snowmman

377: "Is anyone doing Cooper science? Is there such a thing?" Yes, It's on the FBI channel at youtube (they have one). There's a guy Tom Kaye who is leading the science effort. There is an illustrator researching Dan Cooper comic books and there was a metallurgist on TV but I think he got fired for smoking dope on the job. On youtube, there's a video of the science team doing a car drop out of the back of a C-130. I think they were in a humvee. The metallurgist had a huge spliff hanging out of his mouth. Tom Kaye was wearing full paintball face shield and other protective gear, which seems like cheating the car drop. The CSG employees are grumbling about unionizing..saying they don't get paid enough. F*ck 'em, I say.

That's pretty cool. Writing and communicating ideas is really powerful and required for most any white collar job (and hey, while lifting things and moving them around is cool...its decidedly uncool once you're an old fart, or if you have to work outside in the winter :) I don't think it's bad playing "catch up"...it's like your mind isn't ready for certain things at certain times. I suspect, for instance, he'll come to learn that it's going to be hard making money writing, but hey, it's all part of the path. Life is unpredictable. The kid will have a huge effect on him and how he makes decisions.

I think it's right that your kids should always surprise you. If they didn't, they'd be screwing up! What's your son studying in college? What was his take on the whole Ranger experience? good, middling, bad? I'm assuming a little bit just happy to be back ok? (edit) 377: you'll note hangdiver's comments reveal that "cheat to win" is an operational strategy taught by Snowmman Industries to Ranger teams.

Damn, Duane Weber Was Cooper! (edit) Jo said "and no family member lived in the vicincity of the local sales of that book." Pretty strong point. Could Duane have stolen it from a library? Or maybe he took it when he hijacked Flight 305? (edit) I'm thoroughly confused. I thought Tina was on the cover. Did Tina pose for the author of the book? What does the author say inside the book? Amazing coincidence that the author is a woman, and Tina is a woman....and Duane is a ....man! (edit) Jo said "The other book is about the same age, but I do not have a date available. I will be working on it's source tomorrow and that takes me to WA and OR." But if these are Tina's books, what does WA and OR have to do with it??? Did Tina spend time in WA and OR? Did she pose in WA and OR for the book? Do the books have nothing to do with Tina, but still everything to do with Flight 305, since the photo had Coors spilled on it? How did they serve Coors on planes in 1971? Was it a steel can? an aluminum can? A bottle? Probably a bottle. Bottle would have fingerprints. Is that why the FBI has covered up the Coors angle?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3261834;search_string=scott%20article;#3261834 It was a 1997 talk at the Aero Club in Arizona. The relevant passage that I wondered about is here: (see original post for url of the source) Once Cooper got his sack of money, he ordered Scott to fly as low and slowly as possible and drop the back steps. After cutting up a parachute, he emptied the sack of loot and began stuffing $20 bills into his makeshift waist pack. When Mucklow expressed astonishment at the huge pile of money, Cooper reached over and handed her a stack of bills. `We can't take tips,'' she said. The odd sentence is the "makeshift waist pack". (edit) and the implied pile of money outside of the original bag..."emptied the sack and began stuffing"..."the huge pile of money" But Scott wouldn't have seen that. Also, this is a reporter writing what he thought Scott said. There is nothing else. Jo, I think you're full of baloney on this. Cooper was drinking Coors. I thought it was Coors Light. But the FBI can't prove it wasn't Coors. For 20 years, I've asked them to show me the beer cans on that flight. No answer.

On Sept 7 2007 Ckret bragged. His measurements come from measuring what was left of the lines. The chestpack/money thing is speculation, regardless of what Jo wants to believe. " Some info to recreate Coopers money bag. Cooper cut all of the line from the chest pack where it was connected into the pack, separating the chute from the pack. By the way, the rubber bands in the pack show no signs of wear. By separating the chute from the pack he must have planned to put the money in the container. When he realized it would not fit, he then cut two lines, one 14'5" and the other 14'6". He then used the line to secure the bag and according to Mucklow to himself. The bag was described as 12"x12"x9" " http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3101518;search_string=money%20chest;#3101518 The speculation is based on having all the cords cut inside the reserve container, not just the cords that were taken.

Baloney. Post a reference. I believe the only reference is the article I posted, and Ckret's reply. Neither were fact. Ckret's was opinion. Post a reference.

Coors Light debuted in 1978. Can you imagine the chaos that would have resulted if the FBI revealed that DBC came from the future? 377 True. But in 1971, you couldn't get Coors on the east coast only the west. And Flight 305 originated on the east coast and ended in the west. I wonder if Jo's book actually has a beer stain on the photo? And you know what happened to Adoph Coors III in 1960, right? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Tb4VAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wQ8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=3081,891609&dq=coors&hl=en kidnapped Then eventually they find his skull. Where? next to a creek. (bones and clothing) Yes, in the Rocky Mountains...the same clear water in the beer. How come this is so eerily parallel to the Cooper saga? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=AukNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DHkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3750,2636026&dq=coors+skull&hl=en Edgward Green, 30, of Englewood, CO found the shoes, about four feet apart then a wadded pair of pants. in the pockets were 43 cents and a keychain. Silver pocket knife on the chain, monogrammed AC III (edit) AC -> DC -> Dan Cooper Corbett who they suspected early, eventually was convicted (he was a prior murderer) http://www.denverpost.com/mobile/ci_13231455 Where was Corbett arrested? Vancouver, British Columbia, Oct 29, 1960. Joe Corbett's 1960 booking mug shot is attached (from the above url) My point? Joe Corbett was Cooper Note he was born in Seattle. Note he worked at the Benjamin Moore paint company. Not Sherwin Williams. Oct. 25, 1928: Joseph Corbett Jr. is born in Seattle. June 7, 1949: Corbett's mother, Marion, falls from a balcony where the railing had been removed. She dies five days later. Dec. 21, 1950: Corbett shoots and kills a hitchhiker near Hamilton Air Force Base north of San Francisco. March 15, 1951: Corbett pleads guilty to second-degree murder; a judge sentences him to five years to life. Aug. 1, 1955: Corbett sneaks out of his dorm at a minimum- security prison and disappears. Late 1955: Corbett arrives in Denver, adopts the name Walter Osborne and eventually lands a job at the Benjamin Moore paint plant north of downtown. April 1, 1956: Corbett moves into a third-floor apartment at 1435 Pearl St. June 8, 1957: Corbett orders a pistol through the mail, one of several guns he purchased. Feb. 24, 1959: Corbett orders four pairs of leg irons. May 1, 1959: Three pairs of handcuffs are shipped to Corbett. Jan. 8, 1960: Corbett buys a yellow 1951 Mercury. Jan. 25, 1960: Corbett is ticketed about 3 miles from Morrison while driving the yellow Mercury. Feb. 9, 1960: Adolph Coors III leaves his Morrison-area home, headed to the family's brewery. His vehicle is later found idling on a narrow bridge. Detectives find blood and Coors' hat and glasses in the creek below. Feb. 10, 1960: Corbett moves out of his Capitol Hill apartment and vanishes. The same day, Mary Coors receives a ransom note instructing her to come up with $500,000 and to place an ad for a tractor in The Denver Post's classified section once she has the money. Feb. 14, 1960: The Coors family places the ad, offering a John Deere tractor for sale. Feb. 17, 1960: Corbett's yellow 1951 Mercury is discovered ablaze near Atlantic City, N.J. March 30, 1960: The FBI places Corbett on its 10 Most Wanted List. Sept. 11, 1960: The bones of Adolph Coors III are discovered in Douglas County. Experts conclude he was shot twice in the back. Oct. 25, 1960: FBI agents pick up Corbett's trail in Toronto, where he again used the name Walter Osborne. Oct. 29, 1960: Corbett is arrested in Vancouver, British Columbia. March 13, 1961: Corbett's murder trial opens in Golden. March 29, 1961: The jury returns a guilty verdict, meaning a life sentence. June 15, 1978: Corbett is granted parole. July 6, 1978: Corbett's parole is revoked after a public outcry. July 5, 1979: Corbett is granted parole again. July 10, 1979: Corbett is released and flies to California. July 11, 1979: Corbett flies back to Colorado to close a bank account. July 15, 1979: Corbett is arrested in California for violating parole by returning to Colorado. July 31, 1979: Corbett's parole is revoked. Dec. 12, 1980: Corbett is paroled yet again. He rents an apartment at 2801 S. Federal Blvd. Dec. 12, 1985: Corbett is released from supervision. Aug. 24, 2009: Corbett is found dead in his southwest Denver apartment, a victim of suicide.

If Cooper had been drinking a Coors light, I wonder why that would be hidden from us?

Jo said "The Captain is reported as stating he saw Cooper packing the money in what he thought was one of the front packs" I think you're doing the SafecrackingPLF thing and posting your own version of something. Post the reference and source. I don't believe that's what Scott said. in any case, I suspect the reference you're talking about, is a reporter, interpreting what Scott said. Can you post the reference? (edit) Re the FBI. I have no more complaints about the FBI since they instituted daily status meetings with the CSG, for which I'm thankful. These reports are available at the second level of CSG membership.

jo said "I also have a HARD COPY of that first thread. After I located the discussion I went to the hard copy." I think you should print a hard copy of this thread. Along with all the attachments and links. Poof happens.

hangdiver said "It is amazing to me that the bank or FBI didn't photograph the money with the bag before it was delivered." I always laugh to myself, when people want to say Cooper was incompetent. He may have lacked some skills, but comparing him to everyone else that night, he did okay. Hey I was just reading an mag article telling a story that mentioned a Cessna crashing in Wyoming, at 11,000 ft..clipped some trees. (they were looking at the ground, didn't notice they were about to run into a mtn..last minute tried to pullup, but didn't make it)... The woman pilot and a guy, they just had sneakers and light down jackets and it was cold. Snow on the ground. They walked out 20 miles in 24 hours...The guy was hoping to learn out to fly from the woman. I'm not sure that plan continued afterwards...:) Ended with a hitchhike from a delivery truck. They hadn't filed a flight plan and they knew no one was going to find them, so they had to walk out.

it's not possible to do thread-specific searches on this forum, right? So I don't know why someone would say "I searched the old thread" You can search, limiting by certain things. But to a specific thread, I think not? Am I missing something?

that account of the $17 million theft I posted had one interesting thing. some of the money was buried in a duffel and it rained..woman couldn't find it at first so it got wet. they described the money as all clumped together as a result. Since it had only been a few days, they put it in a dryer with some poker chips, and it separated okay. But the idea that wet money sticks together easily. Those 3 bundles could easily have stuck together over time. No need for the bag ever to be present near or on Tena Bar. The only reason people introduce the bag, is because they think that helps explain a transport to Tena Bar theory... And Jo thinks that there's a reasonable explanation for how a random book she has, belonged to Tina, and travelled from the plane, thru the air, to the ground and back to Florida. Along with the bag (not the money), and a ticket and parking stub. Which of course had to be saved. I always write the parking garage location on my parking stubs, otherwise I can't find my car. It makes sense that Duane would have drawn a treasure map for where he buried the money, on that parking stub. Too bad Jo threw it out. I bet it had Larch Mtn. on it.

georger, it's not an article. It's a court case. The text is from a court document. see my original post. It's from when Northwest was trying to get the insurance company to cover the $200,000.

"In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity." --Hunter S. Thompson "The idea that no solution exists never occurs to them, and in this lies their strength." --Renan "No amount of study compares with actual play for learning a game." --Albert Morehead, `How to Become a Good Poker Player` "The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it." --Abbie Hoffman "The revolution as myth is the definitive revolution" --Albert Camus "When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose." --Robert Zimmerman Alice: "Yes, but where do I begin?" Cheshire Cat: "Why, my dear, you begin at the beginning."

The world is indeed full of strange people. Read the details on David J. Hanley (he did run for president afterwards) The vehicle was a 1971 Cadillac Eldorado convertible. Did it belong to Cooper? Elvis? Hangdiver? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Pb0MAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gV8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6571,1069060&dq=mcnally+injured+hijacking&hl=en (edit) Answer: it belonged to Duane Weber.

hangdiver said "I can only imagine some guy bragging he's Cooper then has to admit he lost the money. " McNally apparently lost his money on the jump. It was in a bag, unclear if attached to him It was in a bag with two pouches inside the bag. Apparently the bag didn't burst on landing. $502,000 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ccUMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SWEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5220,716744&dq=hijack+money+found&hl=en I mentioned the air speed from the court case on this one. In that news article, the pilot says he showed the hijacker an indicator that gave a speed about 70mph slower than the actual speed of 320 mph (hard to believe, wouldn't any indicator show knots instead?) Maybe he's saying the indicator read 250 knots which aligns with the court case. It's funny there, they say "almost surely cause anyone parachuting from the craft to black out when he was hit by the plane's jetstream" (the pilot said this..how would he know?) McNally landed okay, made it back across state lines, (indiana to michigan) was arrested though. Had some injuries. McNally was the 10th since 11/24/71 that demanded chute+money (not all got it or jumped). 28 years old. McNally demanded and was given instruction on how to operate the parachutes. I believe an undercover FBI guy was one of the two who showed him out to work it. (edit) Jo: I posted above about the bag fiasco. SafecrackingPLF created the myth.

let me guess. Your "doctor" was with you in that car that "fell" out of the skyvan, right? Man, weird how coincidences happen like that.

Interesting story about what kind of guy thinks he can get away with stealing $17 million in cash (true story, in 1997) Google Books has most of the pages, so you can start reading at page 1 and scroll thru http://books.google.com/books?id=FHmrc2f8CmIC&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=&f=false Now what kind of guy would steal $20Million to build a tunnel in South Africa? Or smuggle drugs to rent C-130s to help set a new record bigway? :) Jo said "Notice that Georger, nor I, nor Sluggo, nor Safecrack and others who are vested in this investigation are currently posting. " vested, invested...you say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to...as long as the subs get paid in SA, the tunnel gets built!

wear a helmet and boots?..and always use a static line.

It's really funny how we can't keep basic facts straight. I think it's because there's just a couple. You get those right, and everyone starts creating bullshit theories, which is fine. But that's all there is. And then we argue about whether someone's bullshit theory is fact or theory. And then we argue about whether it's a good theory. But all theories are possible. There's not enough evidence to exclude anything. What a perfect crime. Except for the possible dying part.

SafecrackingPLF introduced the idea of handles. I believe there is no post where Ckret mentioned handles. I have searched. here's what Ckret said on Nov 28,2007 (note that it's the locked thread) http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3029831;search_string=zipper;#3029831 Seafirst security packaged the money (all of the serial numbers on the bills had been prerecorded by Seafirst) into a white cloth bag with no zipper or draw string. here's where I believe SafecrackingPLF misquoted http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3149616;search_string=handles;#3149616 SafecrackingPLF posts: Ckret specifically said "handles with no zipper" I always cut and past whenever I quote someone, especially if I use double quotes. Note SafecrackingPLF paraphrased, and used double quotes. I think he introduced myth. Probably because he was brainwashed by the mistress. Or? was there more to the misdirection? (edit) we also know the site search index was rebuilt about a year ago or so. So even if Ckret editted in "handle" we should be able to hit it with a search (there was a search issue on editted stuff a while back. not sure if still there)

Sarah P's taking a page from Elvis and hitting the Strip early in her career. Viva Las Vegas! And there's going to be free beer! http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/12/palin

Do storm drain efluents end up in the Columbia or do they have to go through any treatment facilities, debris screens or settling ponds? There is a lot of road oil and junk in storm drain water. Don't know what the regs were in 71. 377 I suspect a bunch straight thru. We looked at this when we were analyzing Vancouver lake stuff. There were maps of storm drains. It's an important part of the whole water flow system. It's pretty rare to process water thru storm drains, isn't it. hence all the "drains to bay" stuff, and why they don't want you to dump used oil in storm drains...goes right out.