JohnnyD

Here we go again. If recent history tells us anything: Afghanistan: Harboring and supporting group who attacked US; Result: We dropped a lot of bombs and pretty much forgot about it. Iraq: They say they do not have WMDs. We say we are under imminent threat of attack from Iraqi WMDs; Result: We attack - no WMDs. Oops. Oh well, you sucked anyway. Iran: They admit to a WMD program and their intention to use them; Result: Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going. I don't see how the US has a lot of options here.

She should be shot because her views don't agree with yours?

You are SO right. All this tolerance and acceptance is blasphemous! My kids are taught in church to hate the fags, now this godless society wants to take that away too.

>Its hard out here to be a pimp. Am I the only one thinking "Well, no shit. Its illegal". Would it be equally hard out here to be a crack dealer? What about the white guy version: Its difficult in this corporate climate to embezzle funds and inflate profits using related party offshore hidden accounts.

I disagree, I thought I had made that obvious in earlier posts. You did. He's just screening out the parts that are too hard for him to rebut. - Am I not using enough swear words for you?

I disagree, I thought I had made that obvious in earlier posts. The protest came Thursday as administrators began investigating whether Overland High School teacher Jay Bennish violated a policy requiring balancing viewpoints in the classroom, Cherry Creek School District spokeswoman Tustin Amole said. - Not sure where you're going, but teaching outside the scope of the class is not the issue. It seems to be a good question though.

Um, holy shit. Are you really saying that in a classroom setting, in a free "democracy" (do you really still fall under the misconception that the U.S. is built to be a "democracy"?) any time the virtues of freedom and democracy are taught to students, we have to give equal time to the teaching of the virtues of fascism and totalitarianism?! What the fuck, dude?! He's been suspended. I have not heard that he's been fired. And does he have a right to voice his opinion without giving the other side, in an issue that doesn't relate to the subject he is paid to teach, even despite there being a clear rule in the district about giving alternate viewpoints? He's entitled to break that rule just because he's entitled to his opinion? No one ever said he was not entitled to have an opinion. Do you have a right to disturb moviegoers by standing up during a screening and starting to rant about your political opinions? No. But that doesn't mean that those who escort you out of the theater tried to take away your right to an opinion. I really wonder if you understand this. So far, it does not seem so. - The issue is not whether he was going outside the scope of the class. No one seems to be saying that. If they were, I think it would be a lot more cut and dried. The issue is equal representation of views. In essence, the people with the complaint are actually agreeing with this:

can't see the forest for the trees, huh? ok, one more time for the cheap seats: your assertion that it is unrealistic for a teacher to be unbiased and good at his/her job at the same time is absurd. in fact, one of the qualities that makes a good teacher is the ability to remain unbiased. [praying voice]please, let this sink in.[/praying voice] In a perfect world, that would be great. I think a majority of classes are really like that. That said, for every "left wing rant" I had to sit through in college, I sat through 10 "right wing rants". They were intended to provoke thought and none of those teachers should be disciplined for them. Sometimes, teachers need to take a position (mostly play devils's advocate) to get the students to think about their position. Sometimes just to hold their interest. Its just part of the learning process.

Fuck that! Back to the Circle of Hate!

Perfect example. If this teacher made a spirited speech about the virtues of freedom and democracy, what would your reaction be? Should he be placed on administrative leave and possibly terminated for his opinions? Of course not, you hold the same opinion. Most people are taking sides as to whether they agree or disagree with his opinion. I'm not. I'm saying he has a right to it and shouldn't lose his job because of it. If he wanted to say the opposite: that Bush's foreign policy will bring peace and stability to the middle east, I support that just as much.

it's probably accurate that you are ignorant and an extremely slow learner. it doesn't matter what you say, this is likely the realistic situation here. Probably so. I have explained how it is I believe you are either completely unrealistic or a hypocrite. Where have I gone wrong?

Of course. It is not something I would characterize as "spewing hate". ... If you are going to tell me Fox News would have this on if this was a spirited pro-Bush rant, I call bullshit. So now the issue is not the story but who reported the story. Who is making this an issue of bias, again? You are really good at calling people liars, but piss-poor at proving it. - The entire issue has to do with bias. That's the whole point. If the teacher had expressed the opposite political view, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

no, that's incorrect. the difference is that in the setting of being a HS history teacher, one needs to be impartial and needs to discuss issues with the goal of furthering knowledge, fostering rational thought, and instilling excitement about learning. that's not what this teacher did. he used his position to shape his students viewpoint to match his own. i would say that's wrong no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was. You disagree with the opinion? End of discussion. Nice. You are essentially calling tcnelson a liar, because he quite clearly stated that he would say it's wrong to spew vitriolic bias no matter what the opinion of the teacher is/was. Clearly he said that he would oppose even a conservative using his classroom as a bully pulpit, yet you are again accusing him of bias. I guess he should just give up trying to convince you, since you're already insulting him by calling him a liar, and clearly you won't believe him no matter how hard he protests. - Actually, I was calling him completely unrealistic, which I don't really believe to be true. I really believe if the teacher was making a pro-American foreign policy rant he would have absolutely no problem with that opinion. That would make him a hypocrite, which is probably more accurate.

Disappointing. To the Circle of Hate! Both of you!

That's not the issue at all, although it is a good point as to whether it is within the context of that class at all. No one seems to be saying that. The family doesn't have an issue with the fact that politics are being presented. They have an issue with the fact that they disagree with those politics. The only real problem with that is if they agreed with the opinion presented, the teacher would not be in this position. If the issue was merely whether the lecture had anything to do with the class, the reaction would be different. In that case, (if this was a class completely unrelated to politics) I would say the teacher was not doing his job and the recording would very obviously support that.

This didn't happen just yesterday. The school didn't react until the story started growing legs. The student's family is doing what exactly? Utter shame that it always has to come to right and left. What ever happened to right and wrong? Wait a minute. The kid thinks the teacher is full of shit (I heard the kids dad in an interview and I know he is the one who is really behind all this, not the kid). That means the kid has gone to class, done his lessons, gained knowledge, listened to the opposite point of view and concluded that the opinion of the teacher is the wrong opinion based on his own knowledge? BTFU! That sounds like the kid is getting an education. Again, not that anyone actually cares about the whole education thing, its obvious which side you fall on and its only because your opinion is like minded. That seems awfully hypocritical to me.

Really? What if it was a pro-Bush rant? Do you honestly believe anyone would say the teacher hasn't spent enough time being critical of American foreign policy? This is the third teacher in CO something like this has happened to in the last year or so. Not one of them was criticized for being "pro-America". Nothing wrong with being on either side. Saying you can't have an opinion is not only unrealistic, it prevents students from learning to form opinions as well.

Never been. Circle of Hate for me. Someday, the axis of evil!

Some are incapable because their hate incapacitates them. Not going to win any friends by taking gratuitous shots, but I guess it can be hard not to when you are constanly getting them yourself. However, there probably wouldn't be so many shots at the gay guy if the gay guy didn't take so many. Wait. I'm in the cycle of hate.

Wonder why you don't feel the love? Edit: If the cycle of hate is going to stop, it has to stop with you. You have to be bigger than that if you truly hope to influence people.

Not really. If his opinion was "acceptable" to the family that took the recording to the media, this would not be happening at all. Lots of spin on this, but it comes down to a guy who disagrees with a teacher's opinion. Shame really.

You and Mike are proposing something that not only impedes the learning process, but is completely impossible. You can't remove the human element from the class room without removing the humans. Bullshit - their job is to impart information, not opinion What information? Does someone have to decide that?

You and Mike are proposing something that not only impedes the learning process, but is completely impossible. You can't remove the human element from the class room without removing the humans. Bullshit - their job is to impart information, not opinion I give. I will immediately quit paying taxes to the school district because it is a total waste. There is absolutely nothing a human teacher can do that a lesson on a computer can't. I assume you homeschool your kids? Certainly, there is not a classroom on earth that is without any opinions (psst. this includes yours).

You and Mike are proposing something that not only impedes the learning process, but is completely impossible. You can't remove the human element from the class room without removing the humans.

So, are you saying this teacher is being unfairly attacked for his opinion, or are you actually saying that all teachers should be fired for bringing their personal opinions to the classroom. My guess is neither.