marks2065

to bad they are laying there without work because the illegals got there job Really? Not because they are often lazy fucks and wouldn't lower themselves to do the jobs that the 'others' are willing to do? or maybe because the jobs do not pay well because they employer does not have to pay a legal wage because of the illegals working for less than min wage.

to bad they cannot admit guilt because of the lawyers like obama, because if they admitted guilt the lawyers would have a field day.

to bad they are laying there without work because the illegals got there job

That is what is happening now, the citizens are the ones that have to leave and I do see a problem with that.

Fixed it for ya A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms. Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it. The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border. Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does. Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either. but there is a greater chance you did if you are mexican. just out of the fact that it is best to do things efficiently, I would concentrate my time and money working in the area that I would get the largest results and work out from there. that being said since most illegals are from mexico I would start there and work my way to the lower number of illegals like polish or french. So you feel that it ok to violate the civil rights of Americans in order to catch the people who are here illegally because that is the most efficient way to solve the problem? I will again bring up that many crimes could be prevented by the govt tapping all citizen's phones but I for one would be opposed to them taking such measures. So where do you draw the line? What rights is it ok to violate? so you think it is ok to violate people ? not just their rights? American citizens have the right to walk down the streets without being kidnaped robbed, raped, or killed. they also have the right to go to a hospital and get treated without a 2 hour wait because the room is full of illegals getting care in front of them that the citizen is paying for. I figure if I am paying for the illegals care and mine I should at least come first so I can get back to work so I can afford to pay my bills.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected. The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered. For 20+ years we've been hoping this problem would go away; it hasn't. A big part of the reason is folks who are afraid to hurt someone else's feelings. It hasn't worked and it doesn't work on this issue so now we have the current reality that says if you are in AZ, you look like a Mexican and you're doing something illegal, involved in something illegal, or just hanging around a bunch of people who might be up to no good we're going to (gasp ) ask you a few questions and want to see some documentation that you are here legally. If you are a citizen please accept our apologies. I'm sorry that it has gotten to this but the failure of the federal government to handle the issue has forced Arizona's hand, and I'll bet a few other states along the border will be starting their own version soon. It's not popular, it's not pretty, it certainly isn't fashionable, but there it is. Better fix? Let's hear it. +1 people bitch and moan about problems and then stand in the way of fixing the problems. America is feed up and wants the problems to start getting fixed. Either come up with a workable solution that is better or shut the fuck up is my attitude. anything has someone that doesn't like it, you can never have 100% of the people to like anything. America has gotten to the point that if 1 person doesn't like something we tell the other 300 million sorry. We are supposed to live in a democracy and that means the popular vote wins and those that didn't like the vote can accept the results and work harder to achieve there goals to get a larger vote next time or leave the country. In case somebody hasn't notice there are well over 100 other fucked up countries they can go to that actually do have the govermnet that better suites their ideals.

Fixed it for ya A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms. Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it. The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border. Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does. Agreed, but looking Mexican doesn't mean you broke the law either. but there is a greater chance you did if you are mexican. just out of the fact that it is best to do things efficiently, I would concentrate my time and money working in the area that I would get the largest results and work out from there. that being said since most illegals are from mexico I would start there and work my way to the lower number of illegals like polish or french.

The issue is not how the illegals are affected by laws like Arizona's. The issue is how legal residents and citizens are affected. The gun registration issue is a good parallel. Having a gun does not mean you broke the law, but being of Mexican descent does not mean you broke the law either. The Arizona law essentially requires all citizens, whether they broke the law or not, to carry proof of citizenship documents and present them upon command. It is very similar to requiring all guns, not matter who owns them, to be registered. You mean legal residents being affected by things like, less murders, less abuse of emergency rooms, less rapes, less kidnappings, things that I am sure are not high on the legal peoples lists of important things.

Fixed it for ya A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms. Does it give you the right to bear arms without them being registered? BTW, I have no problem with the right to bear arms. I have a problem with people saying things like "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" I could have just as easily said tapping everyone's phones as registering guns, but I figured given some of the gun nuts around here it would have more impact the way I said it. The other issue here is that someone with a gun doesn't mean he broke the law, it is legal to have a gun. The illegal has broken the law from the moment he stepped over the border. Everytime I get caught speeding I get a ticket, evertime an illegal gets caught being illegal he gets let go. Doesn't really seem fair does it. I am a citizen and he is not, shouldn't I get free pass before he does or at least I should get as many free passes as the illegal does.

Fixed it for ya A little difference here, the constitution doesn't give the illegals the right to free health and welfare and a job, but it does give us the right to bear arms.

we have the ability with what we have right now to secure the borders without the military. Our problem isn't that we need laws is that we need to actually enforce them. Like I have posted before, the police and border patrols have their hands tied by the courts and government officials that do not let them do their job. Very few illegals get deported even when they are in police custody. the border patrol is not on the border they are up to 60 miles away from the border.

We're all a part of this society, we can't ignore some parts an recognoze others. Baseball doesn't ignore any race color or creed. Baseball hires blacks, whites, orientals, hispanics, jews, catholics, protestants, irish, methodists and so-on and so-on. Why should they have to 'pay'? Politics has absolutely no business in baseball or any other sport. The new law in Arizona has nothing to do with baseball. Some elements of our society just take things too damned far. Chuck They aren't paying, they are showing social repsonsibility. why is color an issue? illegal is illegal, by the way, were are your papers? from what you post i think you might need to go also.

where "contact" for an officer doesn't mean walking past someone on the street. Andy and others.... please understand the terminology difference. Well, what does it mean, then? Does "contact" mean arresting someone? Interviewing a crime victim or witness? Detaining a suspect? Talking to the girl behind the counter at the dount shop? It's difficult to have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to define a key term, then scolds others for not understanding what he meant by that term. I can't read your minds, guys. If you refuse to define what you mean by "contact" I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion, because it's pointless. If you want to define what you mean by that term, I'll be happy to continue to talk. Andy, I think you have been hanging out with lawyers a little to long. lawyers make their money living in the gray area while keeping problems from being solved. The law is simple, if a cop pulls you over he asks for the need information, you provide it or get a ticket or go to jail. This bill is just giving the local cops the ability to enforce the already in place laws of the federal governmenmt that they are not enforcing. Will there be some that abuse it, yes, just like every other part of life. Every group of people has its bad elements that abuse situations but that does not mean we stop making or get rid of laws. The problem today is not that we have laws, the problem today is nobdy can enforce the laws we have.

officers have been stopping people under reasonable suspicion for years. There is case law in your state defining what that means. This is a power play meant to put egg on the face of immigration, or make them do their jobs. What would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone being here illegally? Blues, Dave Dave's question hits the nail on the head. This Op/Ed piece by Stephen Chapman asks this question, and suggests there are no good answers. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-0429-chapman-20100429,0,6182155.column Gov. Brewer has stated that she will not allow racial profiling. Fine. But then how are cops supposed to generate a "reasonable suspicion" that someone may be an illegal alien? Does everyone with a foreign accent get detained? This law will likely prove unworkable in practice. If you read the article, it indicates that even the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes the law, purely on the practical grounds Dave has raised. Leaving the political arguments aside, I don't see how this law can work without essentially forcing cops to engage in racial profiling. ask everyone they come in contact with to see their drivers license, if they don't have one there is a good possibility they are illegal. Hey, Mark, how's things going? Hope you and Holly are well. I know you are a conservative guy, but are you really in favor of the police asking "everyone they come into contact with" for their papers? All due respect, but you may want to think that one through a bit. The historical context of government officials asking random individuals for their "papers, please" is a little unsettling to many of us, even some conservatives, I'd guess. I get asked for my papers everytime I get pulled over already, my license, ins card and sometimes even vehicle registration. I can not even get back into the country without my passport, I have no problem having illegals getting the same treatment. Your original proposal was that police officers should ask "everyone they come into contact with" for their papers. I understood that to mean that you were arguing that the police should ask "everyone" they run into for their papers -- people walking down the street, crime victims, witnesses to crimes, people minding their own business, etc. Are you now modifying your original proposal or did I misunderstand you? everyday police come in contact with many people just by doing their job and now that job will include asking for legal status.

They will need several thousand more cops if they are to ask everyone they have contact with. I think cops have much better things to do. with the increase in crime attributed directly to illegal imigration they are going to need the increase in police forces anyway.

officers have been stopping people under reasonable suspicion for years. There is case law in your state defining what that means. This is a power play meant to put egg on the face of immigration, or make them do their jobs. What would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone being here illegally? Blues, Dave Dave's question hits the nail on the head. This Op/Ed piece by Stephen Chapman asks this question, and suggests there are no good answers. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-0429-chapman-20100429,0,6182155.column Gov. Brewer has stated that she will not allow racial profiling. Fine. But then how are cops supposed to generate a "reasonable suspicion" that someone may be an illegal alien? Does everyone with a foreign accent get detained? This law will likely prove unworkable in practice. If you read the article, it indicates that even the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes the law, purely on the practical grounds Dave has raised. Leaving the political arguments aside, I don't see how this law can work without essentially forcing cops to engage in racial profiling. ask everyone they come in contact with to see their drivers license, if they don't have one there is a good possibility they are illegal. Hey, Mark, how's things going? Hope you and Holly are well. I know you are a conservative guy, but are you really in favor of the police asking "everyone they come into contact with" for their papers? All due respect, but you may want to think that one through a bit. The historical context of government officials asking random individuals for their "papers, please" is a little unsettling to many of us, even some conservatives, I'd guess. I get asked for my papers everytime I get pulled over already, my license, ins card and sometimes even vehicle registration. I can not even get back into the country without my passport, I have no problem having illegals getting the same treatment.

imagine that, the left spinning things to look bad for the republicans. You are correct. It has But everyone needs to understand why the Dem side of the isle is so opposed to this And it has nothing to do with civil rights It has everything to do with votes and elections I believe the law simply allows police to ask for proof of citizenship once they already have a person of interest. For example if you pull a drunk driver over you use to not be able to ask EVEN when obvious that the person is not from here (like does not speak English) for proof of citizenship, now you can. Doesn’t sound that crazy to me. The law is not much different then the federal law. It has always been illegal to be here illegally believe it or not. Now the police can actually enforce the law. I don’t see it as that crazy. I have to say that there is a lot of spin on this, so people are just getting the most outrageous views on the law and it is a knee jerk subject for many.

officers have been stopping people under reasonable suspicion for years. There is case law in your state defining what that means. This is a power play meant to put egg on the face of immigration, or make them do their jobs. What would constitute reasonable suspicion of someone being here illegally? Blues, Dave Dave's question hits the nail on the head. This Op/Ed piece by Stephen Chapman asks this question, and suggests there are no good answers. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-oped-0429-chapman-20100429,0,6182155.column Gov. Brewer has stated that she will not allow racial profiling. Fine. But then how are cops supposed to generate a "reasonable suspicion" that someone may be an illegal alien? Does everyone with a foreign accent get detained? This law will likely prove unworkable in practice. If you read the article, it indicates that even the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes the law, purely on the practical grounds Dave has raised. Leaving the political arguments aside, I don't see how this law can work without essentially forcing cops to engage in racial profiling. ask everyone they come in contact with to see their drivers license, if they don't have one there is a good possibility they are illegal.

Illegal imigratition costs california billions in welfare food stamps medical judicial and inmate costs, and not just 1 billion but tens of billions each year. unemployment is higher because of illegal workers. California could probably balance their budget if the illegals were sent home. Also just because they should not get food stamps and welfare doesn't mean they don't. Any anchor baby makes the funds available. Most anchor babies are paid for by us. and just because the feds don't reimburse for indegent care doesn't mean we are not paying for it. If the hospital doesn't show a loss from the care the health costs go down thus reducing our insurance premiums. either way we save and mexico or were ever they came from pays.

won't be good if Obama gets the reduction in tax rebates for charitable donations he wants

Was she, in fact, a bigot? yes. why? because her and many more in her country are tired of people from the outside changing the values and government of their country to something they don't want, like, or agree with?

the savings on things like health care and food stamps alone will pay for the deportation of millions. the jobs opened up that are taken by citizens will reduce welfare and unemployment costs. it is cheaper to hire a grayhound bus to take a bussload back to mexico than paying for 1 baby to be born here.

why would we do that when we have 10% unemployment? why not let the citizens work and make the rest come here legally and become citizens. why should we give our jobs to non citizens? A) Most jobs they take US citizens don't want B) This issue isn't since your president/party fucked everything up, illgal imigtaion has been an issue forever. Reagan's fix was to just make them all legal, wanna do that? sounds good as long as anyone that has commited any crimes, collected welfare, or us the medical system for free are sent back and the rest become citizens, pay taxes, learn english, and take their citizenship test in english. in otherwords, become americans not mexicans in america.

Kinda like legalizing drugs, makes shipping them in unprofitable. Coyotes would be put out of work if immigration became easier/ more possible. the origonal immigration laws were wrote to protect america and its people. limit the flow to a managable number that wouldn't overstress the country or its resources. Being an american citizen is a honor and those coming here should treat it as that. IMO the biggest difference between other groups and the mexicans is that other groups became americans, the hispanics want to be mexican in america.

why would we do that when we have 10% unemployment? why not let the citizens work and make the rest come here legally and become citizens. why should we give our jobs to non citizens?