georger

I can't believe the FBI never talked to Norman Hayden...now that's bungling!!! hangdiver During the hijack why would they? It wasnt the FBI trying to get chutes. It was NW and airport officials. Parachutes was not the FBI's business or mission. Its clear who called Hayden. Cossey has his version of who called him. Neither was the FBI. Who is going to order the FBI to procure parachutes? (no one) The FBI doesnt like serving as delivery people. The agent showed that position after the fact. People just dont seem to get this... People want the FBI to do-this, do-that, and have dinner ready at 5:00PM! Gravy please.

Perhaps, but it opens up questions about Cossey's memory and veracity. Also, our prior info about the types of rigs was wrong. No D rings on either rig making the reserves useless unless DBC had a few carabiners. No Pioneer Paracommander sport canopy. It was not a pointless inquiry by any means. I think Gray, Snow and Bruce have opened up some new evidentiary issues. It doesnt tell us who Cooper was, but his chute choice now makes a lot more sense. He chose the right one, in my opinion, but was it a reasoned decision or a coin toss? 377 Isnt there a reference somewhere to "trouble getting the chutes" ? In the Transcripts - havent looked ? Tosaw and Sluggo identified one (serie) of calls that were made? Maybe there were several calls, calls that crossed without all parties knowing ...? Multiple calls > multiple chutes. How would the parties called even know other parties had been contacted, yet each responded? How would a SAC writing later even know the full-accurate history; he wouldnt. I dont think the FBI was training its people on parachute types then! (or shovel manufactirers either). If all of that adds up to bungling ????? Cossey has his facts. Hayden has his. SAC has his. Aunt Mable has hers. All facts may be true, each in their own histories ? Nobody may be lying? The whole thing may be the 'whole truth' ?

Superb job Bruce. Persue the 4-chute scenario. ? 2/4/6/8 ? Calls within calls . . .

Didn't this start with a debate between 'experts' ? Add more experts! Call in more experts. Life used to be so simple - The obvious person to go with Bruce is: Farflung. Call Bruce back!

You are really helping to sort out the chute Did you talk with Cossey about the Amboy canopy? 377 I have avoided any mention of that at this time, \ like the plague!

Okay - my actual question should have been - does anyone have any other reasonable assumptions for why these memos would also be sent to the FBI office in Minneapolis? (other than the assumption because Northwest was based there ETA: and the SR-71 flight is based on NW dropzone projections) And does anyone other than me think it is interesting that Portland wasn't copied?. Glad to see the page is fixed. We dont know that Portland wasn't being copied, by fax or other means. But Seattle was in charge of the case. During one period Vancouver was being copied and Vancouver was copying Seattle, but you never hear about that. By more than one account one of the real experts on the Cooper case was the long tenured agent at Vancouver (who btw is long gone). His name came up frequently in conversations I had several years ago. One other reason to keep Minneapolis in the loop, as if it wasnt going to be anyway, is because of the need to look for Midwestern suspects who might fit, who had 'midwestern' accents. Presumably Knoss and Lyle ride in on that magic carpet (still). There is no reason Cooper had to be Washington- based. There are a few reasons to suggest he wasnt if Tom's pollen findings apply (and the lack of pollens one would expect) ? On the other hand, no walleye eggs or boiled fish residue were found on the tie either, nor a Mormon tract left on the seat Presumably no one heard Cooper say 'yall' or cite the Psalms, either. Cooper pretty much stuck to business - and used side conversation as a utility serving the main job at hand. Cooper wasnt there to win friends, or was he ?

It started at the top of this page #1117. I havent been here or logged in or posted today until just now - so it cant be me. It was Cossey!

Someone maybe Hominid mentioned (asked for) sled test photos showing the tethered parachute - here are two of those photos. I have the hi-res versions if Sluggo doesnt have them ? These photos are interesting in that they show the arc of the sled drop, timing of stair closure vs drop distance traveled by sled, stair position before drop vs shortly after drop, etc. Sled test drop photos attached in consecutive order - Would a human body have had the same aerodynamics as this sled ? Was a sled a valid test?

Former FBI agent Fuhrman (sic), the guy who interviewed the 305 witnesses in Seattle, does not believe the Washougal washdown theory. He told me this personally in Seattle. We spoke at a sports bar just after Geoff Gray made his book stop at Third Place Books. He believes it is more likely the money was planted sometime after the hijacking. Part of this belief stems from the Tom Tests and the lining up of the serial numbers. I also favor this theory. I have heard this about Fuhrman. Ive never talked to Fuhrman. What was his feeling about this back in '80? Did you ask?

Okay, fair enough. So, what are his original statements? I'm not trying to be coy here; I've only been on the Hunt since August 2008, so I'm new. I don't know what Cossey's original statements were. I only know what he has told me in the past two-three years, and they don't jive with others are telling me. Bruce just to be explicit: Recall Ckret did interview Cossey. Ckret posted the basics of his interview here, so do a search and if you dont find it I will dredge it up for you. Just so you know Larry did interview Cossey, which I assume you already know ..... to say it again ... good luck.

Welcome back. Georger is the statement above really you - you actually went to see Hayden? You are correct about the Washougal Wash Down Theory not originating with Palmer. Palmer's Report is no more than a letter that states the money on Tena's bar had been there less than a yr and had been in the water for less than a yr. He did NOT propose how it got there and a wash down was NOT part of that letter. I only know what I have been told by someone who actually got to read the "Report". No. I have never been to see Hayden. This is all NEWS to me. I have never read a socalled Hayden file. Never heard of it until Geof. But I agree its very interesting, as Snow says. Im mulling this over, frankly because there are possible implications. I wonder why Ckret never mentioned it. Ckret did interview Cossey twice - remember? Ckret and Cossey got along well. Ckret liked Cossey and wanted to spend more time with him so I know Ckret relied on Cossey, but no mention of Hayden when its obvious he was a known player? I have to assume H played no role in this - that all contacts with Cossey (and Hayden) were from the Seattle office, by who? That Hayden actually went to Court sets off mixed feelings in me. Ingrams come to mind. These items are "evidence" after all. Should have been handled in a different manner to preserve the evidentiary aspect over a longer period, imo. I show my bias here. As for Palmer, make no mistake, Palmer did buy in to and promoted the Washougal washdown theory 'in his report', irregardless of its origin. The Washougal Washdown Theory became the official explanation, for all practical purposes. Agents were informed 'this is the best explanation that makes sense' and those still alive today that I have interviewed still repeat it. I know of nothing that suggests Palmer had or expoused an alternate theory, Jo. Sorry but Duane's version just doesn't fit the known facts... and those facts I am referring to involve the scene of the money find itself without any consideration of where the money came from. Tom will hopfully make this all very clear soon. Geof is also in possession of the basic facts.

I agree with 377 - one must watch for (and adjust) if Cossey's penchant for pranks surfaces? That aside I am wondering if this is not just one more example of incomplete history at work, vs a wholesale change in Cooper 'parachute history'? Does it matter who owned the chutes? Why would we get different stories about where and from who the chutes were obtained? Who' would the FBI turn to for a correct identification of the chutes regardless of where they came from or who owned them, in their convoluted history? (probably Cossey imho because Cossey was the maker/origin of the back chutes). Correct? ? But, we have been down this road before, Multiple stories from multiple people; not all stories agree. The Palmer report and "washougal washdown" are one case in point. Bruce's description of the money site vs Georger's description of that site vs. Agent X's description of that site ... vs. Palmer's description of that site. Fact I can prove: The Washougal Washdown Theory did not originate with Leonard Palmer but from someone else involved as an advisor at the time. That is the actual history of that, in case it matters. Others may disagree... There are many other example of this same multiple-account phenominon occuring in the Cooper story. Resolving these different account is what research is all about - Im not saying anything new -

You are not surprised because you already knew Snow was a renaissance man, albeit an edgy one. 377 I agree to go along - whatever works. What I want to do is back to sorting out Cooper history -

The proposal is simple: Quade deletes Blevins' named vulture photo of me, and in exchange I will leave the forum and never come back. Blevins & Quade get the forum, and I get my freedom from Blevins ... Sounds crazy. Yes. Anything involving Blevins must be crazy.

Sources please on smut and victims. I'll have you know I do possess morals. Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is one of them. Or maybe they count as two. I don't know. It's late and I have a busy day tomorrow. Thank you for putting a smile on my face before bed. You are truly funny sometimes. I think the vulture pic is called for (again), just for laughs. I admit it. I can be a hard guy sometimes. I see some Toondoo in my future. Sources please on smut and victims. ? This post for a start dont you think? I wouldn't count your post as a 'source'. And to think this all started because I edited out a post in favor of watching football. Speaking of which, today's Monday Night game might be good, although I don't think Hank Williams will be there tonight. Or ever again. You started it in any event, liar. I posted asking about rear galley in 727-100. You answered saying in the rear "in Tourist class of course" ... with other demeaning gibberish. Then deleted it. If you were so business watching football why post at all? So I posted a reply which is still on the board. I addressed the issue of the galley. Delete your photo of a vulture with name on it. I have complained to Quade about you finally. Why does this Adventure Books have no phone number? Is it a business or what? We have your other phone numbers - You delete your photo with name and I will leave this forum/thread and never come back. Its a fair trade in my estimation. You get the forum. I get my freedom from YOU! I am serious. I will now ask Quade to delete your photo in trade I will leave.

Sources please on smut and victims. I'll have you know I do possess morals. Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is one of them. Or maybe they count as two. I don't know. It's late and I have a busy day tomorrow. Thank you for putting a smile on my face before bed. You are truly funny sometimes. I think the vulture pic is called for (again), just for laughs. I admit it. I can be a hard guy sometimes. I see some Toondoo in my future. Sources please on smut and victims. ? This post for a start dont you think?

Your post before deleted started by saying I am asshole and an idiot then said: "galley was in the REAR in Tourist class of course", and I am an idiot - So Blevins, justify your factual post and your 4016th personal attack, against me, Sluggo, Geestman etal . . . ! Or run to mommy and Tom Kaye crying ... You're on a roll . . . say what's really on your mind! Trick r Treat, RobertMBlevins Enterprises Ltd. You say you know! Tell us! Why leave your guests and your fans dissapointed and in limbo? Are you cruel? Dont let the world down, old chap. No one called you an idiot, Georger. The real reason I deleted the post was because I was watching NFL football and I didn't feel like editing. I was missing some good game. LOL Seahawks win today on the road against New England, 36-25. I swear...it's like you spend 24/7 waiting like a vulture on a telephone pole for me to post. You aren't a stalker, right? Of course, you aren't. But that's the first time I've ever seen you slam on me over a NON-post, and that's a little strange. Non-post? It wasnt a NON-post! You replied to my post about gallies making a factual statement about the 727-100 coupled with a slur against me. Now you come back claiming you didnt post? And demean me more and even post a picture of Vulture_______________. Dont you see your escalation? Galley post>Stalker>Vulture. Blevins you need mental help. You are a Troll. You will remove a post you suspect may be factually wrong because you dont want to be seen again as posting wrong information but, you will escalate matters further and leave a new post associating me with stalking and being a vulture! Your priorities are crystal clear. Maybe you need to be DECODED ? At least you are a consistent smut peddler, with a long list of victims.

Your post said the 'galley is in the rear on 305, in Tourist class "of course" ', as if we all are idiots and you know.

Your post before deleted started by saying I am asshole and an idiot then said: "galley was in the REAR in Tourist class of course", and I am an idiot - So Blevins, justify your factual post and your 4016th personal attack, against me, Sluggo, Geestman etal . . . ! Or run to mommy and Tom Kaye crying ... You're on a roll . . . say what's really on your mind! Trick r Treat, RobertMBlevins Enterprises Ltd. You say you know! Tell us! Why leave your guests and your fans dissapointed and in limbo? Are you cruel? Dont let the world down, old chap.

OH I FORGOT How many gallies were on 305? Was there only one midway through the cabin? Was there even a galley in the rear? (or the front)? 305 was 727-100. Gray's reference mentions no galley (front or rear) and food all over seats ... My guess is the Continental diagram applies to 305 and is the correct version - so any reference to a rear galley (whatever the source) is wrong.

Yes, but the lionesses will target the stragglers, so it is often the old, weak or babies who get taken. But they can still do damage to the lionesses. If you've ever watched footage of lioness attacks, it is quite fascinating. I guess it's instinct, but it is akin to a well- executed military plan! I saw aerial footage once of ...I think it was some wild dogs they were after... and the aerial footage showed clearly how they executed a pincer attack on the pack. Incredible stuff. I worked a year doing research for the Seda family in Nairobi, through a UNESCO appointment. George Seda did a masters degree here in Hydraulic Engineering.

Funny you just posted this - I was going to say: tell him how elephants are not a 'solitary' species but exist in groups, very social for protection. Lions very rarely attack a healthy elephant in a group - that would be suicide for the lionesse(s).

A good, solid background on Braden. Nice. In what respect, coach?

‘Snow’ (code name?) said this to Gray but georger knew it before but kept it to himself because he is nice like that. Then went on a tirade how this was known by many people, near and far and is believed by more to be true. Well that’s good enough for government work, that’s for sure. Issue the permits for Thalidomide. Ok, Snow. Issue the permits for Propofol and Lorazepam. Dont boogey in your sandals.

Public trust (trust in an airline) is absolutely vital to any airline's existence. Airlines are expected to solve every conceivable problem and come out the other end smiling with public trust intact. The secrecy net is wide and incorporates almost everyone associated with the airline industry. There are FAA mandates and strong corporate mandates in this matter, legally enforceable. 'Incidents' are a serious matter. Farflung can probably speak directly to this matter.