SafecrackingPLF

I think another problem is the perpetual use of the original sketch... but that's my total opinion. I'm sorry you have to weed through people who do not fit the description. If it means anything to you, when the FBI released the wanted poster, they had the description posted along with the sketch... They tried. I certainly don't consider the revised sketch a "photo", but when a guy beat out a database on biometric characteristics, the odds are fairly against that happening... and it still happened. Certainly not proof, but not "well, anyone could do that" either. I will also add, my fun and games included comparisons to all discussed suspects (except mccoy)... you can see for yourselves, some suspects are just better matches the sketch. Christiansen & Weber are the best ones (out of the ones discussed here).

Yes. It was discussed in the previous thread and was mentioned on these threads several times. Those clickies I posted above (specifically post 345) discusses how I also played around with the photos using Schaffner's photo from 1988. The results were discussed in post 345. "The only sketch that really produced anything different was the Florence Schaffner sketch of 1988. When I ran Cook's suspect against Christiansen using the Schaffner sketch, Galen's guy beat him by 5%. I then ran the same test against Weber and it was a statistical tie." Now that you've listened to the radio show, the post will make more sense... this candidate is weak, only because Cook made a less than convincing argument. It doesn't mean it wasn't his guy, just that there needs to be A LOT more disclosure or "storytelling".

You must not read the posts Orange1. Galen Cook Suspect For those opposed to clickies, it's post 337 of this thread. I also did a fun and games type of photo analysis of this suspect's photo against others. It can be found here or at post 345.

On the face of it, the "odds" would be against all suspects. What are the odds that any one guy is the guy? Not good. With these particular suspects, I agree with you, let's get some actual stuff out on the table to at least support the "story"... Unfortunately for us, there's only one of the people here on this board... the others would have to be rounded up. Meyers was here earlier in the year and made a few posts, but it would seem he's gone. He was emphatic that he "solved" the case. I agree with Ckret, let's see the solution. Put it on the table. I will say this, if any of these guys, or anyone else, could ever be proved, what a day that would be!... One last thing, Ckret... please let me know if there are any developments with the landing zone data. I base all of my "opinions" and deductions on what's at hand... if something is shaky, I would like to know. Thanks.

Thank you for clearing that up Ckret. I would hope readers of this thread can tell when we're talking about "just the facts" and when we're putting on our "theory" hats and working it out... There's definitely two lines that we tend to follow, each has its fun, and in a way, each has its merit. Orange1, I appreciate you clarifying... just someone having something on one FBI agent to help conceal a crime. Let me go "on record" (ha ha ha) that I do not, have not, and (more than likely) will not ever believe that some guy in the FBI tried or is trying to "cover up" the truth. That's me. I realize there are people on this board who believe the opposite. Meyers & Skyjack71 being two of the prominent ones... Meyers believes like you said, Himmelsbach covered for Mayfield through being a dimwit, and has insinuated that the two *may* have been in on it to some degree (some degree would be very small, he's never said they were crime partners or anything)... and then Skyjack has said people have told her things and she thinks losing the cigarettes was a sign of missing evidence (or cover up). I personally don't buy it and never will... not unless some guy in the Bureau gets busted for tampering or something... although, I must say, how in the world does the FBI lose the cigarettes?? That's very odd to me. I don't see why they would have left the Seattle office... and if they did, wouldn't there be a record of who sent for them??? I don't believe a conspiracy, but the cigarettes do call into question just how secure some of this evidence may have been... it would be nice to locate them, or at least figure out what happened to them.

Thanks, that makes sense. Okay, a piece of paper should be easy to obtain. Hopefully skyjack71 will scan some stuff in so that at least there's a "shred"... I do stand by my opinion that Anne Faass is on record as having witnessed the money in a bucket comment. I also stand my opinion that a televised show (not some delusion of grandeur) did have an improbable 1 in 3,000 FRS outcome (whether or not that means anything would be up for debate). I also stand by the geography of clark county, timeline of money deposit, and condition of the money... until there's one "shred" of evidence to suggest otherwise, I see no reason to change my opinion... and I'm glad to change my opinion if someone can show me something. Isn't it too bad Lyle Christiansen, Matt Meyers, etc are not here... I'd pour over their stuff too...

I wasn't aware the FBI had Cooper's signature... AWESOME! Handwriting analysis is now in play, that's good to know. Also, with regard to the sign in ledger, I've been told (which obviously does not make it true) that the Portland FBI took that paperwork. When asked about it by Skyjack, the former agent on this case told her they would have just thrown it out... (and she always complains on these boards about that)... I think maybe there were some agents working this case in the past that were just.... hmmmm.... smart asses. But skyjack71 would actually take them seriously... I'd recommend to get whatever files from Portland that they'll let you borrow... and just see if there's anything interesting in there. Wouldn't have to be this stuff, there could be a lot of interesting things...

Doesn't matter who fits circumstantial evidence the best. It's a matter of opinion, and that's okay. One thing though... When did I advocate a conspiracy theory? Conspiracy theories have a lot of moving parts and involve more than one person. An example would be: Cooper lost the money. It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because someone had to find it, not report it, decide it was lousy, and then get rid of it. Two people and lots of moving parts = conspiracy. Cooper died. It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because someone finds the body and the money, does not report either, takes the money, at some point decides to get rid of it. Two people and lots of moving parts = conspiracy. Not only have I never advocated a conspiracy theory on this board, but others advocate them all day long and then point the finger at others for doing what they do... Here's one: But the plane was in a different location! It's a conspiracy theory. Why? Because the radar was furnished by an official with the USAF. He would have had to "lie" or "doctor" the radar. Then, everyone else who calculated the landing zone would have had to equally doctor things... Rataczak would have to lie about quickly getting on with ATC to report the oscillation (which would affect the timeline)... and all of these moving parts just to move the jump location (which may or may not even be enough)... Loads of moving parts, several people involved through unknowing screw-ups = conspiracy theory.

Fair enough. Obviously if anyone ever had a picture of Cooper, the case would be solved. The FRS result is significant for one simple fact... the probability... It's not proof, never said it was proof, only that it's improbable that a guy who confessed would also beat out an entire database in an FRS comparison to the sketch. Does it mean the sketch was 100% spot on? Nope. In fact, Weber's match to the sketch was only the top choice, it was not an exact match... the odds of such an occurance are still 1 in 3,000. Call me stubborn, but in my line of work, 1 in 3,000 is significant. Not proof, but not "ah, any Tom, Dick, and Harry could do that"... nope.

Correct. There is a witness, still alive, who places him just down the street from PDX the night before the crime. According to the witness, the suspicious man requested a late check out and demanded that no one disturb him until after 12pm on Nov 24th (he wanted to sleep late). According to the witness, the man was upset when the hotel concierge joked about his name sounding like the drink, Tom Collins. Alledgedly, the suspicious man said "well, my name isn't Tom, it's John". The hotel clerk saw a picture of weber several years ago, showed his wife, and then called the newspaper and skyjack71 to say "that's the strange guy I remember"... Weber's primary alias was John Collins. Fairly sure there's at least one witness who places him at PDX the night before/day of the crime. That's at least a mile or so from a plane... so I suppose it's a matter of perspective if he was anywhere "near an airplane on that date".

My understanding is that the hotel concierge gave a statement the Portland FBI within days after the crime. My understanding is also that he was in the USA last month and was willing to reiterate his statement, but nothing ever came of it. Skyjack should be able to scan in some of those tax returns for you... that would be a piece of paper that shows he had $17k lying around right after the crime. It's not a piece of paper, but two weeks ago, a re-run of unsolved history aired, 1:3000 odds there with the FRS match. Anne Faass is formally on record as a witness to Weber's rambling about buring 178k in a bucket. This was reported by Doug Pasternak of US News and World Report (not exactly the national enquirer), he now works for Homeland Security... he'd probably take a call from an FBI agent. Link here Just to clear this up, I'm not putting forward any candidate, it could be him or not be him... I'm just writing what has been stated previously. I would do the same for Christiansen, Mayfield, or anyone else if there was more information on these guys (skyjack is actually here to talk and answer questions).

Absolutely correct. If he wanted to lie on his deathbed, then he could have. That's for people to figure out on their own if they believe it or not. I'm fairly sure skyjack is not making up the confession because there was a witness to his comments about the money in a bucket. Now, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can claim they are Cooper. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry can be the top biometric match to the sketch out of a database of people. The odds: 1 in 3,000 When you inspect any Tom, Dick, and Harry's tax returns or financial dealings in the 12 months following the crime, not any Tom, Dick, and Harry had a minimum of $17,000 cash lying around to spend on cars and houses. Not any Tom, Dick, and Harry was indentified by a hotel concierge following the crime both in photo and by name. When you look at the story behind any Tom, Dick, and Harry and how they say the money wound up where it did, and then you reverse engineer what else had to hold true, Tom, Dick, and Harry have been wrong every single time. In fact, I will say it again... NOT one suspect and their alledged explaination of the money is adequate, OTHER THAN Weber's. Did Tom, Dick, and Harry figure out back in the 70s and 80s everything posted on this board regarding creeks, rivers, streams, sand strata, condition of bills, location of the plane, timeline of the jump??? Let's take a look. Keep in mind, this is how things stand right now (we could very well get compelling evidence soon that challenges the landing area) McCoy: theory is he "lost the money" Fact: Cooper could not have lost the money unless someone else found it and then threw it away Mayfield: theory is he "buried the money" when he landed Fact: landing sight was 12 miles away; money was deposited in 1979, not 1971 Cook's unnamed suspect: theory is he put some stacks of cash in his pocket and the cash came out when he jumped Fact: Cooper did not even place money in his pocket (as per Ckret) and even if he did, the jump was 12 miles away, bills were found together, and they were deposited in 1979 with rubberbands still intact. Weber: theory is he came back to Vancouver in late fall of 1979; went to the river and also went digging at some point (came back with dirt all over himself), 4 or 5 months later, ransom was found. Fact: Money was deposited in 1979; an out of state Cooper fits the general theory of a surviving Cooper leaving money behind; a returning Cooper finding money in 79 would explain why it was discarded (ruined); being up the river digging the ransom up would potentially explain how money was deposited in 1979 if he threw the bucket into the water and let it float away. Like I said, you're right, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can make up a story... but there are some things here that cannot be made up, or are improbable to make up.

I took the day off, will get back to everyone tomorrow. Reading through quickly: Mt St Helens is North and East of the landing area. The blast was on the North side of the mountain and the SW winds blew the ash AWAY from the landing area (Clark County). Second, from my understanding, when Weber said "Oh F###! Let it die with me!" was after he tried to confess and it was obvious she had no freaking clue what he was talking about. Why say anything? He tried and then gave up. Then the nurses came in and he was drugged up for the remainder of his life. A few days later, with others in the room, he began mumbling about burying 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket.

FYI, I had some minor errors in my original post. They have been corrected... it had been a while since I did some TVM calculations, so there was a boo-boo. I have gone and researched mortgage rates for the early 70s. My 9% is a conservative estimate. From what I can tell, the spread was about 160 pts and the 10 yr bond rates averaged about 6.2%. That would equate to a mortgage rate of about 7.8%. That means his monthly payment would have been less than the $90 on the 20/80 loan. At 8%, his payment would have been about $82 a month. According to the article, "$212 a month and all you can carry" That would leave only $129 a month in discretionary income (although its not truly discretionary since he has RE taxes, income taxes, utilities, etc). There's been some dispute over the $212 amount. I don't think he'd have made much more than 375 a month (just going off average salaries), but either way, he could cover the payments. The question would be, did he earn enough to save for the outlay?

I can't do any math on Mayfield because Matt Meyers disappeared after his friend died. Apparently, at roughly the same time as all of this, Mayfield and a small group started the DZ on leased property. He already owned a plane for ten years; it wasn't a new purchase as far as I know. Like I said, cannot do the math because none has been made public.

I wish Lyle Christiansen were here to verify the stuff written in the article. Okay, new home purchased for 14k. Let's assume a standard 20/80 loan. That means $2,800 as a down payment. About a year later, he comes up with $1500 and purchases (adjacent lot??) some land. Total outlay: $4,300 MINIMUM. $15,500 if it was all in cash. The article did not specify, but I would think if it were in cash, the author (who wanted Christiansen to be Cooper) would have stressed it. If it was a 20/80 loan (pretty much standard in the old days), it would mean: Loan Amount $11,200 Interest Rate 9% (total WAG, but reasonable) Monthly Payment: $90.12 How much was he making a month at his job? I was off by $300... total minimum outlay for his real estate holdings, $4300, not $4000.

Yes, according to the article, he bought a home for $14,000 (didn't mention if this was outright or with a loan) and then a year later bought some land for $1200 (I'm fairly sure there would be no loan on this). As for the cars paid in cash... from what I was told, this came from the ex-wife's testimony; the cars were purchased in cash. I think Jo's just trying to be funny about Ckret solving an old robbery.... Maybe he robbed a bank in late 71 and went on a spending spree. Then, maybe he robbed another one in Fort Collins in Feb 1980 and skipped town. That's two potential bank robberies that could be finally solved.

Okay, one last time... somewhere between December of 71 & filing of 71 taxes (that would be April 72), two brand new cars were purchased. There were no loans, they purchased in cash. From Skyjack's post, earned income was 3,773 for the entire year of 1971, yet, they bought two brand new cars. I once looked up the retail prices of these cars, and it was roughly $5000 for the both of them. 3700 + 1300 of phantom income = 5000. Seems a little odd to me. Then, she listed a lot of stuff for the 72 return, but omitted the amount in home remodel that was deducted. The 72 return would have been filed around 4/1973... $12,000 for home remodel spent in 1972. Here's what you have... a guy spent 5000 cash within months of the crime. He then went on to spend 12k within a year of the crime on his home. This is stuff where there's a paper trail. What about things where there's no paper trail?? As you can see, he kept purchasing cars in the subsequent years, but I get lost in all of it... In my mind it looks something like this: Made $3,000 in 1971. By the end of 1972, he had spent at least $17,000 on new stuff (new home remodel, new cars)... He later said that he was Dan Cooper and that he buried 178k in a bucket. Invariably, that would mean that if he told the truth, he only walked out with as little as $22,000 of the ransom. Whether he did it or not, the taxes won't prove anything. It's not like the guy put "Cooper profits" on his return... he confessed in 1995 and in looking at his financial records, you can clearly see he went on a spending spree in the months after the crime. That's my entire point. Nothing more. Nothing less. But to impy that $17,000 isn't a significant amount is a bit of stretch, IMO. Volume of the entire ransom is somewhere around 1.5 square feet. Correction, dimensions in Centimeters would have been 13 cm wide by 31 cm long, and about 44 cm high. 13x31x44= 17,732 cubic cm... somewhere around there. Weight would be 21.9 lbs when rounded up slightly.

Why did you say it ballooned? That's what I posted... their W2s was somewhere around $3000 (maybe my post understated this a few hundred) and that he augmented his return by about 50%. That's not really ballooning it. I'd go off of the numbers I put in the PM, what I posted here was more general. Incidentally, the price of the two new cars in 1971? About $5000. Thus, it would appear, he manufactured income to at least match the price of the two new cars. That return was filed 5 months after the hijacking (his 1971 tax return). In his 1972 return, that's where the 12,000 in home remodeling shows up.

but it could very easily have been some rather minor fraud/robbery rather than the DB Cooper hijack." I understand what you're saying. Like almost every criminal or alledged criminal, people can come up with multiple explanations. That's perfectly okay. In this particular example, you also have a guy who confessed, and a few days after his confession he began mumbling something about burying 178k in a bucket... if it were true, the amounts on the tax returns would not be inconsistent with the "story" but would actually be extremely supportive of the story. If he spent 200k and it showed up on his tax return, then perhaps it would make everyone think twice, but it would also go against the story (and the evidence given that at the very least we know Cooper did not spend all the money)

That's because those are two tangible pieces of evidence that can easily weed out the "he lost the money" and the "he died" theories. Not to worry though, there are a handful of posters on this board working to see if there's a weakness in the jump timeline... and even though you think the money was dredged up, no one else here has confirmed that it's even possible. The money was above the dredge layer, not in it, and others have discussed how the cash would have been damaged in a dredge. The timeline is being worked on as we speak. I'm eager to see how it shakes out, but also am weary that the work is accurate. In 1971 they used radar supplied by the USAF... I would want something extremely solid to trump that data. But that's me... others on the board just want a little hope that he died that night... like I said before, that's okay. Everyone has their opinions, it's a mystery and people should be able to come up with all sorts of theories without having useless facts get in the way.

What skyjack made of the confession in subsequent years may or may not have been what he intended. Like many of his actions, sayings, or odd behaviors, deciphering his motivation is a toughie... My understanding is it went sort of like this: Doctors inform him that he's as good as dead. He's given no more than 5 days to live. He takes out some paperwork that says he wishes to remain off of support and to let him die naturally. He hands them over and the nurses leave him with his wife. It's an emotional moment. He just handed over his life and he doesn't have much time left. He then asks skyjack if there's anyone else around. She says no, thinking that he actually wants to light up a raleigh cigarette (ok, I made up the raleigh part) Instead, he tells her to come closer. He says into her ear, "I have a secret to tell you" Puzzled, she looks... he continues, "I'm Dan Coup-per" Now really puzzled, she looks at him crosseyed and says something to the effect of, what are you talking about? He then goes on a monologue talking about airplanes, parachutes, and stolen money. Confused, she tries to comfort him, while at the same time telling him that he's talking non-sense. After some time, he gives up. Pissed off that his confession failed, he yells out "Aw $#$#!!!! Let it die with me" At that moment, one of the nurses hanging outside hears the upset Weber and comes in with a syringe of morphine. A quick shot and he was drugged up for the rest of his life... literally. At some point, with one other witness in the room, he begins talking again about the case... (I'm not sure who he was talking to here, maybe skyjack could tell us)... he says he buried 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket. About a year later, skyjack71 is (on a date????) with a friend and she starts telling the story... it was at that point that he said "did you ever think that maybe he was DB Cooper?" The lightbulb goes off... Dan Cooper, DB Cooper, how silly not to have figured that out. And here we are. Skyjack, correct any of the above if it's wrong.. I typed it out because there were several questions in the last few days and it was clear to me that people were unaware of the story. Whether or not he was Cooper remains a mystery. Why he made the confession, also a mystery... and it's one of those that will never be figured out. Hopefully we can solve the Cooper case though.

Your comments reminded me that the trip and his words "that's where Cooper came out of the woods" was only 4 or 5 months prior to the find, so it would have been somewhat fresh in your memory back then. I have asked skyjack more regarding this move in a private conversation. She told me she has found several papers and letters from the time period that were written in search of a job. I, of course, asked why does she have copies of this stuff if he sent them out... they are carbon copies. He likely used materials from work. Anyway, she told me the dates. The earliest date was Feb 14th. The FBI held their press conference on the 12th. The newspapers picked up the story on the 13th. On the 14th, Weber was looking for a new job in a different state. Certainly not proof, but certainly consistent with his confession I'd say. If his move had anything to do with the found money, then he made the decision to get out really quickly but then took some extra time before quitting and moving (few weeks). From the sounds of it, money was not an issue. She called it "mill"... where I'm from we call it "pipeline"... as in, I have a lot of business in the pipeline (future earnings in the making). If a person has a lot of income coming up soon, they're less likely to quit for financial reasons. If he was Cooper or not remains a mystery. But his motive couldn't have been money or family life... I stand by my guess, FEAR. 377 & Grimmie, I'm not sure what to make of the photos, I only know what I wrote.

Dan Devorak showed up at Florence's house one day. Had with him three photos I believe. He showed her the three photos to get her to comment. She apparently said "definitely not" when she saw McCoy. She apparently said "no" when she saw Weber. She apparently said "I don't know" when she saw Mayfield. The only photo of these three that I'm sure about was the Mayfield photo. I believe it was from 74 or something like that. I don't know what photos were used for the other two. It should be noted also that this took place at least 32 years after the fact (and I believe it was even later than this), and Schaffner has been the source of countless people showing her photos over the years. I've also heard that the New York writer who came out with a story of Christiansen also did a comparison. According to the story, he took a photo of Weber on his cell phone and showed it to Schaffner and she said no. He then showed her tangible pictures of Kenneth and she apparently said "the best I've ever seen". No other record of how these were presented or the exact words or pictures used... all of that is unknown. I've posted the photo of Christiansen before, but the Mayfield photo shown to Schaffner has never been seen on DZ (but elsewhere)... it's attached for your review.

377 & BigSky, I have often asked myself many of these same questions. I always try to put on one hypothetical hat and think it through and then try on another. I tend to get fairly far this way, but other opinions are always helpful. The specifics of Weber's criminal history would help wear that particular "hat". He made very little money in 1971, according to his taxes, and from what skyjack has mentioned previously (his step son posted on the other thread I believe). They were basically poor at the time. My understanding is that him and his wife had a combined income of about $3,000 in 1971 and they both worked. In late 71/early 72 he purchased two brand new cars and paid in cash. The tax return he filed in April of 72 (5 months after the crime), listed his regular income & W2s along with some very odd numbers. The entry in question was a declaration that they sold items around their house and augmented their income by 50%. I've pondered this many times... If I sell some stuff around my house, things that I own, the sales price is not taxable income. One could argue the "profit" I make from the sale of junk around the house would be taxable... but generally "items around the house" tend to depreciate in value (unless we're talking about antiques or art work or something). They lived in a trailer. I'm not sure what items could possibly appreciate in value that they'd have in their trailer home. In addition to the two new cars, Weber paid off his trailer at the same time. I've had people such as Orange tell me there's nothing interesting about these tax returns. Maybe on other continents taxes aren't what they are here... very few would claim income that's not taxable and not tracable on their return. The authorities never nabbed Al Capone for his crimes, they got him for tax evasion. Mr. Capone filed paltry returns (or no returns) even though he was living high on the hog. This is the only explanation I can think of for creating phantom income on a tax return (once you write it down, it creates a financial alibi if you will). The following year, his return shows he spent $12k on home remodel (he moved into a house). I find this to be almost as damming... a new house could be purchased back then for $14k and he spent nearly that much on his home remodel. He went from trailer and broke to house flush full of cash. Orange1 has also told me these amounts and entries are frivolous. I have to disagree. A few days after the deathbed confession, Duane was mumbling about burying 173 or 178 thousand in a bucket (the amount differs depending on which of the two witnesses you ask). If he told the truth after the nurses told him he was a dead man, then it would mean he only walked out of there with maybe $22k, or 11 stacks of cash. The rest was left behind. He lived in Georgia. How he would launder the money is unknown. Taking the Duane hat off now, I too would like answers to the questions posted above by 377 & Bigsky, and hopefully my limited understanding of his financial status added to the conversation some. One last thing, if those people who believe Mayfield, Christiansen, or the unknown guy would ever tell me more about their financial status in 71/72, I would be equally as interested... but all those people are pretty much hush hush or can't be reached/not available.