nacmacfeegle

""Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." President Dwight D. Eisenhower April 16, 1953" I kinda like that. Anyways to supplement to your mullings, Paul.... "COST OF THE WAR US military operations so far: $168bn * Military operations (projected): $150bn-300bn Reconstruction so far: $33bn (US $18.7bn) * Reconstruction (projected): $50bn-100bn Extra security: $40bn-80bn Sources: CBO, CSIS, World Bank * allocated for US fiscal years 2003-05 " From my regular source, the Beeb. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3689365.stm But to me the highest cost shows up in the waste of human life, and the errosion of entente cordiale between the Coalition member states, and the Arab world. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Anybody know for sure?" Red Bull are sponsoring the war. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Deuce, you provide a welcome sense of humour in an otherwise fun free forum. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

K-nail in my left femur, the result of a low turn around jump number 450. If I could join you at WFFC I'd be up for it.

Or the low opening wingsuit jumps from Slovenia! -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

The Shadows got most of the fans. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Crusades, however.... Good money in Crusading.! The Knights Templar are a good example of early corporate globalisation. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

The advice from Nightjumps looks good. Jumping for charity in the UK is very common, its how I started. Most DZs in the UK will have this taken care of and they can all be contacted here http://www.bpa.org.uk/dropzone/dzone.htm Alternatively contact your favourite charity and they will probably set you up. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Great news Lew, all's well that ends well. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"After all, I don't need a government permit to say "Nixon was a crook, Clinton is a scoundrel, Kerry is a creep and Bush is a liar". " Yeah, all you need is a dropzone.com login. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

The article also mentioned keeping the guns unloaded and the ammo separate, in a similarly secure safe type box. Edit to add> I quote from the gun safety page hyperlinked to in the fox article. "FOLLOW BASIC RULES OF GUN SAFETY. If you have a gun at home, store it properly. A properly stored gun is one that is: Unloaded Locked in a gun safe or strongbox or other secured container. (Carry the key with you or keep it in a secure place). Stored separately from ammunition (which is locked away). Out of sight and reach of children." Which, in my mind defeats the argument for keeping a firearm in the house for the purpose of self defence. "Would you be in favor of a tax deduction for the purchase of such a safe to help keep children safe?" Not at all John, I'd rather not see weapons in the home at all, therefore a tax penalty might be in order, along with enforcement of the lockups for storage as part of a license agreement between the authorities and the owners. This was actually the case here for a while, ammo and firearms had to be kept under lock and key as part of the license requirements. Failure to comply could result in the suspension of the license. This was enforced with spot insepections etc. I know this is against your views on gun registration etc, but you did ask what my opinion on this was. Culturally, here in the UK, we don't seem to have the same predeliction for firearms as our brothers and sisters across the pond. Firearm onwership was seen as a priveledge, not a constitutional right. I'm guessing this cultural difference is some sort of throwback to the pioneer spirit that I suspect still exists in the US. This spirit is actually one of the things I like about the US, its a 'can do' approach, and is reflected in good things like your space programme, and other technological advances. We have a much more 'laisser faire' attitude to crime suppression, IE we rely much more heavily on our police and the vigilance of our fellow citizens to defend us. I think we'd both agree that we shouldn't have to possess firearms to defend ourselves against attackers, but sadly society all over just isn't like that. Personally I think the risks to my family might be increased by me possessing and keeping a firearm, ready to use, say adjacent to the main door, but that is just based on my personal circumstances. Its a risk assessment every potential gun owner should undertake. Where I live (a small village with about 700 pop, tucked away in the foothills of the Grampian mountains), I just don't see that many armed agressors forcing entry into an occupied property. Our crooks tend to take the easier options of entering unattended homes, and I have insurance to mitigate that risk, its only stuff after all. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty ambivalent over gun ownership, I don't actually believe an awful lot of people here would own firearms based on a personal security risk, I reckon its more of a sporting thing, guns are cool, and firing them on a range, or out hunting is fun. Owning weapons as part of a militia type defence against either your own government, or invading redcoats is just risible in this day and age. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Do you know what you've done? That'll be the cue for another string of favourite Python quotes... "He's not the Messiah, He's a very naughty boy " -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

It would have been cheaper to invade Nigeria or Khazakhstan then. Kashagan, Tengiz, and the Karachaganak oilfields alone make Khazakhstan a very interesting prospect..... I think oil is a factor but its not even a primary reason. How on earth will Mr Bush get his hands on any foreign oil, apart from buying it legitimately?Especially now that the UN is looking into a bit of a scandal on this front. Its very easy to say its about oil, I thought that way a while back. But you have to get the oil out of the ground and into the marketplace. This can't happen without massive conspiracy on a global scale, that would make the oil for food scandal look like a simple case of shoplifting. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

From the article "Most experts recommend storing guns unloaded and in a locked case." The hypertext links point to futher recommendations to keep the ammunition separately and also locked. Doesn't this kinda go against keeping the weapon in the house for the purposes of self defence? Carry them, use them for sporting, take photos of your girlfriends holding them, I don't really care what you guys do, I'm just trying to wade through the mire of fuzzy reasoning. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"In my understanding this is only to follow his war track further to reach the real final goal: Oil." I'm not a big fan of this war, or the circumstances behind it, but not even I believe this is the sole or major reason. Cost of the war alone will be around 750 billion dollars. You can buy an awful lot of oil for that money, and its unlikely that the international community will allow anyone to actually steal the stuff. Influence its distibution, maybe, but not steal. Mind you, I don't know what the real reasons actually are. Saying its all about oil just doesn't make any financial sense to me. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"I like to see helmets worn for takeoff." I prefer the term 'secured', this means that camera people fasten their helmets onto their chest strap or seat belt. The oft heard excuse for not wearing camera helmets on take off is that there is no room, especially on smaller planes or those with low headroom. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"All external shots of the Milenniunm Falcon are wrong.......because they add sound. " True, in space, nobody can hear you throw up. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Its stuff like this that gives gun owners who actually know what they're doing and the ones that are very safe a very bad wrap." Dave, I'm struggling to understand some of the issues here. When someone buys or is issued with a sidearm in the US, is there not some sort of formal 'basic gun safety' instruction type thing required? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Owch, It burns, it burns.... no fair, no fair, not even safe for work. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"I'm not interested in screwing the rigger over but I would like him to know what he did - so he can do something to prevent it happening in the future." Yeah, I figured that.Phree...Are you talking about Chuting star's rant and rave section? Its down or being rebuilt. http://www.chutingstar.com/rantandrave.html -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"The best thing to do is to have the rigger that discovered it talk to the rigger that assembled it." I'd agree with this. As Gus is in the UK, he has further recourse via the BPA riggers committee, chaired by Paul Applegate, or to contact Tony Butler. Me? If it were my rig, I'd be having a chat with the riggers involved and probably leave it at that. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Doesn't really matter to me what official status they give/gave him." He's a truck driver for KBR (Halliburton). KBR have lost 33 people in the Iraq/Kuwait area recently, I'm glad this guy will be home soon. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

39 Max? Slacker, whats up with 40? Best wishes to you and all the team, I'm really looking forward to pictures and video. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Mark, do you want to give some specific links on that, the first page of google didn't give any substantial reports, apart from the INA's website, which is kinda slanted against the Brits, understandably. Pajarito, "I don’t buy into the “see, I told you the US military was corrupt and evil and, therefore, the war is criminal and unjust” " It hasn't come to that yet, fortunately the debate here has been relatively civilised so far. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

Well, these photographs were taken at one of 3 major prisons in Iraq, this one holds about 4,500 prisoners. There's a link to another incident in Afghanistan further up the thread where 2 prisoners died during questioning, and I recall a previous hearing over a high ranking officer conducting mock executions for info. It was discussed on the forum at length at the time. Isolated? No, I don't think so, but I don't actually believe this is indicative of typical behaviour either. I do believe this is extremely damaging, not only to the quest for peace in Iraq, but also to extremists who will target civilians elsewhere. "I cant help but think how Saddam would have treated them for alleged infractions!" That still doesn't make it right. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson