EDYDO

Some time back there was a thread with a link that allowed one to reduce the resolution of photos for use on the Web. Anybody have this link? I can't seem to find it. Ed

Ed, you didn't read Hooknswoop's post then. He cites a case where they did violate a PP for flying jumpers. See post HERE I guess I will just give up. I can't seem to get my point across. In the above post the "club" was charging for tandems and more. The FAA found essentially that the "club" was just a front for a business. Once again, I hope no one reads into any of my posts that I believe a private pilot can fly for a DZ, even if they call themselves a "club". That is simply not the case. Ed

Going to FSDO and asking for a ruling is pointless. Been there, done that. It is asking for them to put their neck in a noose if they have missed something and they aren't going to do that if they are smart. What one usually gets back is the regulation numbers that you should read to form your own conclusion. I hope no one has read into any of my posts that I believe that a private pilot can fly a plane for a DZ, that is not the case. I am a glider instructor and acutely aware as to why glider operations are allowed to use private pilots, but we have enough controversy without it. Yes, the FAA is indeed autonomous, but not invincible. I can attest to that first hand. I can't find any evidence where a private pilot not charging, has been issued a violation for flying jumpers. By the same token, I see no evidence that the FAA Southern Region even has an interest in pursuing such a course. Ed

Tom, Your posts always provide a lot of good thought provoking information for me and I again thank you for your contribution to this thread. I have highlighted a part of the above in bold for clarity. The part in italics tells me you understand what it says. It should be made clear for others that this reg says essentially that a private pilot may not fly for compensation Except in the cases of b thru g. Part g is indeed glider flying and those in the glider are paying a number of expenses not shared with the tow pilot. The fact that the list excludes flying jumpers does not mean a private pilot cannot fly jumpers, only that there can be no compensation or hire. We all seem to agree that a private pilot may not fly jumpers for hire. If there is anything to prevent a private pilot from flying jumpers, not for hire, it is elsewhere. I have seen your posts about "common purpose" and that is a good point since the FAA uses it, but it isn't in the regs. There is also the part about logging flight hours, a valid point for the same reason, but I think it pretty weak and full of holes. It's not in the regs either. Honest, I am not looking for a loophole, it seems the FAA is. Ed

Tetrachloroethylene is dry cleaning fluid. Ed

I have gone back through this thread and I see a lot of confused opinions. I can understand why you might have questions. It just isn't as bad as some portray. The simple answer to your question is, No you don't need to ask to see a pilot's license. In fact, he is not required by law to show it to a passenger. See FAR 61.3 (L). FAR 105 cites things that you could possibly be held responsible for that there is absolutely no way anyone in the back of the plane could ever know. You just can't be concerned with it. Example: FAR 105.14 (1) (ii) holds the jumper responsible if the pilot fails to make proper radio contact with ATC. They are just covering their butt in every conceivable circumstance. Just keep your reserve in date, stay away from clouds and have fun. Ed

When the banning folks get started, look for skydiving to get in there somewhere. The case could be made. Ed

The space in the RV park next to mine in Raeford is looking really empty right now. I don't have the words. Ed

Steve, Thanks for the info. I'm sorry about the vendetta. We surely don't need to hurt our DZO's if we want to continue to have a place to easily skydive. Heck, no one can run a business without pi**ing someone off occasionally. I do welcome the opportunity to see the regs brought out in the forum. I wish I could see more positive info. For example, there are times a private pilot can fly jumpers and that seems to stay in the background. Ed

JE, Did you read his posts, nothing makes any sense. In one post you are his instructor skygod and in another he doesn't know you??? I don't know what I might need revenge for and I am much too busy to "lurk". I am passionate about government and it's role in skydiving. If that bothers some people then so be it. Yep, I have a commercial, but I will not hesitate to ride with a Private Pilot under the right circumstances. Heck, if I wasn't the only pilot at at the DZ many years ago, I might have almost as many jumps as you. Ed

Good information, Tom. Thanks for whatever time it took you to find and post it. I can easily see their position when a private pilot flies paying jumpers. That's really no different from putting a private pilot in the seat of an airliner and saying that it is legal because he is not being paid. Even a set fee of only $8.50 sounds commercial to me. Much of the rest of their position sounds a lot like bureaucratic bullying. They can get away with it only if we let them. It is a pretty big stretch for them to conclude that every private pilot is trying to build hours. I live in an area with small private airports where there are pilots who sit around in the afternoon and chew the fat. A parachute jump is sometimes a part of the fun. Just, put out a notam, find a pilot/plane and go. Everyone enjoys it. In my view, that is a common purpose. In these cases, I never pay anything. I have learned from experience that Federal employees have almost complete immunity from personal responsibility if they are following the regulations. If however, they start adding or changing the law/regulation, they can be held personally responsible and they are quite hesitant to pursue a questionable position once they realize you know that. Ed

Hey cool! I'm from the MB area. I have quite a bit of family in Flo-town. We jump up at the DZ in Clemson. I haven't made it over to Raeford to jump yet... but there were a couple of cloudy weekends we came real close to driving over there. PM me whenever you're going to Raeford and we will make sure you get the red carpet treatment. (My parents live in MB) Ed

Justin, We could use you. Ed

I have been trying to research "common purpose" as related to this thread and am not having much luck. Can anyone steer me toward the legal basis for this concept? Is it nothing more than bench law set in Garvey V Rawlins? That case was clearly a commercial operation using the "club" as a shield. Ed

How do you explain this post? Ed http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1032307#1032307 Quote

Welcome to the thread. I believe J.E. is one of your instructors and is a friend of yours. Ed

OK, I did. It says pro rata share. Posts like yours scare people unnecessarily into staying on the ground in cases when they can make jumps that are perfectly legal. Ed

Look at the top of the post, the subject is "Private Pilot Flying Jump plane." Please give me a break with the $12.49/ $12.50 example. There is nothing to support that position. Ed

Quote if there is any exchange of "value" you are busted. Even if you are the owner/pilot of the aircraft.Quote I am skeptical about this. I cannot believe there is case history of a violation of a Private Pilot/Aircraft Owner resulting in fine or suspension, when taking up jumpers and truely sharing expenses. By the same token I have a number of jumps where another jumper/pilot and I flew each other and split the cost of a rental plane. I see nothing contrary to the regulations in this either. Ed

I use my Neptune as a visual and my Pro Track as an audible, so I can compare the two. They are nearly always within 100 feet of each other on exit and deployment. The Pro Track (I think) shows more seconds per dive and that could add up. I can't be sure which is the most accurate. Freefall time is often 4 or 5 seconds less per jump on the Neptune. It does hop and pops just fine, but I am careful to go 6 seconds so my pro track will record. I know what the pro track does with under 6 second freefalls, but I don't know what the Neptune does. The real benefit for me with the Neptune as a visual is small size and light weight. Oh yes, the batteries are lasting much longer, I must have gotten some old ones at first.

I guess you're just checking to see if we're paying attention. The concept will likely not work very well unless a diagram of the airport is used in addition to the direction. By the way, is that magnetic or true? Ed

The key point here is flying for compensation. If the passengers are paying ANYONE more than expense money, then the pilot must have a commercial license. This means that clubs selling tandems and commercial DZ's must have commercial pilots. If you want to take me up in your plane for gas money and you are a private pilot, we can go. Ed CFI

I have one of the first productions squares in my storage area. It is a Baby Para-Plane with ring and rope type reefing. I quit jumping it after about 20 jumps because I was afraid of it. The steering lines were toggles with 550 cord sewn to the back risers. Since I wouldn't jump it anymore, I wouldn't sell it to anyone else. I would gladly donate it to our future museum if they asked, but I expect they have an abundance of such equipment. Ed

Bill, I know you are a moderator for the group and I respect your views, but that "Low even for you." looks to me like a personal attack and not an attack on his position. Are the rules different here? Ed

Would you still quote him if he thought skydiving was insane? I'll whistle my tune and Dr. Hurd is free to whistle his. Ed