jdfreefly

I wouldn't mind a crw requirement, but that has not become as prevelant as the other 2 disciplines. You would grandfather people because it would be unfair to take people's licenses and ratings away. The same way they did not take away the D licenses of people with 300 jumps when they bumped the limit to 500. New qualifications would serve 2 purposes. The first being that I am very worried that flatflying will become a lost art. The other, is that I don't think it is hard enough from a skill perspective to get a D or C license. A D or C license should have requirements that people work for...not just be something that you fill out the paper work for when you have met the jump numbers. How many times have you heard on these forums that jump numbers are a poor measure of a skydiver's skill level? And requiring cuttaways is tricky because, for the most part, you can't work at that. Yes I know they have intentional cutaway rigs. And by the way, posing an argument against a progressive change because it isn't a big enough change, is not a good tactic for debate. A better tactic would be to explore how the sport would be hurt If the changes I suggested went into effect. Personally, I don't see how this could do anything but help us to turn out better skydivers. Maybe making this change would push us in a direction that would eventually lead to a crw requirement and all the disciplines this sport has. I guess my main gripe is that a D or a C license should reflect on a person's skill level, and it doesn't. Methane Freefly - got stink?

That is a decent point, but the C license already requires an 2 point 8 way. I don't feel that shows proficiency as much as 8 point 4 ways would. And my recommendation for the freefly requirement on the D was a 4 point 2 way. Methane Freefly - got stink?

There was a thread in the freefly forum about going straight to freeflying. This is something I don't agree with but while composing my response it got me thinking. Our license requirements are kind of weak. I posted that I would not mind seeing a requirement for 2 8 point 4 way belly jumps added to the C license requirement. Also, a similar requirement for freefly and belly added to the D. Obviously jumpers already holding a C and D license would be grandfathered in. Many people will argue that if all they ever want to do is freefly, why should they be required to do belly work? Also, if all someone wants to do is flatfly, why should they need to learn freeflying? My answer is, you don't have to learn either. You can go straight to your head or your belly and never look back. But if you want to get one of the higher licenses, and the priviledge and respect that go with it, you should make an attempt to be a well rounded skydiver. The D is supposed to be an expert skydiver. How can we consider someone an expert if they can't do an eight point 4 way belly jump and a 4 point 2 way freefly jump? I understand that this should not apply to people that have been in the sport for years. It was a different sport when they started and that is fine. But people that have entered in the last five have access to an incredible base of knowledge in both disciplines. To ignore either is, to me, a sign that they are not deserving of a license that claims them to be an "expert". I know this idea has been kicked around before, but I just felt like stiring the pot a little. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Best advice I ever got, was to go around and ask every Tandem instructor for their "holly shit" story. Every one who has been doing it for a while will have one. These can be invaluable lessons that others have learned that you should not have to re-learn the hard way! I have yet to hear one where the instructor was not the source of the problem. Usually due to a lack of following procedures, ie - not doing a proper handles check once the drogue was out. Mine was carelessness near the door: I tried to swing on the bar above the door of the skyvan, I didn't clear the floor and the rig hit hard as we dropped out of the plane. The rig was pushed up my back and whacked me in the back of the head. This slammed my face into the students head breaking my nose, giving me a concusion and nearly knocking me out cold. Not the most ideal conditions for an exit. Things were going gray and the thought entered my head that I was about to black out. A very loud voice in my head said, "NO DROGUE = NO MAIN!" . I pitched the drogue. Adrenalin kicked in and I did not black out. Aside from having a hard time reading my altimeter due to my tearing eyes and my goggles being coated with blood, the rest of the skydive was uneventfull. lesson: On any skydive the door is a very dangerous place, even more so on a tandem. Be safe and have fun. Methane Freefly - got stink?

One problem with people going straight to freefly, is that they never learn to belly fly. Once they get good at freeflying, they are even less likely to go out and take the time to become a good belly flier. The end result of this will be a generation of skydivers that does not know how to fly on their belly. It is allready happening. I've heard many of our local instructors complain about jumper's with a large number of jumps who want to geek a friend or family memeber's tandem. The geeker feels they are ready, hell, they may have enough skydives to take the tandem rating course. But when they get out of the plane, the instructor finds out that the jumper in question is so bad as to border on dangerous. SIDE NOTE: Let that be a lesson to you tandem instructors out there, never assume a person with 1000 jumps is sufficiently skilled to follow you out on a tandem! An even bigger concern for me, is that at some point, USPA's current group of instructors is going to retire. When they do, who is going to take their place? Keep in mind that AFF is the lifeblood of our sport. When I went to get my coach rating and my tandem rating I spent some time on my belly just to brush up on the skills I had not used in a long time. I was surprised to find out just how bad I was, and I used to belly fly exclusively at one point. What will it be like for people who haven't done it since theye got their A license? I would not mind seeing a requirement added to the C license that required one or even two 8 point 4 ways ON THE BELLY and see it strictly enforced. Of course I would also like to see a belly flying and freeflying formation requirement on the D. Probably not a popular idea, but my ideas are rarely popular. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Here's a stat for you Flyers:7 Leafs: 2 I love that they threw beer on Belfour during the hat trick celebration. I would guess that it was Sweetman throwing the beer, but she would never waste good beer like that....unless it was miller lite. Methane Freefly - got stink?

If you think you are disgusted know, wait until the family of the dead boy sues the car owner. Methane Freefly - got stink?

I usually head out Friday night or early Saturday morning. I could probably swing you a ride then. I can't make any guarantees on the ride back but once you get to the dz you should be able to find a ride back to philly sunday morning no problem. Send me an email to my dropzone.com address with you phone number and other info. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Chuck, Are you and Stephen set for somewhere to stay and catch a shower etc.? I know you don't give a crap right now but if you get to a point where you need somewhere to crash and get cleaned up let me or any of the others from crosskeys know and we will take care of it. This goes for anyone else too. Methane Freefly - got stink?

I have learned that you can fit 18 people on a 2 person glofcart...but only at the world freefall convention, and the guys who rented the cart will not find you any where near amusing as you find yourself. I have also learned that if it isn't gear, and you aren't ready to see it, burned, blown up, or otherwise destroyed, do not bring it to a dz. Especially not if the weather is questionable. And finally, never challenge Mike Skeffington to a drinking contest. Methane Freefly - got stink?

HOLY SHIT!!!!! DUDE!!! That is a h..h..h..he...he....he...hell...hell...hell of a hottie in that second pic! Methane Freefly - got stink?

I know I am going a little off topic but others have already done it...so I am going to as well. People keep trying to give a skydiving scenario that is comprable but you can't because in skydiving you can't get back in the airplane once you get out. In scuba, you can cut the dive short and head to the surface. Here is a scenario for the dive: The student is having a freak out. A REAL FREAK OUT. The kind where The first instructor communicates to the second that he would like some help getting this dude back to the surface. The second instructor signals to the other diver that they are ALL 4 going back to the surface. The uncurrent diver refuses and signals for them to go and leave him behind. As best they can they attempt an underwatter argument. The second instructor doesn't like it, but with a freaking out newbie he doesn't have much of a choice but to leave his buddy behind and assist the other instructor. The now solo diver gets himself in trouble and dies. In this scenario, I don't think I would find the instructors negligent unless the makeup of the dive, 2 instuctors, 1 student and 1 uncurrent diver, breaks some rule in scuba instruction that I am unaware of. I admit, this is complete speculation on my part, but after reading the story about the incident, it was the most likely scenario I could come up with. Why would both instructors go with the troubled student unless there was some bigger issue than the article gives us? I don't see how you could apply a scenario like that to skydiving. Methane Freefly - got stink?

I know Bill Ottley and I know Bill Booth. I never pass up a chance to say hi to either of them if I see them. That is not to say that either of them would know me from any of the other thousands of new jumpers in this sport since they made their firsts jumps, but I know who they are and I try to give them their due respect. But the reason I know who they are, is because of some of the older jumpers from my home DZ and the fact that I have actually met these men in person. I have never met Bob Sinclaire and if he came up to me and started asking questions about our tandem operation, I could see mistakenly pointing him to the manifest window. Granted, the Bill Booth scenario is a little hard to believe given his extraordinary appearance. Don't go blaming the young'ns so fast! It may be that they don't have the proper tutelage. I was fortunate to encouter older skydivers, like Elaine Demi, who made sure I was aware not only of who Ottley is, but also the contributions he has made to our sport. Not everyone has access to oldtimers like that. Oh shit! When Elaine hears I called her "older" and an "old timer" she is going to rip my balls off and feed them to me! Any way, Bill is received enthusiasticly every time he comes to crosskeys. If you can just get him talking, he has some great stories....ever heard the one about Jackie O's coming out party? Methane Freefly - got stink?

I nearly watched a guy goin due to a bent pin. He didn't give up and eventually got his reserve out. I would say replace it. But hey, I'm not a rigger so what do I know? Methane Freefly - got stink?

The 2004 season is starting and I just wanted to list some things that people should try to remember: 1. You are probably not as current as you should be. After a long and bitter winter, many of us are blowing the dust off our rigs. No need to go big just yet. Ease yourself into the season until you get your swoop legs back! 2. You might weigh more now than you did last time you jumped. People often underestimate this factor. If you were highly loading your canopy last season, you may be loading it more know. An extra 10-15 pounds on 2.x loaded canopy will make a difference. 3. You aren't the only one his uncurrent. Keep your eyes open under canopy. The only canopy collision we had last year occurred at the start of the season. Overall, if you have been dormant for a while...TAKE IT EASY. Start the season off with a couple hop and pops and run through some canopy survival exercises. The summer will be a lot less fun watching it from a wheelchair. Methane Freefly - got stink?

The 2004 season is starting and I just wanted to list some things that people should try to remember: 1. You are probably not as current as you should be. After a long and bitter winter, many of us are blowing the dust off our rigs. No need to go big just yet. Ease yourself into the season until you get your swoop legs back! 2. You might weigh more now than you did last time you jumped. People often underestimate this factor. If you were highly loading your canopy last season, you may be loading it more know. An extra 10-15 pounds on 2.x loaded canopy will make a difference. 3. You aren't the only one his uncurrent. Keep your eyes open under canopy. The only canopy collision we had last year occurred at the start of the season. Overall, if you have been dormant for a while...TAKE IT EASY. Start the season off with a couple hop and pops and run through some canopy survival exercises. The summer will be a lot less fun watching it from a wheelchair. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Where's Heath? Methane Freefly - got stink?

I am spoiled. I jump at a dz where those people are basically shunned. Some of them learn and then work their ass off to regain the respect they lost for their behavior. Others never learn. Mistakes are one thing, but a trend of poor decisions indicates something else. Hey, I once kicked freeflybella in the head. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Our team is smart.....like tractor! Methane Freefly - got stink?

NICE!!!! I see a couple of Methane cameos added in! We be stinkin it up all season at x-keys! Come on up for one of the long weekends....it will probably rain the whole time...which means we can all be drunk by noon and start blowin shit up by 1 If not, I'll see you guys at nationals. Assuming nothing gets in our way between now and then, we will be embarassing ourselves in the open class. Methane Freefly - got stink?

That video seems to be missing something..... hm.... what could it be..... I know, METHANE!!!!!! nice shots though, even without the brown cloud of death! Methane Freefly - got stink?

sorry, I suck at using computers... I did not realize I had to actually upload it Methane Freefly - got stink?

Okay, I copied Bill's spreadsheet and modified it so you can do it either way, enter all the relevant data in one, including time between groups and it will tell you how much separation that produces(thanks Bill). The second one you enter all the relevant data including the desired amount of separation and it will tell you how many seconds to allow between exits. Combine that with Kallend's estimates on required separation for different sized groups and we nearly have everything we need for a great first draft. Once again though, I would like to make something that takes a few more things into account..see my original post...but this is a great starting point. Do you guys feel that this is good enough? I guess my question is this: The spreadsheet really doesn't take into acount how much push is created by the wind during freefall and how that effects groups falling at different speeds. Is that so small as to have an insignificant effect on these formulas? Does that assume people put in conservative numbers...obviously someone trying to use this to put groups so close as to only allow a 100 foot margine for error will receive bad results. Bill? Kallend? Thanks again for the useful input. Methane Freefly - got stink?

Thanks to Kallend and Bill for actually answering the question....on a side note, Tom , that is a great article. Maybe I can print out about 20 copies and scatter them around the dz on safety day.... I fully understand that there is no silver bullet that will give us an absolute answer to life the universe and everything....However, we should be able to come up with something that will work in 99 percent of the cases involved. Hopefully, Bill's formulas and Kallend's can combine to create that solution. Then from now on, when someone mentions the 45 degree rule, they can be pointed to this. I know some will still insist that they are right and all the good sience in the world can't compete with blind devotion to myth. I wish the world wasn't that way, but as my grand papy always said, "Why don't you wish in one hand, and crap in the other, then tell me what you have." Methane Freefly - got stink?

eames - thanks for the reply....I love these forums! Out of 22 posts, only 2 were actually a response to the original question and they were both by the same guy! Way to go dude! You just got 5 points on the Daless respect-o-meter! In reply to your formula, I am actually looking for something complex. I want to come up with something that will work no matter what direction or magnitude the wind is blowing, what direction or magnitude the airplane is moving...the only exception should be the fact that for a 16 way, you need to leave more time. I was really hoping people like Winsor and Kallend would pipe up. I figure Kallend's simulation is allready half way there...it's only problem is it makes too many assumptions. I would like to come up with something that has as few assumptions as possible and outputs a useable result - ie "give 6 seconds between groups"..etc. I was really hoping, due to the nature of my request, the "45 degree" therom would not rear its ugly head in this thread....I am obviously way too much of an optimist. Methane Freefly - got stink?