fasted3

I agree entirely. >>>No, you don't. Jarno cited 3 factors, one of which you are about to discount, entirely. In this particular incident, it seems that some think that the high speed was the primary cause when in fact, it was not. A slower speed would have almost assuredly ended with the same result. >>>How do you know this? You speak with such assurance. Higher airspeed does not always result in a tailstrike (rarely, in fact). >>>Maybe the fact that high speed exits are rarely done plays into this. Add the fact that when they are done, they are done with extreme care. Fully opening a wing on exit at any speed almost assures a very near miss or tail strike on a side exit aircraft. Fully opening is a mistake. At higher airspeeds and with bigger wings, it MAY just get ya. But what do I know?

The argument is whether additional airspeed causes increased risk of hitting the tail. I'm of the opinion that improper exit technique was the primary cause of this incident. Additional factors were a large wingsuit and a higher than normal airspeed. The same mistake in technique done in a smaller suit, or at a lower speed, may have allowed the jumper to pass below the tail rather than hitting it. Yes, this is an opinion, and speculation. By the way, I don't distract the pilot. I do talk to them on the ground, and only when necessary on the plane. I can see the airspeed indicator from where I sit, and have successfully looked at it without distracting either the pilot or myself. I am not looking to assign blame in this incident. The responsibility to exit safely rests with the jumper, and like all of us, he did it at his own risk. Airspeed did not cause this incident. I do think that it is nevertheless a factor in it. I posted a video showing a bad exit. It did not result in an accident, but I'm pretty damn sure it would have, had the plane been flying faster. What if it was going 140 kts? Arguing that it wouldn't make any difference just doesn't make sense. My argument is that airspeed does make a difference. But what do I know?

I had not considered an exit with hands behind me. Interesting. My concern would be freaking out for some reason and opening up too soon. As long as you can keep it closed, it should work. But what do I know?

OK Spot, I tried it. Seems like the faster I go, the more lift I get. Go figure. But what do I know?

Wrong. technique is the primary cause. But what do I know?

What, now you don't want to argue? Well, since you are stuck with the side that exit speed doesn't matter, I don't blame you. Popping out and climbing in a wingsuit is all too possible, and at high speed we can gain altitude. Hello. But what do I know?

Quote Read the paper Jan Meyer linked to in the Incidents forum. It points out pretty clearly that while airspeed plays a role in the likelihood of a tail strike, it's a relatively minor role. Seems to me someone else thought that too, but there is a difference between instinct and data. Hopefully you'll accept her opinion. >>>Nope. You know that sufficient airspeed is enough to pop up above the plane, as seen in tailgate exits. Why do you persist in denying that the same thing can happen from a side exit, as in an Otter, when the air speed is increased? If you won't pop up at 80 kts. but will at 100, then it just makes sense to me that you are at a higer risk if you open your wings too soon at the higher airspeed. Same thing with a beginner suit vs an advanced wing. You may not get the lift required to wipe out in an Intro at a given speed, but could easily pop up in a big wing. It does require an extra jolt of speed to attain lift in a wingsuit. This can easily be imparted by the airplane. In any case, all I have done is advise caution, no matter the speed or wingsuit used. Glad you survived that exit too. /reply] I know you are. When all is said and done, we both want everyone to go home safe at the end of the day. But what do I know?

All I see is wings coming open far too soon. Dumb. But what do I know?

540 1 Spinning line twists with big canopy. Body position on deployment. Wingsuit. But what do I know?

Good post Jarno, Thanks! That video was 200 jumps ago, and I think every one since then has been with plenty of clearance from the tail. Seeing what I had done was enough to illustrate a growing complacency, and cause a permanent change in my technique. PS, does anybody think the video would look the same had this been a no cut exit? Airspeed and wing size are factors that can make the difference between a close call and impact. IMO. It is interesting to hear different methods of keeping the wings shut. Probably any one that works is fine. Most important is holding it long enough. When I see the tail go by, I know it's time to open up. Not before. But what do I know?

No, this near miss didn't get much discussion. Too bad, as this can be a major hazard to wingsuit flying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VeUee-qBVM In this video, I made a careless exit. (It is in the first 5 seconds,) and resulted in my passing fairly close to the tail. I remember the jump, and clearly seeing a few feet of clearance, but after seeing the video, I realized that I needed to change my technique. This was a normal speed exit. Had I done this on a high speed exit, it could easily have done me in. But what do I know?

Maybe this thread has something to do with it. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3616314#3616314 But what do I know?

I don't. Great timing on your bad advice. Good post, Lurch. +1 But what do I know?

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Maybe some people give a shit what you think. I know I don't. But what do I know?

What about the skydivers that jumped out of the first airplane they ever rode in? How cool is that?

I like the way you make a vote rather than a pronouncement about this. I feel the same about my vote, which, knowing me, would probably have gone the other way. If I thought I could land it wihout getting broken, I'd stick with it. Of course I could be wrong... that's what keeps this interesting. Let's simplify into 4 possible outcomes: No cutaway, good result No cutaway, bad result Cutaway... well you get the point. I submit that every possible outcome could generate a lot of shouting on here about who was right, who wrong, and who should take up bowling. The bottom line is that any decision AT THAT TIME that results in a good result can not be faulted. It can not be ruled out, or proven, that a better result may be possible, but the same applies to the opposite. In other words. had this guy cut away, and for whatever reason gotten hurt, I can just hear the clicking of the keys: what an idiot for cutting away! Anyway, this has generated some good discussion. Thinking about problems ahead of time leads to better decisions when they need to be made in split seconds.

The point man does not fly off of anybody else. As the formation is built off of him, it makes sense to measure off of him. To me anyway. I don't care. Any number of guys flying together looks good to me. Good luck with the record! But what do I know?

Top 10 Reasons to not jump with an Ipod: 10. Might not hear last minute instructions in the plane. 9. Might not hear someone under canopy. 8. Might cause loss of awareness during freefall. 7. Entanglement. 6. Can't hear it that well anyway. 5. What, skydiving isn't exciting enough for you? 4. Bad song on playlist. 3. Lost/broken Ipod. 2. Bad example for newer jumpers. 1. Makes one appear stand offish. The last one is no joke, Do you want to be the person that won't talk to anybody? I'd rather be available for interaction with others when at the DZ. I don't want to miss a chance to smile and talk to the people I know, and I also enjoy joking around with the students and tandem folks on the way up. A person with buds in their ears is sending the message, "Leave me alone." Not why I skydive. But what do I know?

Thanks! This is a good idea because I didn't try hard at all to make it fit. I simply eyeballed the formation and made my crude drawing. A bit of effort could have made a better fit, I'm sure, because the fliers did such a good job. The fact that it would totally rule out any hypothetical crap formations is a plus. another point is that while I used 90 degrees for my angles, there is no reason a proper WS formation should be limited to that, and by simply altering the angles, and sizing the circles, any degree of accuracy could be attained. For Stoney: I know that a formation that used estreem distance on one side and short on the other may look a little distorted, but in fact I think the differences would balance out more and in fact would look good to the eye anyway. It all comes down to how tight you want to draw the circles. But what do I know?

Too late. My brilliant idea has surpassed your projectgrope. Sorry... But what do I know?

Stoney you got me thinking and I came up with this idea. Each flier should be within range of the one he is flying off of. Following this would produce beautiful formations. You should be able to look at it and know it is good. Here is my idea. But what do I know?

Carry a cell phone with you. But what do I know?

Dead air in a burble is one thing, but I hit one close up like you did and it felt like getting sucked down a hole. It was damn hard to get out of. Scary video - I'm glad you made it. But what do I know?

I agree that luck would be a factor, but not doing it right would be disaster that no amount of good luck would help. I've found that the better prepared I am, the luckier I am. As far as a lot of modifications, I don't think they are necessary. Some padding and chest protection, and possibly using different fabrics. A well funded effort, with state of the art gadgets, a crew of fliers to assist with training, and one guy that believes in it, and I think it could happen. Of course death is always an option. But what do I know?