell I am getting heartily sick of this. so lets take the break to get back to the Cooper case. Money at Tina Bar - flotation. Perspective. Prior to Tom, Safe did some flotation tests, and I guess Jerry has done some? But it doesnt take much of a test to find out that wet paper sinks. And the concept that unloosened bundles would send individual bills fluttering like leaves 10,000 different directions in a fluid flow, doesnt strike me as much of a discovery either? So perhaps a change in terminology gets us something better, because it is more indicative of reality in this situation? I would scrap 'flotation' or floated to Tina Bar, in favor of 'transported' or 'conveyed' to Tina Bar. Thus the money was 'conveyed or transported' to Tina Bar, by a number of methods during the money's existence before it wound up on Tina Bar in the condition found? This slight change in terms results in a different focus which is probably more indicative of what really happened, in my opinion. Two facts are very likely. A number of forces worked on the money (not just one), and the transportation or conveyance of the money and its condition as found, were not the result of one-single-force (or act) but many forces working over time; even if the money sat at Tina Bar from day-1 until 1980 and found. Multiples forces still are the reality. Because: unless the found bundles were something as specific a a group of bundles DC stuffed in his coat pocket, separated from the rest of the bundles, then the 3 bundles found are part of some 1000 bundles which existed in a container as DC jumped. How do only three bundles turn up 9 years later at Tina Bar vs the 997 other bundles which were not found? And the condition of the money is explained by what? One agent thought it was bundles rolling along in the current. Side over side? End over end? (When physics states that 'square things left in nature tend to be rounded off - corners lost first and most'); and the unintuitive part is 'whether static or moving'! Forces in nature are not static but moving so all an object has to do to be 'rounded' is just sit there, while the forces moving in nature do their work. I am surprised Palmer or somebody didn't point that simple fact of Nature out ? Its a fundamental pattern (and fact) in Nature. Let me leave this at a general level for now.

Yeah, I know, but tabloids do serve a function. I need to know if Jennifer Anniston is pregnant. I need to know if Angelina is cheating on Brad, or vce versa. That info is available nowhere else. Indeed, because contrary to popular opinion (or desire), many papers actually like to print the truth Me, I'm on the fence. I understand wanting to give credit to Bruce. On the other hand, I look at the paparazzi photos of Tina and think... this is exactly why this story has ended up in a tabloid. People here say tabloids serve a function because people who otherwise would never read newspapers, do. Me, given the crap they write here (which makes the Daily Mail look like the Guardian) think it actually might be better if they didn't read anything Is Dropzone a tabloid? Is NPR's Science Friday a tabloid? Is amateur astronomy a tabloid vs. professional astronomy ? Are pharmaceutical ads on TV a tabloid?

Be careful! Jo calls them WHITE LIES. White lies are not 'lies' ??? These were not white lies. They were told to try protect a vindictive woman from the scorn she fully deserves. I am livid. Understand.

This also means you have blatantly lied in the past about this. Trying to justify it now just makes you look worse, not better. Be careful! Jo calls them WHITE LIES. White lies are not 'lies' ??? Jo has made herself exempt from the common standard.

The publication of FBI agents' opinions in public media complicate cases. The opinion of the agent becomes a matter of record - hence myth or theory becomes fact and/or so entertwined the facts become obscured. Are you stating this as FACT or your personal opinion? How in hell do you know!? Who appointed you the authority to decide!? You attacked Larry for one single reason: because he undercut your ability to maneuver and prosecute your bullshit here at Dropzone, after the Moderator refused to intercede and Moderate you! You attack anyone and everyone who undermines your claims, according to your perception. You even say Duane asked you to "STOP" before he died! Obviously you decided todo otherwise and came up with an excuse to continue. Your whole case is one pile of excuses piled on top of the last pile of excuses. And, if Duane Weber was not DB Cooper then what is all of this for?

I may have stated sarcastically that I got Carr fired. The written word does not inflect emotions.. Thanks for your admission - finally! You broke the news - no one else. Your announcement caused a lot of people to scramble to find out from Larry and the FBI what was going on. As for the rest of your venomous allegations which disrupt and harm people's lives while you laugh behind the scenes - it defines your credibility and your motives, as well as 'your' credentials and your stories claiming a Cooper suspect. That you would go to such lengths is a story in its own right.

It's a small thing, that article. But Butler is completely anonymous at Amazon. I had no other recourse but to go outside, as they say. I hope he chokes on it. I havent the faintest idea whot his Butler is and dont really care to know, but I appreciate your comments. I will return the favor. Im astounded! Thanks! G.

Now there is the proper way to "neutralise" somebody! Namely me. I take it with grace. Maybe Blevins has some smarts after-all; I'm astounded and pleased! Thank you, sir. (Holy Moses! Maybe I can make it into the White Shrine after all, Torah and all?)

As Mr. Green noted, there are free upload sites where you can upload as much as 5 gb, maybe more. Esnips, fileden, filefactory are examples. Way too many to list. It's pretty easy - You upload the material to the upload website then you post a link to that website so others can access it. Free means ads usually, no biggie, but of course all of them have premium memberships. I have used fileden before for video files and mp3s. It works great. I can upload Jo's email to me about having SA Larry Carr fired - if you like !? Wont take any 5 gb. I am sure Jerry appreciates your 'help' but a major issue in this whole debacle is 'control', isn't it. And who has been controlling and seeking to control. There is a fine line between control and help. Maybe you should not give the appearance of controling also? Especially in favor of one party, when you dont know the history? Just a suggestion based on experience here.

I kept thinking Hahara, but Sahara might be it. . Now Duane was -- JEWISH!? oy vey! Hahara, but Sahara. Maybe Haaretz. You actually enjoy this mashugana gevalt! I see a pattern - ATTENTION! Threats - Lawsuits - Dirty Triks - How many miles do you get per broom?

I know that Duane had connections with forestry and he had the training for forestry - and I expect that had to do with the prison system in some way. I know none of that for fact - but, there was no conceivable reason for him to lie to me...he just always omitted prisons. . swinging a broom or a rake... Jo you are throwing the word "forestry" around like it was Bud Lite. In the end it will be you picking up the bar tab, for everyone! Nothing is free in this life for anyone.

Have fun. Take Shelly along.

Make that 300 kb, not 200 mb .... for photos. Anything else I am not sure of.

To put Duane or any other prisoner in a smoke jumper's chute would assume that they had experience or training in fire fighting. That alone makes the whole scenario a bit of a stretch. An easy test has been available all along. Ask the US Forest Service! Jo should present her claims to the US Forest Service on a national stage and see how long her claims last and the reaction! But Jo would never do that! Its one thing to present her stuff daily on this Unmoderated Forum where she can have her way - quite another to make her charges in the real world. And Jo is totally aware of the difference. The only reason Jo Weber practizes here is because she is enabled and allowed to - Jo Weber would not even make it to first base on Websleuths, for example, because it is Moderated. End of story. Fini.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Cooper is actually a very small part of my work, and it certainly isn't my life. well Toodleloo, for the 37th time. See you ta'marra. Oy vey!

Are you kidding or what? Come on Georger, you are engaging in personal bashing here, and your statement doesn't match the facts. Not even remotely. Let's discuss Gray first. A regular contributor to the New York Magazine, a former writer for the friggin' New York Times! A published author to boot with a best-selling book. My humble contributions to journalism and writing in general: Five published books, and so many edited for other writers that I lost track of how many exactly, but it's probably more than 40. Some were complete book packaging jobs, which is where you take someone's raw manuscript and make a finished title with an ISBN out of it. Nearly FIVE HUNDRED ILLUSTRATED ARTICLES posted to Newsvine/MSNBC column at adventurebooks dot newsvine dot com. That column receives an average of 250,000 visits each year. During the last Presidential election, it was close to a half-million a year. (Due to Obama-oriented articles) Each month, I still receive PayPal deposits from MSNBC Interactive even if I don't publish an article that month, due to the high number of visits to all articles. This will go on forever, or until they decide to close the site. Bruce: He is getting better, no doubt of it. And I am not in Gray's league by any means, but Bruce has a ways to go before he can be accepted as a journalist, or somehow classified as more professional than either myself, or especially Geoff Gray. Bruce has produced some things important - you have not. Bruce has produced some thing more important than anything Gray as produced, from my perspective. Bruce's writing has a logic that strikes deep at times. Gray and especially you do not have that in anything I have ever read of 'yours'. Bruce provides MEAT to the family. You and Gray provide a few mushrooms some of which are even poisonous!. Luckily we have survived with only belly aches. Who provides the best food to the tribe? Who is the best provider and who knows where to find the food that counts? Who has the better map?

I would go with Tina's description in the Transcripts. Why? Because it is the only 'official' statement you can refer to. By official I mean 'documentable'. Everything else is he-said vs she-said as translated by some reporter, and the Cooper story if full of that. It always comes down to peer-review and documentation. Flo saw it? Tina saw it? If you believe some Scott saw it? All with slightly different descriptions except for one common feature: sticks were red no matter how arranged. That is what H focused on in his opinion: the bomb is a fake and in H's experience that probably was a predictable response. An explosives expert might have had a different opinion based on some broader experience than H's ? But, nobody rushed Cooper based on the assumption his bomb was a 'certified' fake. H didnt even recommend that! Geof Gray now prresents a new version of how and from whom the 'Cossey parachutes' were obtained. But Geof drops this revelation as an anecdote and he doesn't explain or finish the story. So whose version is factually correct on that point? I dont have the faintest idea what the full story is, or if it even matters. We had a friend of Cossey's come to this forum and gave us a semi-authoritative version of how and from whom Cossey's chutes were obtained, I thought. But Gray now provides new facts? So whose version is correct cocnerning Cossey's chutes? I guess Gray will straighten all of that out in his Symposium? He sure as hell isnt going to come here and explain anything - and risk losing control of his "information" or noninformation, as the case may be. On another topic, we have always known what stews do on an airplane - they are essentially managers of people and situations. Just behind the mechanical elements of a plane and those working the controls and flying the plane, the stews are the next most critical element in 'controling' the environment inside the plane. Gray's book gives some insight into how that management occurred and just who did what, if his accounts are believable.

4000 ft ABOVE 305, during one period... so its wx records vs. Himms-Bohan. Why arent there other people's reports in the record? There are. The Transcripts for one. Why did the pilots all stay silent on this topic? What did the CBS news report? Why has Gray avoided this topic in his 'classic record'? More questions than answers, as usual. Why all these questions over something as simple as the weather! Plus nobody! has ever commented on the fact this hijacking occured during the daily cooling cycle from day to night when winds do .... what ... in this area... during this time of year ... Larry presented the wx records from the file. More will be said on this 'fucked up subject' later, after the anniversary/writer's debacle. Tom's group may speak to it also ? But why all this confusion in the first place! That's what I want to know.

I've mentioned this repeatedly to Bruce Smith his research only shows what he wants it to. Jerry That's a very accurate statement regarding Bruce, if he will take it - This is what I mean by he needs to consolidate and focus his talent, ie. his interests. Otherwise he winds up being a Jack of all trades and Master of none. Mastering a craft usually happens by mastering one's self!

One further question for Bruce. Why did he switch to "journalism"? Easy answer: He thought he had 'special' insight. They all think they do. Some are born teachers! Never need a lesson or training, schooling, apprenticeship, etc. Its a psychological condition (sometimes born of necessity) that often backfires. On the other hand, you have the real journalists and writers, some of who are untrained but willing to learn to perfect their trade, rather than preach-prove! In terms of raw talent I think Bruce is better than Gray by a long way! And Blevins isnt even in Bruce's league and Blevins knows it and resents it. But Bruce has a chip on his shoulder and can be undisciplined driven by compulsions without which he could be a very-very good writer/thinker. Bruce is fractured in his thinking - without that he could be a true professional sought after - people sense this in Bruce, in case he wonders. Bruce has real natural talent if he would only master it - Bruce could benefit from a Writer's workshop working with pros or working with true pros at a large newspaper. Bruce needs a lucky break that would consolidate and focus his talent. Writing is a very difficult profession.

We work the storm angle to keep H and JT happy. Never mind if it happened or not. Its the concession that counts. Learfield Sports has paid for an ad! We will get to the facts later - after the anniversary and Geof Gray's instalation as Knight Crown Templer Magnum est