sv3n

this would help you out ......... http://store.stewsmithptclub.com/coguhereswsw.html ...and you're in violation of your face!

So in your ideal system, rationing of HC services is disallowed. Can you find a SHC system that does not perform ratiioning? As you already know, the best HC system in the world, the French system, relies on rationing. I submit that you will not be able to find a SHC system with no rationing. Certainly, these systems don't want to ration HC, but are required to do so in order prevent total failure of their HC system due to runaway costs EVERY SHC system that I have looked at has, in the recent past, been on the verge of complete failure, requiring emergency funding measures and/or reform, including rationing Given the above, what might your proposed US HC system do at the front end to ensure that rationing can never take place? It would require a complete budget overhaul, most importantly a priority list in our budget.........I'm not sure who was in charge of that list before, but i don't believe that war is our number 1 priority in this country. It should be our citizens and their health. That would give us a lot of extra revenue to play with.......imagine a world where we don't spend up to 51% of our budget on military spending and reduce it to 20% (if I recall correctly china was in second place with 12%, so we'd still be numbero uno). That would give us an extra 31% of our budget. Step 1: stop letting government officials who know nothing about accounting hand out money. Let accountants do it..........there wouldn't be any excess money spent then. "do you have a receipt for that?" Get some of the top accountants out there to deal with the money and have them run like a corporation. Step 2: put out a business plan for our country what our goals are and so on and so forth, of course the goals should be decided by its citizens. that should help keep us on task rather than arguing about who got a bj or who got stains on their dress. Those things are all distractions. Step 3: hold officials responsible for their actions....if officials lie to get what they want, then they go to prison. no bs pardons, just "go have fun with bubba". ...and you're in violation of your face!

You know it might be nice to get the kids something a little lighter, more compact, and easier to carry than a shotgun......like an MP5 or an Uzi. It's gotta be hard carrying all you books and stuff and then lugging that shotgun around. Actually you know what would be perfect, a Glock 18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYHfHQgihM&mode=related&search=. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Why not make fines a combination of a fixed rate and a percentage of a person's income or wealth. Time - prison time - is a great equalizer, but when it comes to fines, they don't really impact the wealthy like they do the average person. Good point..........a $200 speeding ticket doesn't affect me like the guy that makes $200 every hour. ...and you're in violation of your face!

I understand where you're coming from.....but this isn't running a red light either. Maybe a large amount of community service at a humane society with his fines also going to the humane society. Or being the tackling dummy for police and military attack dogs with no option for padding or clothing for several months. And despite what you may think.........while it's sad, the jail time will give him street credit. Here's the most recent article: Vick Files Plea Admitting to Dogfighting Friday, August 24, 2007 1:34 PM EDT The Associated Press By LARRY O'DELL Associated Press Writer RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Michael Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and helping kill pit bulls. He denied ever betting on the fights, only bankrolling them. The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty. The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips. "Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said. According to the statement, Vick also was involved in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in test sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging. "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement says. In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the sentencing guidelines. U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who will accept Vick's plea, has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. Vick will not be sentenced for several months. ...and you're in violation of your face!

From what a friend of mine told me who is into that whole scene, a lot of the leaders in the local street gangs are telling their younger members to stay out of trouble so they're able to go into the military and are able to come back and be their trained street soldiers. ...and you're in violation of your face!

don't forget - it's FREE too

The same people who decide who gets what under a socialized system of medicine. Actually, I disagee that education can remove a lot of things. People know that no exercise, high fat, high alcohol, diets with tobacco to boot will kill you. Yet, we've got lifestyle-related diseases responsible for the majority of hospital admissions in the US. People know. They just don't care. Why should they worry about it? THey're covered. Education doesn't seem to be doing well at all. People know the risks they are taking and take them anyway. In a system where others pay for a person's risky behavior, what do you think the government's stance will be? Actually, you have accounted for the fact that high-fat food tastes good. Nicotine has soothing effects. There are individual benefits to them. But you've also hit on something else that socialism will do. Ban tobacco. And trans fat. And alcohol. Etc. It won't work, but they'll ban it. If everybody is covered for everything, as I've been suggesting, then there's no people deciding who's special enough to get treatment. It's funny that some people just can't grasp the fact that as a species, society, country.....whatever you consider yourself part of.........we should be progressing and worrying how we can make life better for everybody. While you're on the complete other end of the spectrum preaching individual greed. While I'm not a religious or sociology expert, this seems to be the big difference between some cultures....................some concentrate on themselves and others concentrate on the collective. As far as banning things.......it's already in place. Look at drugs........nicotine is a drug and so is alcohol.....they're also both addictive. Nicotine is more addictive than cocaine. If you were to look at death rates, I'm sure you'd find that food related deaths from things like high cholesterol and heart-attacks outway deaths from marijuana or even cigarettes. You don't see our non-socialized system banning any of those. Yet the drugs are banned on a pre-tense of being a public threat. I'm by no means advocating the use of drugs, but some people like the taste of marijuana and some people like the sensation of being high....to some they have benefits just like cigarettes and fatty food...........but your argument that a socialized system will ban things because they're "bad for you" is like the pot calling the kettle black. Actually it's not even that...........I have not seen any proof that a socialized system will ban those things, but we have that our government will. As far as the people not caring.....I don't think that's true. I bet you'd find the number one answer people give you is that they're too busy. Vacation time is way low in the US.....the american people want to work as much as possible............that's the general misconception. There was that debate where some lady commented to bush about the fact that she needed 3 jobs just to survive............his response "fantastic, three jobs, how uniquely american". So people get a couple of hours off, they don't think about working out...........your average person thinks about relaxing. Give people more vacation days to relax and people will feel less stressed and get off their couches.....rather than be hypnotized by the idiot box for a couple of hours. Oh......world vacation days: Italy 42 days France 37 days Germany 35 days Brazil 34 days United Kingdom 28 days Canada 26 days Korea 25 days Japan 25 days U.S. 13 days ...and you're in violation of your face!

so the punishment should be based on the wealth of the person committing it? He's not just getting paid for sports, he's also gettting paid to represent the team and taking on the responsibility of being a public figure and a role model for kids. He betrayed the public and those kids.......and to send the correct message should be made to help fix the problem. As sick as it is, jail or prison will just get him street credit..............now you take away large chunks of money and people start thinking I better not do that otherwise I'll be poor....it's not worth losing everything that I own because I want to run a dog fighting ring. ...and you're in violation of your face!

I'm not sure what goes on behind closed doors, but there's a lot of documentaries on it. Just search youtube for Illuminati, Freemasons, etc. You'll find a bunch of stuff, but as with everything......you gotta filter through the crap. Just a few that came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89SB59DT34&mode=related&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avVyf1OMjQ&mode=related&search= [url] ...and you're in violation of your face!

I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. Animals and children being innocents..........as pets animals just like children depend on you for their care, you are their guardian, they don't know any better. Respect for life.....I would put neither my child or any animal in danger on purpose.....especially something as sick as for my amusement. Are you gonna let your kid run through traffic just cause you think it's funny? Now would you do the same with your dog? The difference between my child and my dog....my child is my life and my dog is my best friend....not literally but I'm sure you get what I mean. I care for them both, and while my dog is like a kid, my child take precedent. What exactly would constitute a "higher" animal to you? ...and you're in violation of your face!

But who decides what was avoidable and what was not? See.....that's a slippery slope. Cause while it's not the child's fault it is the parents' fault and they'll be the ones held accountable, not the child. I don't disagree with you that there are a lot of things that can be removed through prevention and education. Or take it one step further remove all the unnecessary bad things. But there's two sides to that too............... one side - get rid of all the things bad like cigarettes. There's absolutely no point to them....they serve no purpose whatsoever. But then there's the other side where does it stop.......high fat foods, alcohol, etc. There's no purpose to high fat foods.....oh it tastes good.....but there's hardly any nutritional value and they cause more diseases than that taiwanese hooker over there. Same with alcohol......I like a drink. But it causes diseases, is addictive, and is a drug. ...and you're in violation of your face!

What is a dog licensed as? A pet, right? In this country they are pets not inanimate objects that you can do with as you please. And if you don't think their life has the same value...what would happen if you were to harm a police dog? Would you get a slap on the wrist with the mindset of "oh it's just a dog"? While you may not agree with it, I believe you should respect and value all life. But at the same time, if you take note of the rest of the planet, life feeds on life......wether it's plants or animals. Eating meat is not disrespectful to that as it's nature's course. I already said, I don't condone what happens in the meat industry......I think it's horrific. But I can only control my actions and educate my children to have the same respect. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Exactly, unless you're around that you just don't know.............if you've had health insurance all of your life and are well-off it seems impossible that it's something that some people can't afford....so they must just be lazy and unwilling to help themselves. ...and you're in violation of your face!

So, I guess another issue is - should society bear the burden of taking care of those who don't take care of themselves? The 40 year old with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and congestive heart failure from smoking and being obese? Should we just say, "We'll take care of you?" I think not. For society to be at its best, society needs to get rid of the drags, doesn't it? Like a modern day natural selection? That's a slippery slope. Where does it end..........well your child has down's syndrom and you were warned not to have children after the age of 40 because of the high risk of that, so we're not going to cover any of your child's care? Or....you knew that blah blah blah thousand people a year get injured in car accidents and chose to drive, therefore it's not covered. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Petition against Vick: http://www.petitiononline.com/STOPVICK/petition.html Nearly three dozen dogs, how ridiculous. I believe it shows a complete disregard for life. By taking in an animal as a pet you are thereby accepting the responsibility for their care and safety just like when you have children. The argument that we eat animals has absolutely nothing to do with this as those animals are raised for food and not to be pets. I am by no means advocating the practices used in today's meat industry, but these were pets...not animals raised to be food. He should spend the max sentence in prison and be fined millions of dollars to be divided among the different humane societies across the country. That's the only way there can be any real justice in this. I'm sorry, but I am of the firm belief that children and animals are innocents and therefore are untouchable. You should value all life, not just what's convenient. We may need some animals for food, as this is just a fact of life.....but there is no excuse for causing any living being to suffer for your own enjoyment. ...and you're in violation of your face!

DFWAJG, Thank you. Good idea. Avoiding illness is a pretty good way to keep HC costs down. I can picture a real problem with cv disease 40-50 years from now (Like there's not already one). I never see kids out riding around on bikes or getting exercise anymore. When we were kids, the neighborhood was full of activity. We'd take of on bikes in the morning and stay active doin something all day, thendo it again after dinner. I wonder if kids just sit around playing vid games nowadays. anyway, thanks for the suggestions! I think it's a great point, we spend way to much time coming up with cures rather than fixing the cause. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Personally, 18,000 people a year dying because they were turned away and couldn't afford insurance..........that's a crisis. With any system there will be horror stories.......but the fact that...... and..... and the fact that everyone is covered, including a foreigner on a student visa, that's pretty amazing. Then I look at my last doctor's visit.........back pain....my first Clear and Pull jump, got a nice wind draft right as I flared on the landing......got a 10 to 20 ft ride up and then got to PLF into a bean field, you know the nice raised rows of dirt....yeah they don't make a great rolling surface. Anyways, get there.....wait 25 minutes in the waiting room, nurse takes me in the room and asks me what's up and leaves, 10 minutes later the doctor comes in and talks with me about what hurts and has me move around a little bit...."ok, let's get some x-rays" and he leaves........15 minutes later the x-ray tech comes and grabs me to get x-rays, they only take a couple of minutes and I get escorted back to the room.....20 minutes later the doctor walks back in......you're all good, stretch...ice...jump if you like. The bill: Doctor's Visit - $119 and 2 X-rays - $158 No patches and no medication........just a talk with the doctor and 2 x-rays. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Me and sv3n went over all that stuff last week didn't we? Maybe you didn't see the posts. I guess it doesn't really matter. I don't give a shit how they ranked us anyway, they're commies, most of us are not. one thing's for sure though, anyone who wants SHC in their country will not like the way you or I or Glenn Beck think about what is important. I have been bouncing in and out of this thread and yes, I did see your evaluation of how the ratings were done. (Nicely done by the way) It was just interesting to here it come from someplace else. You are also right about, the the UN or the WHO likes it, I want nothing to do with it

Are people denied care? Go to your local emergency room and you'll get your answer. People using the ER for non-emergent care and not paying (which the hospital then passes on to everyone else) is a large part of the problem, IMO. Does healthcare need some sort of overhaul? Yes, in my opinion. Refusing to treat non-emergent people and sending them to a local doctor or clinic would go a long way towards reducing overall costs and easing the burden on the healthcare system. I believe he's referring to the fact that people with serious illnesses get turned away for not having insurance.....like cancer and such. ...and you're in violation of your face!

If there might be the worst reason to create the world health organization, this must be the one you just mentioned :D Well, if you decide to ignore everything said about it, and prefer just to repeat the same meaningless quote again ang again - it's up to you. There would be nice to have an ignore list. A World Health Organization looking at the healthcare that people get around the world.....that's preposterous. As 1969912 said "Removing that "fairness" test moves Fr to 6th and US to 15th or so".........so it all depends on how much you value "fairness". Yes, it would be nice to have an ignore list.......ignorance is bliss. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Whaddaya mean there will be no insurance? Someone has to dole out and manage the money. It may be the government, but it still needs to be paid for. Even after that there will be insurance. What % of french citizens do you think go out and buy their own supplemental insurance because THE WORLD'S BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM doesn't pay enough to cover the bills? Done guessing? It's about 85%. They buy it with $ out of their own pockets. Want that to be "free" too, well then tax their ass even more than you already do. You really need to do a little research on this crap. Seeing the #1 ranking without doing any further research won't cut it. If you really want the truth you need to talk to some people in France. http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/bb2France.php I think it's fair to say that it all depends on how you run things...as I've said, over and over again, you start with your base model and go from there. No system out there is perfect, but since we're one of the richest countries out there I think we definitely have a great shot at making it happen. As for trusting the current administration or the leaders in charge to make it happen the right way...........if they're not doing their job then we need to find someone that will. ...and you're in violation of your face!

That's right we did..........someone was a little bored last night. Me and sv3n went over all that stuff last week didn't we? Maybe you didn't see the posts. I guess it doesn't really matter. I don't give a shit how they ranked us anyway, they're commies, most of us are not. one thing's for sure though, anyone who wants SHC in their country will not like the way you or I or Glenn Beck think about what is important. ...and you're in violation of your face!

ditto............that's pretty f'd up. ...and you're in violation of your face!

I'm glad you feel that way, but what did you find out? Very simplified, the rating put quantity ahead of quality and placed universal or "free", (so to speak) access as its 1 priority. Basicly, the closer to socialistic operation the higher the ranking WHO wouldn't do something like that - only if they were spontaneously combusting ...and you're in violation of your face!