snowmman

Hmmmm Snow, that's not a bad theory. Not bad at all. It never ceases to amaze me how you parse new stuff out of old info that to me, has been thoroughly analyzed and isn't worth revisiting. I have viewed aerial landscapes at night and made errors based on seeing what I expected to see rather than what is actually there. You initially make the scene fit your expectation and ignore the inconsistent stuff. In a short time as a window gazing passenger, you realize your error, but the NWA crew was very busy with other stuff and probably wasn't spending a lot of time looking at the ground landmarks. 377 If you go back and look at when I was beating on Larry about how they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia, it was weird. He provided very little information..Nothing more than the one liner I posted above. Yet he was confident Cooper jumped before the Columbia. This mirrors the absolute fact Jerry believes he got from Himmelsbach, although Jerry didn't repeat whatever Himmelsbach said. (I think Himmelsbach is good at sounding factual, when he's just spouting his personal theories/stories, so it's easy for listeners to be swayed, and then when they get home, they can't remember exactly why they were convinced...) So: it got me thinking..why would Larry be so dogmatic about anything? Why would he care? I think Larry tends to get dogmatic when the evidence is weak. I don't know why. He did the same thing when I pushed back on the age thing. So: We need the "Guaranteed To Have Jumped Before The Columbia" evidence that's being held secretively. (note that even if it's true: how soon minimally before the Columbia? 30 seconds? 1 minute? What's the theory/data/interview say and why is it correct?) What's weird is that Larry was perfectly happy to say the Jump Point was incorrectly calculated at 8:11. We had data/report that showed how that error occurred. But we don't have data that would help us on the rest. I guess it's the Rataczak interview. Don't know if there's anything else. (edit) Things to think about: Vancouver was much smaller then. Both rivers have similar widths. Both rivers have bridges over them. They're both going roughly east-west when 305 crosses them. And Rataczak said "Portland". And Rataczak was not from the Northwest.

I had pushed Ckret hard before on why they knew Cooper jumped before the Columbia. His answer was typically lame. I hammered on what "felt" meant.. But I think my theory about the Williamette could be good. Ckret said: For Cooper to have gone into the Columbia 305 would have had to cross the Columbia. This, according to the flight crew didn't happen, they felt Cooper jumped before this point.

Okay, there's all this anecdotal info about how they're confident Cooper jumped before the Columbia. I think that's based on Rataczak testimony, if I remember Ckret's posts correctly. But in the same breath, we believe Rataczak said something odd..i.e. that the bump was before the lights of Portland. (not Vancouver). And it appears in 1980, Rataczak is a little wrong about how far east he thought the plane was, relative to V23, if we believe the 1980 meeting with Himmelsbach. (I suspect Rataczak just made an offhand comment, and Himmelsbach drummed it up into a big story like he does..i.e. Mr Blowing Like Billly Hell. So Rataczak is this mixture of good and bad testimony. How to resolve? The post from Ckret is "They do have conversation, however, Radazcak said he could see the northern suburbs of Portland when this occurred. He also said it occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 PM." So I was thinking "What if Rataczak saw the Williamette, and thought it was the Columbia? That would make sense for the testimony. And it would make sense for Cooper jumping and landing in the Columbia" Luckily the new GE 5 with it's historical imagery has some b/w imagery around Portland from Jul 5 1970. I've attached it. Pretty cool. The Williamette has all those bridges crossing it. In fact when I was looking, I was confused for a bit, before I remembered the center of Portland is not next to the Columbia, it's next to the Williamette. So if Cooper jumped right at the Columbia, I think all of Rataczak's testimony can be resolved with other data. Remember it was overcast/broken clouds. (I've read two layers of clouds, but unclear) The imagery doesn't extend to Vancouver. (attached) Green is V23. Blue is the flight path. We don't have flight path tick marks past 20:18 (really 20:17)

Nasa is doing this plane that uses SAR for ultra-precise flight path, and they have an agreement to not come within 10 miles of the FAA long range radar sites, because the frequency they use is similar. 377 might like looking at that: http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/index.html It's being designed to operate on an UAV, but initially uses a Gulfstream. 10 meter diameter precision on the flight path. They have a map of all FAA long range radar sites here, and a KML file is downloadable. http://uavsar.jpl.nasa.gov/fieldsites/faamap.htm basically confirms what I posted for ZSE, but shows all locations on a map, nicely. (we launch the UAVs tonight!) (edit) I think my list for ZSE above was more complete, as this map is missing the ARSR-1E in Seattle.

Okay from http://nas-architecture.faa.gov/nas/location/location_data.cfm?fid=20 I think this might be a list of current long range radar used by ZSE ARTCC..this seems to align with what dy8coke was saying: Note the local tracon and aiport stuff isn't included, just long range stuff. (edit) some are shared with other ARTCC's? LAKESIDE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QLS] Northwest Mountain Region; Flathead County; Lakeside, Montana. ARSR-4. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC? KLAMATH FALLS LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [LMT] Northwest Mountain Region; Klamath County; Klamath Falls, Oregon. Shared with Oakland ZOA? FOSSIL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QVN] Northwest Mountain Region; Wheeler County; Fossil, Oregon. Shared with Salt Lake City, ZLC? MAKAH-NEAH BAY LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QKW] Northwest Mountain Region; Clallam County; Neah Bay, Washington MICA PEAK-SPOKANE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QMI] Northwest Mountain Region; Spokane County; Spokane, Washington. Shared with Salt Lake City ZLC? PENDLETON WxRR (SURVEILLANCE) [PDT] Northwest Mountain Region; UMATILLA County; PENDLETON, Oregon RAINBOW RIDGE-RIO DELL LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [QZZ] Western Pacific Region; Humboldt County; Rio Dell, California. Shared with Oakland ZOA? SALEM LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SLE] Northwest Mountain Region; Polk County; Salem, Oregon SEATTLE LRR (SURVEILLANCE) [SEA] Northwest Mountain Region; King County; Seattle, Washington (listed as ARSR-1E still, so maybe it's the Fort Lawton site?) also, just noticed there are 26 current facilities considered ARTCC, not 21 like I said before. (they include Toronto, Vancouver, Guam, Honolulu, San Juan CERAP).

okay, I've got a sector map, high and low altitude, with voice comm frequencies for each sector. I won't attach that because I don't think it adds any information, radar-wise. I've read there's a number of secondary transmitters for voice comm. But I think the number of radar locations for Seattle ARTCC is small. I still think it might just be one. I think this is one: Fort Lawton. Picture attached. from http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM3508 Here's a comment from a guy who worked there: "Yep, we still use Amplitrons in our FAA ARSR-1/2 long range radars, used for air traffic control. Most sites have been upgraded, but we still have a few, including one nearby at Discovery Park, in Seattle. I was the facility manager for several years." The following Fort Lawton site history is from the radomes.org Website: The 635th AC&W Squadron relocated to this site which by 1960 was a joint-use station with the Army and the FAA. This site used an FAA ARSR-1C search radar and two Air Force AN/FPS-6A height-finder radars. (The Army also had 2 AN/FPS-6 variant height-finder radars of their own.) Circa late 1962 an AN/FPS-26 height-finder radar was installed. In March 1963 the Air Force directed the site to close, and the 635th Radar Squadron (SAGE) deactivated. [However, the squadron would be reborn in 1972 at Dauphin Island AFS, AL (Z-249) when that site re-opened as part of the Southern Air Defense System.] The Fort Lawton radar site remains in use by the FAA today, still operating the ARSR-1E search radar. Coordinates are: N 47° 39.434 W 122° 24.824 (edit) From another page: "The Air Route Surveillance Radar Model 1E (ARSR-1E) is based on a 1970s vintage radar that has been updated through Service Life Extension Program (SLEP). It is a long-range radar system with a maximum detection range of 200 nautical miles (nmi). The ARSR-1E is a surveillance system used to detect azimuth and slant range of en route aircraft operating between terminal areas. It also provides weather intensity data. The ARSR-1E is interface to a collocated Common Digitizer Model 1/2 (CD-1/CD-2) or other digital processor which provides digitized output."" (edit) attached an overhead current satellite shot of the radome from Google Maps. It is about 8 miles NW of Seattle.

I have been lurking awhile and I see a common error in your view of the Seattle ARTCC (ZSE). You think there is one big radar antenna in Auburn Wa. In fact there is no radar antenna at Auburn. ZSE is broken up into many sectors, both high altitude and low altitude, I know there are many radar antennas that make up the ZSE coverage from the Canadian/Washington border to the north all the way down to northern California and east to Montana. They also cover the Northwestern corner of Nevada. I do not believe there is a one to one sector-to-radar. But one radar feeds many sectors. A long time ago I saw either a chart or document that had these radar locations. I did a quick/lame google search and did not find out any info, but I am sure it is out there. I also believe that both McChord and ZSE were tracking 305 and the Idents were just the controllers trying to verify which radar taget was 305, all an Ident does is cause the corosponding radar return to brighten, wheter or not the radar return has a data block or not. No I am not ATC, but have flow in the airspace. Excellent info. I usually just post whatever current info I have or understanding. So I expect it to be incomplete. My hope is always that it triggers a reply or something that gets me going in a direction to finetune stuff. Your post is an excellent example of why it's useful to post whatever one's current thoughts/data are. The ARTCC issue is important I think, because those guys would have been tracking the expected V23? And we have the transcripts of the comms from the ARTCC. It does appear that the military info was used for radar on the flight path map though? instead of ARTCC? It would be really interesting to know if the ARTCC back then had storage (tape) capability. Also: all the computerization stuff was just rolling out in '71 (up to like '74 throughout the USA) It'd be interesting to know the exact gear they had. And like you say if they had data feed from multiple places, then knowing what was where, would be interesting. I'm still wondering why they used USAF data, as opposed to the FAA/ARTCC data.

I was thinking about how often people talk about hypothermia and Cooper's core body temperature, and was wondering "Why?" We know he had a raincoat, but that's ignored? (some even had zippered-in liners, but assume Cooper's didn't) Do people think raincoats of that era didn't work? (I believe the DSA 100-75 means 1975, and hte DSA-71 means 1971) I've attached some pictures of Vietnam-era army-issued raincoats, just as an indication of the kind of technology used in raincoats of that era. These raincoats weren't impermeable. They had a "Quarpel" coating: "In 1959, a breakthrough in rainwear treatments by technologists at the Quartermaster Research and Development Laboratories (now U.S. Army Natick Laboratories), made a satisfactory and attractive military raincoat possible at last. Chemists at these Laboratories combined two commercially available water repellents to synergistically produce a highly durable water-repellent and oil-resistant treatment for textiles. This treatment, named "Quarpel" as a Quartermaster-developed repellent, freed Army clothing designers from the necessity of using coated fabrics for rainwear. The Quarpel treatment could withstand up to 15 launderings without re-treatment and still retain greater water repellency than the best vapor permeable raincoats then on the market. Fabrics treated with the compound remained vapor permeable and free from uncomfortable moisture condensation The Quartermaster Corps had applied Quarpel to field and combat clothing and the results confirmed their hopes that the treatment could provide a rain garment which was efficiently water-repellent, washable and comfortable. Accordingly, in 1964 the Army adopted a semidress raincoat utilizing the Quarpel treatment to replace the coated fabric taupe raincoat for all male personnel. The new raincoat was a lighter but harmonizing shade of green for wear with the Army Green uniform and was made of a single layer of 5 ounce, cotton polyester fabric with an inside shoulder yoke. Because of its washability and better drape, the new raincoat provided an improved appearance and promised a longer service life than the current standard."

georger said "Can we make anything out of this situation which helps make a new map?"" There was a Captain's name (redacted) on the thing from Ckret, who provided the USAF McChord data. If we had that name, we could find out what unit he was in, and maybe find out more about the data. I notice in reviewing it, they they didn't use pilot interviews for the jump time prediction. I think I mentioned this before. says "Probable jump time (0411 GMT) from an analysis of the recorded communication of the flight relative to the cabin pressure fluctuation" So it sounds like all they (NWA) used was the transcripts for the jump time. No interviews with Rat.

from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGEv7hlptRY "The total engineering effort for SAGE was immense. Total project cost remains unknown, but estimates place it between 8 and 12 billion 1964 dollars, more than the Manhattan Project that developed the nuclear bomb SAGE defended against." F-106's could (and did) carry nuclear tipped missles (1.5kton)

from http://www.coldwar.org/text_files/ColdwartimesMay2006.pdf (see nice 1966 photo attached, also) By the mid-60s, when SAGE was at its peak capability, there were over 100 such radar stations. Operating and maintaining these SAGE radar stations, Direction Centers, and Combat Centers were thousand of Air Force officers, non-commissioned officers, airmen, and civilians. Mostly without recognition, but with integrity, service before self, and skill, they labored throughout the Cold War at largely isolated and/or mountainous locations. One such radar station was at Mount Hebo Air Force Station (AFS) in Oregon. It was operated and maintained by the 689th Radar Squadron, 25th Air Division, Air Defense Command, and USAF. Mount Hebo AFS was operational from the 1956 to 1980. The picture shows Mount Hebo AFS in 1966. This location was chosen not for it’s view, but for its’ excellent radar coverage of an area almost 400 miles in diameter (ed. 200 miles radius). This area included the Pacific Ocean, the western coast of Oregon and Washington, and the entrance to the Columbia River. The radar equipment was located at about 3150 feet above sea level. The scenery was spectacular. It included the Pacific Ocean, and the mountains from Mount Rainer near Seattle, WA to the Three Sisters in OR, a distance of almost 300 miles from north to south. Portland, OR and Mount Hood were to the east. North of Mount Hood was Washington’s Mount St. Helens. About 20 miles north of Mount Hebo was the town of Tillamook, OR and the nearby former WWII blimp base at Naval Air Station (NAS) Tillamook. The large radome shown protected the AN/FPS-24 search radar made by GE for the Air Force. This radome was really big, almost 160 feet in diameter and over 100 feet tall. Perched on top of the 85-foot tall FPS-24 building, this radome could be seen from 50 miles out in the Pacific Ocean. The smaller radome protected the AN/FPS-90 height finder radar. Another height finder radar, the AN/FPS-26A, was located behind the FPS-24 building.

Bach said: "Is it reasonable to assume all military involvement was being coordinated using McChord data?" Yeah, I guess so. Two F-106's were sent up to intercept. That was the standard intercept method. They would be directed by SAGE. That's why we got into talking about SAGE. SAGE was at McChord. Now maybe the SAGE data wasn't used, and it was more typical radar at McChord. If Seattle ARTCC could go 180miles, then McChord could too. SAGE got feeds from multiple radar locations. So it could have been more precise. Mt. Hebo was one well known location that fed SAGE? (near Hebo, OR), only 70 miles or so from Portland. Was Mt Hebo feeding data that night? don't know.

funny where they read them (this thread was last year, unrelated to DBC) note the last poster agrees with me, :) from http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=78108.0 -------------------------------------------------- MAJOR Dan Cooper Comics « on: July 17, 2008, 14:41:31 » Does anybody remember reading these comics about Major Dan Cooper of Canada's Finest. From what I know and can remember, they were in French and only published in Europe by a Belgian writer. I used to read these in Lahr at the Downtown Salvation Army when I was a kid. ------------------------------------------------------------------- There was a kiosk at an airshow i went to in Holland that was selling them. I used to read them as a kid. -------------------------------------------------------------------- After all these years, I still have my (modest) collection. # 22 to 40 except #34. And yes Mr. Albert Weinberg is Belgian. I do recall seeing some Dan Cooper here in Quebec City many, many years ago. But they were all albums I already had....thanks to Lahr Canex... remember when Canex was actually a place worthy to go :P. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- when you bought something at the CANEX Lahr Book Store (Caserne ) they would stamp it with a Black Star indicating you had paid for it. I found some Archie Comics at my parents place last year and they were in an actual rotation box! They had the Black Star from Lahr. Does anybody remember the Salvation Army Canteen downtown Lahr? --------------------------------------------------------------------- For all of you, fan of this Canadian pilot who pilot everything from a glider to the space shuttel ;)...yes, you can find them in Québec. Surely not in all the libraries but if you try a bit, you will find them... :P -------------------------- we need more people like Major Cooper! ------------------------------------

Loss of the Mode C transponder does not mean the “blip” was lost. It just means the blip has no ID associated with it and the controller isn’t sure of the aircraft’s altitude. (Based on experience from 1991 – 1998 [your mileage may vary]). Ah okay. It doesn't matter anyhow. The transponder is lost at 8:54 PST in the transcript. So that was well after the interesting time for Cooper. (edit) as a sanity check: at 200 MPH, they would have gone about another 87 Miles in 26 minutes. So say 190 mile range for the radar, roughly. (edit) just remembered they didn't go in a perfectly straight radial from Seattle, so max radar range was probably less than 190 miles. I'm assuming the earlier ident requests, and the transponder lost message at 8:54, meant the radar operator had transponder up to 8:54, so minimally, had radar blip till 8:54, from Seattle ARTCC. Now: if the flight map radar data was from McChord, I'm assuming it was at least as good as Seattle ARTCC, otherwise they would have used Seattle ARTCC. Unless Seattle ARTCC didn't have recording capability or something like that.

I knew I shoudn't have trusted Orange1. I knew 377 was wrong when he said flying the 727 to Africa with gold bars was a good idea. They found the stash already. (Mar. 9, 2009) uh...ok...let's see. The story will be that people find buried money in Africa, like R1.5 Million, all the time. This is nothing special. As long as no one panics, everything will be cool. It's possible Himmelsbach is on the case, because there are some facts being reported (see bold). Ekhuruleni is a municipality in South Africa. That has nothing to do with anything you've read in this forum. http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=955324 A construction worker today found a cooler box, which he initially thought was a bomb, but actually contained R1.5 million in cash. "The construction worker intended digging a six-metre hole for a drainage system in Edenvale when he found a medium-sized cooler box buried deep down," said Ekhuruleni Metro Police spokesman Kobeli G Mokheseng. He said the worker thought it was a bomb and alerted police. "Officers rushed to the 10th Avenue building and opened the blue and white container that seemed to be hidden underground for a long time. "When the container was opened we found R50 and R20 notes to an estimated value of R1.5 million." He did not want to say where the money was taken to, so that the case was not jeopardised. No arrests were made. Investigations are continuing. ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20090310044831487C700774 A construction worker has unearthed more than R1-million stashed away in a cooler box in Edenvale. Rodgers Nkuna, 25, was digging up a six-metre trench for the drainage system near a building in 10th Avenue when he came across a mud-spattered blue and white cooler box at about 10am on Monday. "For a moment he thought it was a bomb, before he notified the metro police, who came and opened the container, which seems to have been hidden underground for a long time," said Ekurhuleni metro police spokesperson Kobeli Mokheseng. "It contained R50 and R20 notes worth an estimated R1.5-million," he said. Mokheseng pointed out that the ground where the cooler box was found was still wet from recent rains. The notes were damaged from the wet ground and covered in mud. "The cooler box could have been there for a very long time. We don't know how it could have landed down there," he added. "Maybe whoever buried it there was hoping to find it after they had served time in jail, or they could be dead. "The Edenvale police are investigating the origin of the money."

"trained killer bears" actually there are a few grizzly in washington. If you were looking to drop me in a true-to-life remote area, it would be the North Cascades, just northeast of Seattle. "The North Cascades grizzly bear recovery area covers almost 10,000 square miles (one of the largest in the United States). More than 40% of the recovery area is designated wilderness, 90% is federal or state owned, and 68% has no motorized access." Now that would be a good challenge! maps and other info here: http://www.bearinfo.org/recovery.htm some pictures of grizzly tracks in WA, plus the hide of a 1000lb+ grizzly shot in 1923 http://www.bearinfo.org/observations.htm confirmed sightings are really really rare. "Of North Cascades grizzly bear sightings reported to government agencies between 1950 and 1991, 20 were confirmed and an additional 81 were considered highly probable. Today, the estimated resident population in Washington’s North Cascades is between 5 and 20 bears:

377: did you brain glitch? or am I missing something about slant range error... The 305 altitude was just 10,000 ft. And it was in the vicinity of 100 mi away during the critical flight path time, from seatac. You only have to worry about slant range error being large, when the object is close, relative to it's altitude. Think about ratio of hypotenuse to adjacent leg of the triangle. The distance from Seatac to Lake Merwin is about 100 miles as the crow files. That's a 50 to 1 ratio to 309's altitude. consulting pythagoras: hyp = sqrt (100**2 + 2**2) = 100.02 so just .02 miles difference between the two measurements. (100.02 - 100) = .02 Even comparing to McChord Air Base, which is 85 miles. sqrt (85**2 + 2**2) = 85.02 negligible?

377 said: "It was really a very easy jump with a big wind blast but nothing difficult or scary. The high exit speed meant that jumpers were spread out for miles so there were no serious freefall or canopy traffic issues." I would note that in 1971, when the FBI went to skydivers and asked for opinions about jet jumps, very few civilians had done jet jumps? military had been jumping from c-141 jet. Civilian parachutes had been tested by military from jets. I guess emergency jumps had been done from jets, along with a lot of military testing. What's weird is understanding how all of these opinions about Cooper's jump, were created? I mean, the people giving opinions probably had never done a jet jump. And military was doing side-door c-141 jumps without a lot of deaths etc. So why was everyone all confident they knew what Cooper experienced? I think they were just making up stories to justify their own "expertness". It would have been better for them to say "we don't know, the experiment is outside our experience".

Agreed. Just add "and for some reason, we still can't get all the facts, like the damn Palmer Clay Layer Report"......I swear when TK was on TV, he probably didn't know about the Palmer Report. How else to explain his "maybe" when asked if the money was there all along, on camera? Or did he know about the Palmer Report and has discounted it for some reason? I don't know.

I don't know Snow, sounds like a pleasant afternoon to me. It is just like hunting or fishing, you know. A few tall tales are expected. Talk about "the one that got away"... Cooper is the ULTIMATE. 377 Right, agree. And Sluggo has confirmed Ralph likes to tell stories. He's a storyteller. That's his profile. And he's an old guy now. Old guys like to stick to their old stories. They like to be "right". That simple. What amazes me, is guys like Jerry come on here, and profess the religion of "facts". And then in the next breath start talking about how they know Cooper is a "common criminal" and how he jumped in the woods, and all sorts of random speculation. Georger got me right with Jo and the castration theory. I want to hear Georger's theory on why Jerry needs to pal up with Himmelsbach. Is it the same castration theory? My fantasy looks better in a dress though.

for whatever its worth I have the same story from other sources. Seattle radar did not reach to PDX, PDX had 305 on radar but wasnt paying attention!? Things like that. but somebody made the NWA map somehow with something! The idea that Seattle radar did not reach PDX is clearly wrong. the transcripts show that. Also, I've shown that it is possible that at the lowest levels, the radar in use in 1971 is still in use today at Seattle ARTCC. (they definitely upgraded parts of it. But I think they still have ARSR-1/2. (ZSE at Auburn, WA http://nas-architecture.faa.gov/nas/location/location_data.cfm?fid=20 ) A visit to them would confirm this, or get more info. But the data used was McChord, so the point might be moot. (edit) Note that the local Seattle TRACON ATC radar wouldn't reach PDX. I'm talking about Seattle ARTCC (there are 21 ARTCC sites in the USA) ...which we have the transcripts from. (i have no idea if people digest info here or ???)

I quoted the Palmer Report (Clay Layer) before. But in re-reading it, it looks like it was used to discount dredging theories also. If we had the report, we'd be able to review.. Norjak book says on page 110 Portland State University geologist Leonard Palmer discounted a theory that the cash had been deposited in 1974 by Corps of Engineers dredging oeprations. Palmer noted that the money had been located in a layer of coarse sand that ranged from several inches to four feet thick. He found two other distinct layers of sand and sediment on top of the material dredged from the river. that same page also repeats the statement about finding "fragments of bills as deep as three feet in the same sand formation"...although the co-author may have gotten that from news reports? also says "No other major segments of bills were found" (edit) I mention this, because it maybe steered thinking away from dredging. It may have been correct, or may have been incorrect. We can't know since we don't have the report.

"Still, I just cannot put Ralph in the whack job category." What kind of person goes on tour to the woods with Jerry, with a bunch of old biddies from a sewing group, telling stories about Cooper back in the day, that are devoid of facts? Even Jo doesn't do that.

"I'd bet on Snow just cause he is such an ornery tenacious guy and has a lot of outdoor experience in harsh conditions." People tend to limit themselves mentally when they evaluate things. For example: If you were driving a car down a back road in WA at night, what are the odds that it would end up with you on foot, and me driving your car away? You might say "I wouldn't stop" But what if I dragged some logs across the road, and then heaved some rocks thru your window after you stopped?

Hard to understand why he would keep this critical info to himself for years. Is there any credible theory about how Rat might have been unaware of the actual area searched until many years later??? 377 I thought they were talking about Lake Merwin in the papers right away. I think they got stuck on Lake Merwin 11/71 and the '72 map just confirmed their already created bias. So Rat would have known. Rat didn't create the new information until after the money was found (the retirement party was like within weeks or a week? of the money find) (edit) I also want to point out, that there's a strong bias to believing anything Himmelsbach says, because of his FBI and pilot background. It seems inconceivable that Himmelsbach would pass along random anecdotal data, just like Jo. Once you accept that the way Jo and Himmelsbach create opinions, can be very similar, then it becomes easier to sort out stuff. If you read the Norjak book, and the examples of people investigated that Himmelsbach provides, you can see Himmelsbach biases clearly. So my bias was pre-primed to believe Himmelsbach could be as much of a whack job as Jo.