sv3n

here's the irregularities you say don't exist..... · Key officials anticipated before Election Day, that there would be an increase in levels of voter turnout based upon new voter registration figures, but did not ensure that the precincts in all communities received adequate resources to meet their needs; · At least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint was set up on Election Day resulting in complaints that were investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Attorney General; · Non-felons were removed from voter registration rolls based upon unreliable information collected in connection with sweeping, state sponsored felony purge policies; · Many African Americans did not cast ballots because they were assigned to polling sites that did not have adequate resources to confirm voting eligibility status; · College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis to persons and agencies responsible for transmitting the applications to the proper officials, but in many instances these applications were not processed in a timely or proper manner under the National Voter Registration Act (“motor-voter law”); · Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced “overvotes” and “undervotes;” · Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice; · Old and defective election equipment was found in poor precincts; · Many Haitian Americans and Puerto Rican voters were not provided language assistance when required and requested; · Persons with disabilities faced accessibility difficulties at certain polling sites; · Too few poll workers were adequately trained and too few funds were committed to voter education activities http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/florida.htm I would call that proof that there were some irregularities. You must be a big fan of people being denied their right to vote because of all the smiley faces. Personally, I don't think it's funny. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Yeah, a voice of reason.

Right on...there is no way to know for certain what people would have voted. But you can take the following things in to account and do the math..... - if 90% of african americans, 62% of hispanics, 55% of asians, and 55% of the other group voted democratic in the 2000 election (42% of whites also voted democratic) (source CNN: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html) - 94,000 voters were removed on the basis that they were felons, but only 1 out of 30 was an actual felon, that means that somewhere around 90,866 rightful voters were turned away, and 53% of those were minorities. (source: http://www.wheresthepaper.org/CEPN_Centralized_Voter_Reg_1.pdf) - bush "won" florida by 537 votes (http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm) report on the nonexisting inaccuracies...http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/florida.htm more testimony fun....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-YXvxYbck here's why Gore asked for recounts in four specific counties.... "....Winchester and her equals in Hillsborough, Broward, and Miami-Dade Counties came under some heavy criticism for the 170,000 total undervotes in their four counties." (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/t/tapper-dirty.html) that's a lot of missing votes. Gore lost! Get over it Wait?!?! I thought no irregularities were found? Gotta love it........you get proof and it's just well, uh, get over it, yeah...that's in the past let's not worry about that. Reality check, if it happened once it can happen again......regardless of who does it, repub or dem. You should be upset, not complacent. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Right on...there is no way to know for certain what people would have voted. But you can take the following things in to account and do the math..... - if 90% of african americans, 62% of hispanics, 55% of asians, and 55% of the other group voted democratic in the 2000 election (42% of whites also voted democratic) (source CNN: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html) - 94,000 voters were removed on the basis that they were felons, but only 1 out of 30 was an actual felon, that means that somewhere around 90,866 rightful voters were turned away, and 53% of those were minorities. (source: http://www.wheresthepaper.org/CEPN_Centralized_Voter_Reg_1.pdf) - bush "won" florida by 537 votes (http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm) report on the nonexisting inaccuracies...http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/florida.htm more testimony fun....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky-YXvxYbck here's why Gore asked for recounts in four specific counties.... "....Winchester and her equals in Hillsborough, Broward, and Miami-Dade Counties came under some heavy criticism for the 170,000 total undervotes in their four counties." (http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/t/tapper-dirty.html) that's a lot of missing votes. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Watch that whole video and see where you're at then. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Well...............we can argue the standards and correctness of wikipedia if you like and of course since I posted the link to that it absolutely the only source that I trust. The nice thing about internet sources that aren't owned by huge corporations which are run by buddies of the person they're discussing. A good example would be AT&T cutting out Pearl Jam's lyrics about President Bush during a webcast performance because they were anti-bush.....if you don't think that happens with news, you're blind. Look at the war for instance, the mainstream media helped get everybody behind it, without ever going and asking good questions to see if this is really needed or not and what the reasons behind it are. And now, 4,000 american lives later and 5 years.......we still haven't found those weapons of mass destruction nor found their Al Queda training camps, you know because the administration implied a link between Iraq and 9/11. To quote Beck....."don't believe everything that you breathe". The nice thing about wikipedia is that it's user written and then people can contest the validity and get it changed....try doing that with the media, you'll get a retraction on page 842 or in the credits of the broadcast. As far as the recount.........."By the morning of Wednesday, November 8 Bush's margin in Florida had dwindled to about 500 votes. The margin was small enough to trigger a mandatory recount in the state. In addition, Gore asked for hand recounts in four counties (Broward, Miami Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia), .This set into motion a series of recounts (portions by machine, and portions by hand), questions about portions of the Florida vote, and finally lawsuits." And then there's the person who certified the count....."The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign" But it fails to mention that she had been named as Bush's Florida campaign co-chair the year before. Isn't that nice.......plus her office was directly responsible for removing more than enough votes to win the election for gore........"In addition, by Harris' decree, ChoicePoint — a private firm — was hired prior to the election to identify and remove thousands of names from the state voters list on the condition that these people were convicted felons. Many of these would-be voters were turned away at the polls or even prior to reaching the polling places. It would later be discovered that approximately 97% of the people removed from the list — and thus denied the right to vote in the election — were not felons at all. The majority of these voters were African-American, and as African-Americans predominantly vote Democratic, the situation suggested foul play.[13] In any case, the thousands of votes affected by Choicepoint's error were far in excess of the number of votes (537) by which George W. Bush won the state. Whether or not there was deliberate action to prevent likely Gore supporters from voting is subject to intense debate, as is Harris' role in the process." Due to the liability and ownership major news corporations never really covered this.......wait they did, in europe. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Sorry, a lot are quick replies.....there's a life out there besides posting and sometimes I am busy with it. I will, honestly, try to be a little more clear. I'm sorry if I can't understand your poor writing and knowledge of the subject. You seem capable of little more than posting the vote count over and over. You wrote that in context of a discussion of the Electoral College. I'm not going to guess why you thought that - I don't understand many of your thoughts in this thread. ...and you're in violation of your face!

And I feel the exact opposite. OK, you still have not responded to the facts about what the US SC actually did regarding the Florida election. Are you going to? At approximately 7:50 pm EST on election night, the television news networks declared that Gore had carried Florida's 25 electoral votes. They based this prediction on faulty[citation needed] exit polls. However, in the actual vote tally Bush took a wide early lead in Florida, and by 10 pm the networks had retracted their earlier prediction of a Gore victory and placed Florida back into the "undecided" column. At approximately 2:30 am, with some 85% of the votes counted in Florida and Bush leading Gore by over 100,000 votes, the television networks declared that Bush had carried Florida, and had been elected President. However, most of the remaining votes to be counted in Florida were located in three heavily Democratic counties - Broward, Miami-Dade, and Palm Beach - and as their votes were reported Gore began to rapidly gain on Bush. By 4:30 am Gore had narrowed Bush's margin to less than 2,000 votes, and the television networks all retracted their predictions that Bush had won Florida and the Presidency. Gore, who had publicly conceded the election[1], now withdrew his concession and announced that he would wait for a recount in Florida before making his next move. By the morning of Wednesday, November 8 Bush's margin in Florida had dwindled to about 500 votes. The margin was small enough to trigger a mandatory recount in the state. In addition, Gore asked for hand recounts in four counties (Broward, Miami Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia), as provided for under Florida state law. This set into motion a series of recounts (portions by machine, and portions by hand), questions about portions of the Florida vote, and finally lawsuits. These ultimately ended in a December 12 5-4 United States Supreme Court decision which ended the Florida recounts and allowed Florida to certify its vote. The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to allegations that Harris and Bush had somehow manipulated the election to favor the governor's brother.[5][6] Bush's margin of victory in Florida was officially placed at 537 votes (out of more than 5.8 million cast), making it the closest presidential election in the history of the state. The nine members of the Supreme Court voted along partisan lines in the split decision with the two swing voters[7] (Justices O'Connor and Kennedy) siding with the three conservatives (Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justices Scalia, and Thomas) outvoting the Court's four liberals (Justices Ginsburg, Souter, Stevens, and Breyer). Due to all of these factors, the 2000 presidential campaign has become one of the most controversial, and disputed, elections in American history. directly from wikipedia......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000 ...and you're in violation of your face!

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/dec2000/elec-d14.shtml And I feel the exact opposite. OK, you still have not responded to the facts about what the US SC actually did regarding the Florida election. Are you going to? ...and you're in violation of your face!

And I feel the exact opposite. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Tell ya what....I'll rochambeau ya for who's perspective is right. We can argue this up and down til we're both blue in the face. Either you're republican or not............either you're pro-electoral college or not. It's pointless. There's so many ways to argue this and it'll just get responded with propaganda from the other end of the spectrum. ps - I go first, spent a lot of time playing soccer as a kid. ...and you're in violation of your face!

What are you smokin? I never said the supreme court passed the electoral college. Read before you respond. The supreme court stopped the recount and thereby elected Mr Bush president. I'm getting sick of all this bickering on here..... here's my point. You can call me an idealist, whatever....without a little idealism this country wouldn't exist. The people vote for who they want elected. If the totalled votes say the people want a certain person as their president, how could you support a system that keeps that from happening and why would you support such a system? It doesn't make any sense......it's the most unamerican thing that I can think of. Every person's vote should count equally and should not be skewed by a system that allows mistakes. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Actually, by florida law a recount needs to be done by hand...so they started to recount. When the numbers were starting to become in Gore's favor as more and more democratic votes were re-discovered the republican party started throwing a fit and friends and family members got called. There was a special late night supreme court session held.......I wonder who you have to know to get one of those..........and they stopped the recount and declared Bush had won. They believed in their decision so much......check this out...........they actually said that this decision was a one time thing and could not be used as a precedent in future elections. ...and you're in violation of your face!

"It's cause we're republican"..........that's original. No doubt - amazing how when the Dems lose it's 'vote fraud', but if the Dems *win* it's an honest election. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Once again, it's not funny. The majority of this country wanted Mr. Al Gore as president, the results still show that....that's not even bringing in the stuff that happened in florida. How could it be false, the numbers don't lie....or do they ...and you're in violation of your face!

Oh, did they? You need to look at the results again. It's not funny, it's sad. Regardless of if you're republican, democratic, or independent, I'm sure that everyone can agree the people should get the president that actually won. I still don't get how people aren't upset by it........it sets and aweful precedent. The 2000 election results: Gore: 50,999,897 Bush: 50,456,002 Sorry, but under the rules and laws we have the correct man did win. Sorry to burst your bubble. Oh, and the system worked exactly as designed and will continue to work for as far as either of us can see. Obviously, this got passed by the Supreme Court.........still curious why they stopped the recount. One would assume that they would want accurate results. Personally, I believe that we need a major election overhaul. Like I said, when the people don't get the president they wanted.....that's sad. ...and you're in violation of your face!

It's as simple as this........the people vote and they get the president that the people want. It doesn't need to be any more complicated or involved than that. If the current system isn't doing that, then it needs to be changed. Two elections with "false" outcomes is two too many. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Oh, did they? You need to look at the results again. It's not funny, it's sad. Regardless of if you're republican, democratic, or independent, I'm sure that everyone can agree the people should get the president that actually won. I still don't get how people aren't upset by it........it sets and aweful precedent. The 2000 election results: Gore: 50,999,897 Bush: 50,456,002 ...and you're in violation of your face!

The 2000 election results: Gore: 50,999,897 Bush: 50,456,002 Who did the people want? That shows that the electoral college does not work and does not respect or convey the will of the people. The majority of the country wanted a president that did not win because of the electoral college. That proves exactly what I said. The work thing is understandable. I recommend watching it though, it's part of a documentary by Greg Palast. He does work for PBS and several other reputable outlets. Here's an article you might also find interesting: http://www.gregpalast.com/silence-of-the-media-lambs-the-election-story-never-told/ ...and you're in violation of your face!

I watched this a while ago..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylhR8i8D4tQ&mode=related&search=..while it's a bit lengthy it's got some shocking stuff on voting. The reason I put the link is is because it directly deals with the issue of african-american voting and taking those rights away. The 2000 election results: Gore: 50,999,897 Bush: 50,456,002 (you can verify them here: http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm) Gore won the poplular vote, the people didn't get the president they wanted......that pretty much proves that the electoral college doesn't work. ...and you're in violation of your face!

No, I'm not whining regarding the Gore vs. Bush election. While that election is one of the two where the electoral college has caused a "false outcome" where the popular vote was won by the person chosen loser by the electoral college votes...the other being Benjamin Harrison and Grover Cleveland in 1888. And there's also the 1876 election of Rutherford B. Hayes vs Samuel J. Tilden which showed how easily the electoral college can be manipulated....which also seems strangely familiar to the Gore vs Bush election oddly. And yes regardless of the outcome, I would like to see the people get the president that they wanted. It would make no point making any change retro-active....."Oh by the way Mr. Gore you've been president for the last 2 terms...congratulations".........and I wouldn't expect it to happen. No sense crying over spilled milk. Put we should learn from our mistakes and progress. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Agreed with everything, except the need for it today. If it's bringing about false outcomes, as it has done twice, in elections that would mean that it's time to change it to something more accurate. Logistics issues were not very high on the justification list. State's rights were. The electoral college was based on the same foundation as a balance of the purpose of the Senate and the House. To provide representation to the States in a measure that counterbalances the direct voting power of highly populated states. Thus the voting weight of both equal state representation (like the Senate) and proportionate population (like the House) were both represented with the way Electors were allocated. A lot more thought than just logistics went into this. The question is whether that is important today also. I'd say it definitely is. ...and you're in violation of your face!

You're right, you have the right to bear arms. But it says nothing about being taxed or having those rights stripped away from you. So the right to have them is there, depending on if the goverment considers you fit to have them. But the taxation, that is subject to "mob approval"....also known as the will of the people. In a democracy, which is what we advertise our government to be, everyone has a right to vote and everyone has a right to have their vote count. Promoting or coming up with ways to bypass that is un-american. A free country in which you are free to vote and free to have that vote count, not in a country where someone else is free to decide whether they think your vote is ok or not. ...and you're in violation of your face!

Not quite, I mispoke a little bit.....let me rephrase, it wasn't the only reason nor the main reason. But imagine a presidential election back in the days when everything was delivered via pony express.....then imagine get together every vote from every state and getting the results. It would take months. So here's where the electoral college helped as well.....you don't have to worry about getting everybody's vote in, you just tally up the electoral votes. That's just plain incorrect. But you still get a C+ because the School Board can't afford to have you repeat a year. Further, we don't want to hurt your feelings. ...and you're in violation of your face!

like Alzheimer's..... A: "I can't believe I'm going to jump out of an airplane" B: "This will be the 100th time you've done this" A: "Really?, what do I do?" B: "Time for your 99th refresher class" ...and you're in violation of your face!