nacmacfeegle

"Better than being British!" Aw hey, Bryan, that hurt, you know I'm really... Scottish, Texan (honourary status), British, In that order! -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"No amount of evidence will be enough." I'd like to ask our respective leaders just to show us the evidence they have, right now, the evidence upon which we started this conflict. You know, the stuff they couldn't release because it might compromise their sources. Our leaders are going to have to show it sooner or later anyways, during the inevitable formal examination and investigation of events leading up to the war, so why hold on to it? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"This article referes to biological weapons .... sarin is a chemical one :-) " Potaytoe, potahtoe. The article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997766/) was actually about using bad intel as a justification to go to war. "Powell said his presentation “was based on the best information that the Central Intelligence Agency made available to me. ... In the case of the mobile trucks and trains, there was multiple sourcing for that. Unfortunately, that multiple sourcing over time has turned out to be not accurate....... As recently as January, Vice President Dick Cheney referred to the trucks as "conclusive" proof that Iraq was producing weapons of mass destruction. But CIA Director George Tenet later testified to Congress that he had called Cheney to warn him that the evidence was in doubt” Also... "Current and former U.S. officials, including David Kay, the former chief weapons inspector in Iraq, have said that most of the evidence came from an Iraqi defector code-named “Curveball.” According to newspaper accounts, U.S. officials didn't know the defector's name until after the war, when they learned that he was a brother of one of the top aides of Ahmad Chalabi, the Iraqi exile who was an important advocate for the U.S. invasion of Iraq. "Kay has said that Curveball was a "downright swindler," and charged that the case suggested "a lack of due diligence and care" by U.S. officials" It would appear that we were duped. I just saw the irony in one article indicating the finding of what sounds like a chemical artillery shell (similar to the ones that were found shortly after the liberation began), on the same headlines as Colin Powell formally admitting that his evidence for war was at best, flawed. Thats irony in my book. I'm disappointed because Powell actually impressed me during Gulf War1, and he's been uncomfortable (whilst remaining staunchly loyal to his CinC) with the lack of any real evidence to go to war this time round. I'd echo Pajarito's relief that no one was injured in uncovering this device. Its just a shame its blown apart, and its contents cast to the 4 winds, now we'll never know the truth. Find 'something' and destroy it before anyone can do any analysis on it.....A far more plausible conspiracy and even more sinister than aliens placing them there. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4997766/ Interesting, I believe we will start seeing more of this.... Sorry Rhino, couldn't resist the story just a few links down the page. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Tasteless" is entirely subjective... You seem to have that ultra sensitive streak that zaps a morbid sense of humor, which can be very necessary to maintain sanity in the midst of madness such as the Iraq situation... But, judging by your ultra liberal eurocentric mindset, even the most liberal mindset would probably be too conservative/closedminded... So, I give up... "Anything the US does is bad." -Happy now? " Sheesh, you colonial cousins are ultra sensitive these days. How does anything Chrystel has said in this thread to date translate into a direct or even abstract criticism of the USA? Americans, you're all paranoid. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Aside from this, I have read that things like an American flag or the lunar lander are far too small to be seen by Hubble from this distance." And besides, the flag, when seen from above would look like o-------------- kinda hard to detect really. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"I saw that, but British bomber crews did not have a magic number or get "sent home". Guy Gibson's RAF Lancaster crew certainly had way more than 25 missions by May 1943, and the Lanc was a heavy." Guy Gibson's record was certainly exceptional, it is believed that he flew over 170 sorties including 2 tours on bombers, and one as a night fighter pilot. I don't want to detract from the accomplishments of the Memphis Belle, they were flying in daylight, so the risks were certainly more considerable. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

" How much benefit did Britain gain from having this guy on the front lines instead of in an R&D position?" Hehe, I clicked on the link thinking you were referring to Oswald Moseley..... Different guy altogether. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

How does the guy who drives the snow plough get to work?

"Still waiting for an answer to the question... how does a people invite another nation to topple their government?" Your not going to like it Trent, but I'll step up and answer......you do it via the UN. Anything else is normally called a coup, an invasion, or a liberation. "And also, if a poll shows the majority of Iraqis want the US out, is it okay for us to abandon the large minority who want our help?" There were 2 polls that stuck in my mind recently, the first was one held in Iraq prior to the invasion, and it demonstrated almost unanimous support for Saddam from the people of Iraq, democracy in action? The other poll was conducted by the UN security council regarding the response to a perceived global security situation in Iraq, and we all know the upshot of that one. There is a situation developing in Darfur, western Sudan, it will be interesting to see how the UN and various other states react to a growing humanitarian crisis set against the backdrop of a crippling civil war. I fear that the UN will be too slow to prevent the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, and recent outrage at unilateral action by the coalition will deter countries from 'interfering'. Meanwhile, its the little people who will suffer. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"My hope is a new gov't is put in place who will swiftly deal with the presence of Al Queda in their nation. I don't think it will be that easy though." Lets face it Chris, if we can't do it, deal swiftly with the presence of terrorists in Iraq, how can we possibly expect a brand new government to cope? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Should we be griping about the nasty overconsuming overpolluting Europeans, I wonder?" Thats a whole other thread Jeffrey, but since you raised it.... Lets have a look at CO2 emmissions, as a general indicator of propensity to consume/polute. The US, with its 280 million population produces about 5,000 million tonnes of CO2 per year. The EU with its 446 million population produces around 3,500 million tonnes of CO2 per year. source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3143798.stm#us Do the maths, and see on a per capita basis, you guys are making a bigger mess than we are. Furthermore, Europe signed up to the Kyoto accord which requires signatories to reduce CO2 emissions to 1990 levels. from the link above, "The US emits more, absolutely and per head, than any other country - although it also produces more wealth. When Kyoto was agreed, the US committed to reducing its emissions by 6%. But since then it has pulled out of the agreement and its carbon dioxide emissions have increased to 16% above 1990 levels." So you are making a bigger mess per capita, and things aren't getting any better. However its not all gas guzzling SUV's driving 1300 miles to visit granny, there is a lot of business considerations associated with producing greenhouse gases. So the picture becomes even more foggy (smoggy?) as we look at consumption per capita, not in isolation but in a context that also considers the net worth of the processes that contributed to the pollution. EG if you are making a lot of steel, you'll make a lot of CO2, but if your primary industry is say software writing, you'll contribute less CO2. Notwithstanding the above discussion, your Mr Bush will not sign up to the Kyoto accord because... A) It is based on 'bad science', there is no link between greenhouse gas emissions and global climate change. B) He has vowed not to tax fuel consumption as a means of reducing demand. Applying a tax to limit consumption at this stage of his career will cost him votes. C) Russia has not signed it, and its not fair to grant an exemption for developing countries, whilst expecting the US to reduce its pollution. D) The cost of reducing CO2 emissions to 1990 levels is prohibitive. There is therefore no economic incentive to change the way you do things. E) America does not pollute, its the rest of the world thats making a mess. F)Any or all of the above reasons. Some people here in Europe believe that one way to persuade the US to come into line with Kyoto will be to apply an import tax on the US. So watch out, this will not help your trade deficit, and could lead to further devaluation of the dollar, giving a virtual price rise of imported items, such as oil. But I digress, the reason our fuel will jump in price is because it is heavily taxed, as I stated way up the thread. Tax is levied as a percentage of the market price, for easy counting, lets assume a litre costs 1 pound, the tax levy is around 2 pounds. If the cost of the original petrol goes up by 10 pence, the tax will increase by 20 pence, giving a total rise of 30 pence. Thats why we are paying through the nose for the fluctuations in petroleum price. The fluctuations are undoubtedly linked to trouble in the middle East, but our tax structure is not. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Let's say a company comes to you for your occupational specialty and says, "I'd like you to go to work for us helping to rebuild Iraq." " Currently I work for Halliburton, I specialise in fixing worn out petrochemical stuff, and building new plants. They already pay me more than your 100k to sit in the office in Aberdeen, and I get home safe and sound to see the wee one every night, so its going to have to be a good deal. Unless the deal was outstanding, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. By outstanding, I 'm talking 3 times normal pay (tax free), full expenses, company organised everything, armed escorts for compound-worksite travel, armed security at worksite and compund, business class flights (transferable) in and out, 6 weeks on 2 weeks off rotation. None of these conditions are unusual for my line of work, problem is, we can get this sort of deal by going to places such as Nigeria, Myanmar, etc. So like I said, it would have to be outstanding. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"I do think that there is more to their hatred of us than JUST religion." I think if we could find out what the other reasons are we could go a long way to defusing some of this hatred. "I do still think that it is the main calling." I'd still disagree with you there, but I don't see much point in flogging the expired equine over minor details. I'm inclined to see it as a tactic rather than a purpose. I think we might agree that even though they are using religion as a banner/motive, we can not react in a similar manner. What I'm saying is that we can not villify all Muslims based on a few extremist rantings, or someone's interpretation of their holy scriptures. Thats a very dangerous and ugly path to tread. As my link shows there is widespread condemnation of the terrorist actions from Muslims, not only in the US, but also in many other countries. I'm going to have to leave this all now and make a break for (well defended) freedom from the office. I've got some jumping to do. Have a good weekend, blues skies, fluffy openings, and bounce free swoops to ya.

Hey Trent, usual suspect checking in.

Could a draft be used to free up professional military from US based operations. EG the regular army folks all go abroad for the conflict, but the draftees stay and do the home based stuff? Similarly would an increased use of civilian 'contractors' in say support roles (dare I say it similar to the service Halliburton already provides) also free up combat trained personnel? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

No worries Dave, I see you had a bit of a blast at San Marcos, good people, and a cool sign at the DZ. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

No, we pay through the nose for our petrol because it is so heavily taxed, as it is throughout much of Europe, although we are quite badly off compared to our other neighbours. If we had petrol prices on a par with our colonial cousins, we'd be dancing in the streets. The portion of tax that makes up the 80 odd pence per litre is around 73-75%, ie without tax (vat and petroleum duty) our fuel would be around 30p per litre, as opposed to the current 80p. Now you know why we are about to see some direct action if price and tax increases are passed on to the consumers. See here for more info and debate on petrol prices from 2000. http://www.ifs.org.uk/consume/petrol.pdf Prices will fluctuate according to the laws of supply and demand, but is unfair to blame either the USA or China for our ridiculous tax structure, and subsequent extortionate fuel prices. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"And all this does is delay the issue. Its a religious war...they have made it one, and thats all it takes. If we gave them everything they want, they will still attack us to "convert" us," I spent a fair bit of time pondering this last night, see, I do take you seriously, Ron.

Help a ferriner out, which one is which? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Imagine if Mother Theresa had her own tv show. Same basic concept except with skin-tight bathing suits, nippies, and slow motion running." I'd probably devote as much time to Theresa Watch as I currently do to Baywatch. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Iraq can attack us in 45 minutes" ---------------------------------- Haven't heard that one. " British intel, I think, which now also appears to be inaccurate. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Then you limit what you learn by your ignoring available information just cause you don't agree with it...Thats your loss." Probably, but I've seen enough sectarian shite in my time to read or listen to the likes of this guy. Much of his stuff looks like opinion rather than factual information. The book you referred to was by your own account fictional which raises real issues. There are lots of books around that do that. The other book you recommended for example, was 'Lord of the Flies' a thought provoking book, but not a text book by any means. "Lord of the Flies commands a pessimistic outlook that seems to show that man is inherently tied to society, and without it, we would likely return to savagery." It doesn't mean that every group of people who are marooned out of the influences of society will necessarily revert to savagery though. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Read Tea with Terroists ... Its a fiction book, but it provides some really interesting insite." The author (Craig Winn) doesn't hold your Mr Bush in very high regard though. Have you checked out his open letter to the president? "Enough already. Your political future isn’t worth the blood of 600 American boys. How many more fathers and sons, husbands and brothers will you allow to die? ....I began this open letter with a harsh claim. I said that you were deceiving the American people and allowing America’s best to die for your own political agenda...So that brings us to Iraq. We now know that Saddam’s regime wasn’t involved in 9/11 and that it wasn’t a clear and present danger to America. So your reasons for invading must have been personal and political, not defensive....Next, reclaim the American oil assets that were stolen by Islamic warlords in the sixties and seventies. The billion dollars a day that we transfer to Islamic dictators is being used to tyrannize their people and terrorize ours. By enriching these evil regimes we are funding our own funeral." Full text here http://www.prophetofdoom.net/openletter.doc There's a lot of ranting about the evils of Islam in there, based on what he says in his letter, I doubt I will be opening any of his books. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

"Anyone have any recomendations to some real Spanish Flamenco quitar out there, bands, songs ect." Try and check out music by Joaquin Rodrigo, the composer (not renowned as a performer) of the fairly famous Guitar Concertos aka the Concierto de Aranjuez. Its fairly popular so should be easy to find in the 'classical' section of your music store, or as MP3. I like it and it helps me chill.