maadmax

The timing and geography is all wrong. Make no real sense You could be right, but for me the timing and the placement was perfect. I'd seriously like to know why you think that, please. Why choose a time where commincations wre extremely primative... why not wait 2000 years (a blink in the duration of the Human Race) - when He could touch EVERYONE on Earth He came at the time of Gods choosing and according to the prophecy of Daniel 9:20-27 & Micah 5:2. Which is how the Magi knew when and where Jesus would be born, Matt 2:1-11 . From the beginning of His ministry until now , the message of Jesus has spread around the world. I personally have benefited from studying the lives of those who have found God through Jesus Christ during the past 2000 years. ...

He was and is concerned about every person that has lived on this planet. I am as interested as anybody in how it will all finally work out. But one thing I am certain of is that He will not hold people responsible for what they were not given. The Jews were the people He chose to disseminate His message for a time and through whom He would send His Son. Book/chapter/verse? Gods Will is that all would know Him, II Peter 3:9 Everyone has a chance to know of God, Romans 1:20-25 God seeks out those who are receptive to Him, II Chronicles 16:9 There are people mentioned in the Bible who found God prior to the existence of Jews or Christians. Jesus would come from the House of David, Matthew 1:1, Isiah 7:14

--Excluding the other 180 million world inhabitants not within the Roman sphere of influence? Just curious about this. Why did Abraham's God not care about the rest of the world? If all humans are as equally capable of a place in his heaven then why was he historically so selective of the Jewish people? He was and is concerned about every person that has lived on this planet. I am as interested as anybody in how it will all finally work out. But one thing I am certain of is that He will not hold people responsible for what they were not given. The Jews were the people He chose to disseminate His message for a time and through whom He would send His Son. ...

-- And really, when you think about it, just how sick is that? Do you really think that your god is not only the ultimate egotist, but that it's a good thing? Yep, it is a good thing!! As one in a compromised position I can't be much of a chooser. So therefore how ever God wishes to provide a means of salvation I will be humbly appreciative and thankful.

Mabe I am a bit hazy on this one, but does not the phrase "He gave his only begotten son" infer that his son is gone forever. If Jesus "died for all of our sins" why is he still around? sounds like double talk. Not exactly, the human race was caught in a spiritual dead end and needed help getting out. God sent His only begotten Son to remove the sin barrier and show us the way back to God. ...

--So why did he wait so long (since the begin of the Human race)? and why that particular time in history (no where near the worst time of behaviour). and why that partricular dead end part of te Mediteranian? Most of the surface of the Earth was not even known about then.. So the 'Word' could not be spread The timing and geography is all wrong. Make no real sense. You could be right, but for me the timing and the placement was perfect. ...

Jesus fucking Christ I really enjoy this forum because it presents a glimpse into where people find their motivation and purpose for life at a very basic level. So far the leading contenders are anger and hate on one side and love and compassion on the other. ...

-- A fool will believe anything you tell them. An intelligent person will weigh the evidence. -- Suppose there is a God who is watching us and choosing which souls of the deceased to bring to heaven, ..... .... Therefore, only such people can be sufficiently moral and trustworthy to deserve a place in heaven — unless god wishes to fill heaven with the morally lazy, irresponsible, or untrustworthy. It is actually much simpler than you think. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that who ever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." Our good & moral works will never cut it. HAVE A WONDERFUL CHRISTMAS!!!!! ...

All we can do is see what we have created, because no god chooses to reveal him/herself in a way that can be validated by any objective method. Yes, you are correct. But that handicap does not have to limit our pursuit of metaphysical/spiritual matters. The objective scientific method is great for things concerning leptons, hadrons, and fundamental forces. But it is pitifully inadequate when used to discern the intent of the mind. ...

God didnt make salvation easy to find. He speaks of that in the parables of the pearl and the treasure. So your god only wanted the smartest to be saved? Why then it created so many stupid people, who apparently see hundreds of different ways to be saved? It is not limited to the intelligent, otherwise you would already have it all figured it out and be saved. It is a matter of seeking God with humility. The difficulty comes from our inability to set aside our pride and arrogance so that we can see God as He is, not as we have created him. ...

The interesting thing about this whole discussion is it may have shown me why it is so hard to debate religion. Athiests argue the existence of supreme being(s) whereas religious people only care about their belief in them. It seems to me, the actually existence of such a being(s) is seemingly inconsequential in their minds. To them, it's their belief that makes them real which in a way sort of does to them. My understanding of God is that He created us with a need to search for Truth and has given us the ability to find it. Whether we are unraveling His physical creation through scientific study or trying to work out the mysteries of His love. Man made religions, as you say, creates a belief system and then reshapes god into the image of their dogma. Spiritual communion with God is a very personal experience, you either grasp the depth of your need and allow God to fill it or you reject Him and attempt to fill it yourself. ...

I have never needed to resort to a supernatural explanation for anything I've observed in the world, or in the skies. Neither have I in my outward observations, as long as I don't look to close. But look within, the mystery of what makes you, you is quite metaphysical.

Not in the prison I worked in or any I've heard of. Sex, drugs, and >alcohol all were forbidden, but all were prevalent. Well, that's sorta the point. You have known and enforced rules, and known (and often experienced) consequences. Yet all those things were prevalent. I think there's something in human nature that just wants to buck the system no matter what the later cost. I think it's more working the system than anything. "Will I get caught?" is usually the main factor followed by "If caught, what's the consequence?" With an all seeing all knowing entity, one would always be caught breaking a "rule" so the consequence of the violation would be the only factor. I am really enjoying your conversation. The plot is straight out of the book of Revelations, without all of the symbolism. ...

--What are they, then? The need to love and be loved, unselfishly, for starters. And for many, the need to be healed and restored to a pure state of mind. External phenomena would handicap the faith process necessary to allow God use of His power and presence to fulfill those needs --Bam, the all too predictable get out of jail free card! "God can't do anything you won't let him do..." Well, since he's apparently the master of the bloody universe I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to be stopping him from doing any damn thing he wanted with me. So why is nothing happening? Is it that I'm more powerful than the galactic overlord, or is there just nothing there? In our relationship and restoration with God, He requires our involvement to be of our own choosing. And you are correct, the Christian message is a get out of jail free card. Christ has neutralized the penalty of our sin. External phenomena could handicap our relationship with God by replacing faith in God , with fear of God. Without faith, love and trust is impossible. We do have a choice, a system of love and trust based on faith proclaimed by Christ , or a fear based system proclaimed by the ruler of this world. ...

Explain. I was just the one that found the comment intriguing and worth further discussion simply due to its uniqueness. Hopefully the OP will elaborate.

My, what an interesting world you have created for yourself to live in. I have to admit the video was hilarious.

But in most cases they don't even need to do that. Most Christians do not read the Bible, and know at best a few quotes hand-picked by their priests and ministers. Well shucks, either Jesus is a liar or your word bite interpretation of the Bible is incorrect. Those who reject God never seem to need much to justify their decision. ...

Avoiding the point does not answer a question. The question brought a point, it was that in biblical times, according to the bible, god frequently presented himself physically to the world, and now, nothing. Its not a coincidence, men use this trait all the time, taking advantage of a situation when it is relevant, and ceasing the activity when people know better. Making god present himself physically in a time where the world was intellectually numb to modern ideas of science, was a genius idea for someone trying to promote the bible, I mean, the people of that day and age didn't know any better, you could have told them anything and they would have believed it. Of course these days you never hear anyone, ever say they saw an ocean split in two, or water turn into wine, or someone walk on water etc..because people know better. Its not a coincidence, we just happened to wise up a bit. I have said it before, and I will say it again, as man progresses through the ages, and man becomes more technologically advanced, there will be no need for a god, nothing a god used to be needed to explain, will need explaining anymore. -Evo As a seeker of spiritual Truth & a lover of God, the proof I seek is not the proof you seek. The physical manifestation of God is not necessary and would actually be a detriment. The proof I seek is the restoration of my soul and mind to the love and grace of God. God has more than proved Himself to me and to all of the others who have become receptive to His voice. The more man changes through the ages the more he stays the same, we will always need God. Knowledge will never take the place of God's love, silly rabbit. ...

I find it funny - and a little odd - that the athiests know more about religious holidays than many of the believers do. Maybe it has something to do with valuing facts over dogma. You make your historical comments like they have some significance. Who is not aware of the historical evolution of December 25th from its original celebration of Mithras and other pagan rituals to it present day celebration of the Birth of Christ. As mentioned earlier, for the first 313 years after the birth of Christ, Christmas was not even observed. In our culture it is merely a day picked by the Roman Emperor Constantine to show respect for Jesus Christ. You can observe it by doing the bah humbug chant or by reflecting on the Glory of God.

, listen to me.** **Choose your words carefully, choose what you say** **Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS ,* *not Happy Holiday !** *Please, all Christians join together and* *wish everyone you meet* *MERRY CHRISTMAS* *Christ is The Reason˘ for the Christ-mas Season!* ++++++ 1 ! I enjoyed that, Thanks.

If that is true, then sure, no problem. That would have made things a lot easier. But in my youth I became increasingly aware of an undiscovered and undeveloped part of my psyche that needed to be addressed. Looking back , I now realize it was a God consciousness that was causing an intense desire to know God. After many years and one hell of a ride, my pursuit of spiritual Truth and relationship with God has become my most valued possession. I am glad I did not settle for less.

--I agree it is a bit far fecthed to understand what it would mean to be all knowing and all powerful, but I can guess. Don't use the complexity of your god to explain why we can't understand what he is doing. If that was the case, then I would tell you not to worry about gravity, it is much to complex an idea for us to investigate. I will not hide behind complexity as my defense, but I will plead ignorance to the big comprehensive picture of reality. All I can possibly know now is miniscule. But the Bible says that someday we will know in full. And like the force generated by gravity, the force emanating from God is known by its characteristics. --I can tell you, I would not make another mistake in my entire life, My point exactly, God does things for a reason, He doesn't make mistakes. Things that appear imperfect will become perfect when viewed with wisdom and understanding. --The presence or absence of a creative super-intelligence is unequivocally a scientific question, even if it not in practice- or not yet- a decided one." If I read you correctly, I couldn't agree more. The God I know is the God of science. Science is His creation. He has given us the ability to understand Him both physically and spiritually. And as the Truth of each is unraveled, our opinions on how things should be have no bearing on what is. ... -Evo

I did, how else can you explain an all knowing and supposedly loving being, not only allowing, but creating a hell, and again, not only allowing but creating a creation he knew would screw up? This reminds me of a quote I absolutely love. ""We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." -- Gene Roddenberry Quote You could have a point, if you like God, were all-knowing & all-powerful. As it is, you are probably in the dark like the rest of us. One thing is for certain, the world is full of faulty humans. And we are either destined to the waste bin of history, or we can strive for perfection through God and coexist with God in eternity. Excuse me for disagreeing with you, but I bet God has a better handle on what is best for His creation, no matter how it may seem to us. ...

Only in death?? Am I already dead while enjoying the early sun light and the cold breath of a beautiful December morning? I feel alive - can't tell you, how much! - , that's a fact for me. Sorry, cannot follow you. Physical Death - Separation of the Soul/Spirit from the body. Spiritual Death - Separation of the Soul/Spirit from God. Spiritual Life - Restoration and unity with God. ...

I wonder, how does your belief system cope with the existence of fully functional happy healthy and fulfilled people who have no religious beliefs? According to your religion, I cannot exist. But I do anyway. What do you say to that? -B I say Great!!!! That is wonderful, and you are to be admired and envied. Someday when there is an accounting of what you did with your life, you will be able to present a convincing defense. Other people, myself included, have failed to meet Gods standard of perfection. And we are grateful to have the just compensations for our deeds forgiven. Those of us who are helpless and hopeless have been given the privilege of addressing God, and start each day washed clean with an unlimited number of second chances. ...